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The 7 - Site Bashing - The Solution to Everything...
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oldschoolhero
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#21 Posted on 2.2.03 0242.26
Reposted on: 2.2.10 0243.15
"This thread is screaming for an oldschoolhero counter-argument."

See Excalibur's reply. you want some leeway with your constant bitching, try noticing the good once in a while. That is all.
And Venom, regarding generalisations: Pot. Kettle. Black. If I like something, I'll sing it's praises. if I hate something, I won't. If I REALLY hate something, I'll make a point of mentioning it to share my hatred. Am I part of the Positive Police? if so, I'll get my DDP sig back. I like me-You like me-And I'll help-you-like-you!

Of course, I really should know better than to reply to this and probably should've taken Z's cue....


(edited by oldschoolhero on 2.2.03 0051)
Cerebus
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#22 Posted on 2.2.03 2121.34
Reposted on: 2.2.10 2126.10

    Originally posted by AngryJohnny
    Now if someone were to bitch about you reasonably stating something about the bitching about the anti-bitching about the bitching would the universe implode? I think so.


My head hurts, mommy, I wanna go home.
dMr
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#23 Posted on 3.2.03 1153.00
Reposted on: 3.2.10 1159.02

    Originally posted by AngryJohnny

      Now if someone were to bitch about you reasonably stating something about the bitching about the anti-bitching about the bitching would the universe implode?


    Not the universe, just my head....

    Personally I draw a line between constructive criticism and outright bitching. If you've got a problem with an aspect of the WWE then this strikes me as a pretty appropriate place to mention it, and suggest how things could get better.

    Its when this descends into the usual crap that everything thats wrong in wrestling is the sole responsibility of HHH, the Raw bookers (no they arent one and the same), the Undertaker and Hulk Hogan, while all that is good stems from angles involving Jericho, Anlge and Benoit it gets pretty shit boring.

    I, along with the huge majority of wrestling fans I know think that Raw has improved greatly over the past 3 months and yet people still come here complaining about the one thing that isnt done well rather than praise the positive aspects. Thats just silly.
TheCow
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#24 Posted on 3.2.03 1212.26
Reposted on: 3.2.10 1214.05
What I hate on message boards are jumps in logic.

(Now how's that for dramatic irony?)

(And I also agree with dMr's sentiments, btw. The reason I'm not on the Wrestling board much, actually.)
Net Hack Slasher
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#25 Posted on 3.2.03 1622.44
Reposted on: 3.2.10 1626.53
I've seen this going on for a while, and I do think the original poster has a point.

Look I agree with the other side, I also get really annoyed when I see Torch feedback people giving 0s and 1s on every show. I also think if you hate wrestling, hate the McMahon's personally, hate the industry, hate the majority of performers personally and how they perform in the ring. You should Get the F out... One example that pissed me off was listening to this awful wrestling radio show who are hosted by a couple of Meltzer clones (who's actually part of his group) and one of the host said "Oh if I didn't have to do this job, I think I would quit watching this a long time ago". And that kind of comment is pathetic.

The thing is I don't see that in this board, I hate to kiss wiener (eek). This is my favorite place, I think it has great quantity and quality of posts and posters. There are some that I totally agree, and a couple that I might necessary not care for (but still listen), there's only one regular poster that annoys me and it's not what he says but he's playing a gimmick trying to prove a point. Unfortunately 85% of the people are not getting it, the other 15% get it but think it's a waste of time and should just say what he feels instead of trying to prove a point with a character... If you think this board the majority are closeminded idiots maybe you should leave here, and that would be a shame because like I said one of the best things about this board is the diverse opinions, and as long as you're not just trying to be different and have an actual belief in what you think that's cool.

I don't see people here hating wrestling, they might not like an individual or a push, but I hardly sense people hate wrestling. I think that's where the confusion starts. Some get very uptight when HHH is bashed and thinking you hate wrestling as a whole. It's not that these people hate wrestling they just find HHH to be very boring. The thing is HHH fans, you are in the minority, the best you could do is state your case in why you like him and think his angle is good. Remember your Username is the same size as everyone elses here on the board and your opinion is seen as everyone elses... Look I'm betting all of us were one time or another on the other side of popular opinion, I know I have and at times I finally gave in and admit the IWC was correct, and there were other times I didn't and I still think they are wrong

One example for me is Jeff Hardy, I stayed on this guys bandwagon while every other IWC member was jumping off. As for IWC if I wasn't the last one in the bandwagon I was sitting in the passengers seat, I gave him all the excuses "He's high risk wrestlers, he's allowed to make more mistakes". But after awhile I can't deny that he looked messed up physically and performance wise. And I went and agreed with what the majority is saying because they were right. I'm still a fan of his somewhat, and he had 2 decent matches in a row these last 2 weeks and I'm starting to sing his praises and saying "Hey might have turned the corner, maybe a heel turn was the think to spark him".

The other example was during the Summer and Trish/Molly intergender matches. I loved them, I thought Trish/Bubba had some of the best chemistry out there, I just adore seeing Molly in the ring and her teaming with Regal or Show or Nowinski, I thought all those intergender matches on Raw were fun, the FatAss angle sucked but the performances were great... But every week the Torch had it as "worst match of the night because it's another boring intergender match" and even on here it was skipped or looked as blah another intergender match. Me along with a couple of other sang the praises of the match and effort but were in the minority on the most part. And that's fine, I still think those matches were fun but if the majority on here didn't, there's nothing you can do but try to make your point and move on.

One thing I don't understand is the anger in being in the minority and defending HHH because others don't like him. I'll use an example of going to see Minority Report, I liked it, my 3 friends hated it, didn't get it at all. I tried to explain it, no sell. They thought it was crap. What can I do, I actually happy that I spend 2 hours enjoying the movie, tough for them... I understand people who don't like HHH being angry because the show they like he's always top dog. But if you're a fan of his you should be on cloud 9, he's getting a year plus push with no end in sight. You guys really should be happier.

Finally, as for the amount of HHH posts. I think that the higher and more important position you are on the card the more reaction negative or positive you get on here. This isn't a suprise, I'll use Torrie/Al/Dawn as an example, if they were pushed as the 4th or even 3rd focused feud on SD, it might get some criticism on the SD recap thread, maybe a thread or 2 on how bad it is but when it became the MAIN storyline that's when all hell broke loose... Same with HHH if he's not the World champ figure head of the entire show, he wouldn't be getting such attention, but he is so the attention (negative or positive) on here shouldn't be surprising at all. Rikish is a much boring character and a less fun wrestler for me but doesn't get the negativity because he's 8th or 9th wrestler on the totem poll for SD.

Whew I got all my HHH wienerville issues out in one post,

oldschoolhero
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#26 Posted on 3.2.03 1712.59
Reposted on: 3.2.10 1713.20
Good pints all, NetHack. I just have to disagree with you. There ARE people that ignore the positives in favour of the negatives. There ARE people who refuse to accept it when things are better. And there ARE people who harp on and on and on ad nauseum with their own little gags and their own little theories, who choose to disregard anything but their opinion.

I'll happily sit and debate issues. I'll admit when I hate something. Right now, I dislike HHH intensely. Yet somehow I find a way to concentrate on the positives. And yes, occasionally I do get on other posters' cases; that's usually because I feel that they're more fans of whatever smart-alecky comment they can fire out there than the wrestling that they're supposedly commenting on. I also find hyperbole and revisionist history rather annoying; you have an argument, lay it out with facts rather than twisting things. I dunno, maybe it's because I debate things as part of my everyday life; I like well-ordered, structured arguments rather than yet another unfunny "HHH Holds Down X" comment, or "Of course, knowing WWE, Steiner will win the belt and hold for the next six months". Oh, and the self-righteousness. Can't forget about that. "That was the WORST show I've ever watched, and I CANNOT believe they woul insult MY intelligence with such AWFUL AWFUl television. FUCK YOU WWE, FUCK YOU RIGHT IN THE EAR." With things like that I usually try and play the voice of reason; that, of course, leads to me being denegrated for not sharing the overblown views of some. But hey, it's a free country.

Of course, if I'm your mysterious gimmick poster then you've probably ignored everything I've just said. ;)
The 5th Horseman
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#27 Posted on 3.2.03 1844.49
Reposted on: 3.2.10 1845.42

    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    Whew I got all my HHH wienerville issues out in one post


I tend to agree with almost all of your issues. I especially agree with the part about a lot of the complaining coming from people that still love wrestling but, they are just frustrated that the show isn't up to the level of the perceived potential. I know I fit that category. I still enjoy both Raw and SmackDown (and I watch both of them all the way through every week) but, I think both (especially Raw) could, and should, be better. Unfortunately, I also think oldschoolhero is right that some (a very small minority) appear to only watch the shows so they can look for the negatives to complain about. I'm definitely not shy about mentioning what I perceive as negatives but, I'll also point out what I liked. I'd also like to point out that just because some people only point out what they don't like, it doesn't necessarily mean they belong to the group that's only looking for the negative. It may just mean that they use this board as a way to vent about what they don't like. That's fine, IMHO. Some people just like to get that stuff off their chest.

I also vehemently agree that one of the great things about Wienerville is the variety of opinion and the posters that express those opinions. I used to only read CRZ's recaps but, since CRZ stopped the recapping game, this is the only wrestling site I visit to fulfill my internet wrestling jones and the main reason is because of the posters and the different opinions expressed here.

Which leads me to.......


    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Of course, if I'm your mysterious gimmick poster then you've probably ignored everything I've just said. ;)


Excuse me, did you say something? Just kidding, man. Actually, I enjoy your posts. Even though I often disagree with you (I also agree with you plenty of times), at least you present your opinion in a way that I can see where your thought process is and I can see your side, even if I disagree. And, like you, I enjoy a good debate. Of course, like with most debates, people need to realize that you just aren't going to change very many people's opinions so, you present your opinion, you listen to the other side, and you'll usually have to just respect the other point of view and agree to disagree. That's where the problem often lies on message boards, and in life. Some people just don't, or can't, accept that others have a different point of view and it's not going to change.
emma
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#28 Posted on 3.2.03 1907.08
Reposted on: 3.2.10 1907.25
NHS, I agree with much of what you said. And I particularly appreciate that you (did & generally do) think through what you have to say, & present it in a thoughtful way.

I wanted to present a little of my perspective on one of the topics you touched on ...


    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    One thing I don't understand is the anger in being in the minority and defending HHH because others don't like him. I'll use an example of going to see Minority Report, I liked it, my 3 friends hated it, didn't get it at all. I tried to explain it, no sell. They thought it was crap. What can I do, I actually happy that I spend 2 hours enjoying the movie, tough for them... I understand people who don't like HHH being angry because the show they like he's always top dog. But if you're a fan of his you should be on cloud 9, he's getting a year plus push with no end in sight. You guys really should be happier.
Allow me to expand on that example. You get together with your 3 buddies the next weekend. What movie should we go see? “So long as its not that crappy Minority Report again.” “Yeah, that thing really was the drizzling shits.” “Steven Spielberg is just so lame – he hasn’t been involved in a decent movie since 2000.” The biggest asshole of all tosses in, “Yeah, its too bad he wasn’t on Shindler’s List.” And on they go. You finally get them back to talking about what movie to see tonight. Y’all have a fine drive over to the theatre, where there’s a poster for Minority Report. “God that thing sucked. That was 2 hours of my life down the drain.” To people in line: “Hey, Minority Report was the worst thing ever. Anybody stupid enough to see it must be a real moron.” “Tom Cruise is such a loser. He’s only where he is today because he slept with Nicole Kidman.” “Nobody wants to see him – get him out of Hollywood.” And on they go.

Now these are otherwise good guys – you enjoy their sense of humour (if you can get them off that one topic) & their company. And at least a couple of them are the kinds of guys that’ll help you move your fold-out couch from one upstairs apartment to another. So you try all the various social strategies to say, “OK guys, I’ve heard it, that’s enough. Give it a break.” But that just makes things worse. Pretty soon, if somebody says the word “minority” or “report”, or you see anything about any of the actors in the movie, or any other loose association to it, the 3 of them are all off on an hour of “Minority Report bashing”.

Weeks & months start to turn into years, & they’re not getting tired of it. Even though they’ve said everything possible on the subject dozens of times, its become a social ritual. But the continuing undertone of “if you liked it, then you’re an idiot” still comes through every time they do it. You might just end up with a little anger (or frustration, annoyance, sensitivity, hurt, or whatever) about the whole subject, which clearly has become a completely different thing than “I liked the movie & you didn’t”.

That's the way it feels to me at least.
Dr Unlikely
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#29 Posted on 4.2.03 1008.00
Reposted on: 4.2.10 1011.59
At the same time, you probably wouldn't ask those friends to sit down and have specific conversations where they should only say good things about Minority Report. Nor would you follow them around all the time and say they hate all movies, even though they clearly rave about "SmackDown: The Movie" every week.

I think that's where the impasse on the subject comes in - there's an attitude with some people that by not liking one specific thing (or any one thing) in the WWE, they irrationally hate everything. But that stance is ignoring the generally positive and sometimes downright glowing talk that SmackDown generates on a nearly weekly basis. Sure, there are a handful of people who are negative about every aspect, but there are an equally vocal handful of people who seem to take any issue with something that happened on Raw or SmackDown as a personal affront and chide everybody as being perpetually negative, as if the SmackDown praise doesn't exist. It's these two groups on opposite ends that just like to stir each other up that turn everything into endless backs-and-forths. S

o either learn who does the same thing every week and ignore them or, constructively, just take things on a case by case basis so maybe you can admit that, yes, perhaps this wrestler really is consistently bringing the show to a halt with boring interviews and perhaps a particular show was particularly devoid of matches and maybe that really was a pretty stupid segment - or that was a phenomenal match and that guy is consistently entertaining.
asteroidboy
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#30 Posted on 4.2.03 1038.38
Reposted on: 4.2.10 1038.39
Re: the OP. You could make the same argument for the current U.S. administration!


As for the WWE, it never ceases to amaze me how they go to lengths to denigrate and ridicule their most passionate group of fans. I think it's coming back to haunt them.
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