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cranlsn
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#1 Posted on 22.1.03 2137.45
Reposted on: 22.1.10 2139.22
California Town Condemns Cat Declawing

So the PETA freaks that are happy about this don't realize that more & more cats will end up euthanized at the Humane Society since a cat with claws is much less adoptible?

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EddieBurkett
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#2 Posted on 22.1.03 2327.55
Reposted on: 22.1.10 2329.02
Not only that, but what about the small rodents and birds that will wind up as playthings for the cats? Doesn't PETA care about them???
Zeruel
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#3 Posted on 23.1.03 0042.35
Reposted on: 23.1.10 0042.35

    Originally posted by cranlsn
    California Town Condemns Cat Declawing

    So the PETA freaks that are happy about this don't realize that more & more cats will end up euthanized at the Humane Society since a cat with claws is much less adoptible?




how would you like the last joints in each of your fingers and toes clipped off?

i hate people who declaw their cats. if you don't like their scratching behavior, get them a scratching post coated in catnip or give them up.

both of my girls have their claws and i haven't had any scratching problems ever, and i've had them since they were 4 months old back in august 98.
J. Kyle
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Y!:
#4 Posted on 23.1.03 0135.28
Reposted on: 23.1.10 0135.42

    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    Not only that, but what about the small rodents and birds that will wind up as playthings for the cats? Doesn't PETA care about them???
Law of environmentalis states that a cute animal is a bigger priority than an ugly one.

Cats>Rodents

Ever heard someone follow the "tuna nets kill dolphins" speech with "poor bastard manatees keep running into propelors?" Didn't think so.
Pool-Boy
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#5 Posted on 23.1.03 0138.11
Reposted on: 23.1.10 0139.02
I gotta say that I am -in general - not a fan of PETA, but they do have a point here. Declawing a cat is just cruel, and plain lazy on the part of the owner who does this. It is akin to wiring the jaw of a dog shut, just because it chewed your book. You can TRAIN a cat not to claw things with some time and paitence- that is the way to go. Not MANGLING the poor beast that you are supposed to love....
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#6 Posted on 23.1.03 0739.40
Reposted on: 23.1.10 0747.37
As everone knows, PETA is a waste of breathable air.....

....but that does not diminish the fact htat declawing a cat is horrific. It is, literally, the removal of parts of a cat. Does anybody really think its necessary? People who are going to take their cats to be euthanized because they scratch shit probably should never have gotten a cat in the first place!
cranlsn
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#7 Posted on 23.1.03 0929.26
Reposted on: 23.1.10 0932.07
This is actually quite interesting for me. Number one...I will never declaw a cat, as I'll never own one. I hate them.

That aside, fine...it's a horrific operation, but I've not seen any "maladjusted" cats because of it. Every time I've been to a friends house with cats (which have been declawed), they seem happy & friendly enough.

I'm not saying that the operation doesn't sound horrific enough (especially with how well it's now been described), but isn't that better than the alternative? Dead kitty because rather than take the time to train them they'll just never adopt?

It's no skin off my nose either way. With so many other pressing problems for lawmakers to deal with...this is their great victory?

P.S. Rikidozan...you're avatar really goes well with angry sounding responses.



(edited by cranlsn on 23.1.03 0930)

(edited by cranlsn on 23.1.03 0931)
OlFuzzyBastard
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#8 Posted on 23.1.03 0954.56
Reposted on: 23.1.10 0955.25
I agree with Grimis and Pool-Boy, and if you've been in the politics forum, you know how momentous an occasion this truly is.

I have a cat, she is *not* de-clawed, and she does not claw the furniture or anything else that wasn't bought for that express purpose. They sell this spray, it's about $3 a bottle, and one bottle will last you forever. It's odorless to humans, and is supposed to stimulate the smell of another cat (or something like that), and if you spray it on your furniture, the cat won't ever claw it, thinking it's already been marked as the territory of another cat.

(A spray bottle works wonders, too. The first year we had her, she had a thing about climbing the Christmas tree. I sprayed her with water one time when she did it - and she took off like a shot. The amazing thing is, she *remembers*, and has left the tree alone in the proceeding Christmases.)

And if you declaw your cat, you better be extremely careful your cat never gets outside, because that renders your pet completely defenseless (but unaware that they're completely defenseless)., and completely at the mercy of any other animal they may wander across.

PETA does a lot of stupid things in the name of publicity, but that doesn't mean they're always wrong. (I'm an animal rights person myself, but within reason. PETA tends to go too far. Most of my charity money goes towards either the local Animal Friends shelter or the ASPCA.)
MoeGates
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#9 Posted on 23.1.03 1016.13
Reposted on: 23.1.10 1017.41
That aside, fine...it's a horrific operation, but I've not seen any "maladjusted" cats because of it. Every time I've been to a friends house with cats (which have been declawed), they seem happy & friendly enough.

If you've ever seen a three-legged dog, I'm sure it seemed happy and friendly enough also. It doesn't mean the dog likes having three legs. Just because the cat can't tell you "damn it, this whole getting your claws cut off really sucks" doesn't mean it's OK with it.

I'm going to throw in the whole spay and neuter thing though, just to see how people rectify "cut off claws = bad, cut off balls = good." I'm not being a schmuk, I have this same reaction, and I'd like some justification for it that I'm not coming up with on my own.
cranlsn
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#10 Posted on 23.1.03 1024.43
Reposted on: 23.1.10 1028.48
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    That aside, fine...it's a horrific operation, but I've not seen any "maladjusted" cats because of it. Every time I've been to a friends house with cats (which have been declawed), they seem happy & friendly enough.

    If you've ever seen a three-legged dog, I'm sure it seemed happy and friendly enough also. It doesn't mean the dog likes having three legs. Just because the cat can't tell you "damn it, this whole getting your claws cut off really sucks" doesn't mean it's OK with it.

    I'm going to throw in the whole spay and neuter thing though, just to see how people rectify "cut off claws = bad, cut off balls = good." I'm not being a schmuk, I have this same reaction, and I'd like some justification for it that I'm not coming up with on my own.



O.K. I don't know what kind of monsters you're hanging out with but no one I know has had their dogs leg amputated because it was a problem. Seriously, that's a little different.

On the spaying/neutering, I'm all for that. It'd be different if they were wild animals, they're not. Since we domesticated them we're partially responsible for them. Which means taking responsibility for all the offspring they can produce as well. If declawing becomes outlawed, nationwide, spaying & neutering will become even more important to prevent needless euthanization of unwanted animals.

Back to the declawing...compare it to clipping a birds wings. Isn't it better to clip the birds wings, then have it accidentally get out of it's cage and break its neck trying to escape the house?

(edited by cranlsn on 23.1.03 1025)
emma
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#11 Posted on 23.1.03 1817.24
Reposted on: 23.1.10 1821.56
Regarding neutering, it is a very simple procedure, rarely resulting in complications, & significantly reduces the overall number of animals that will need to be euthanised in the next generation. Positive side effects are a reduction in death rate due to cancers, & a significant decrease in injuries sustained by the animal getting into territory fights, seeking females in heat (eg. getting run over in a testosterone-blinded dash), etc.

Regarding spaying, even though it is a more complicated procedure than neutering, complications are uncommon. Same comments about euthanisa in the next generation, as well as some cancers. Also, pregnancy has inherent dangers for the mother, which are removed if she is spayed. Unlike clawing, you cannot train your female cat in heat not to wander around the house yowling, which is a significant behaviour issue.

Declawing is not a trivial procedure, & often results in complications, most often being infection at one or more of the surgical sites, which can become serious & even life-threatening. Generally the declawed cat is in obvious discomfort for at least a week after the procedure, even if there are no complications. (Compare the spayed cat who naps the rest of surgery day, takes it easy the next day, & is back to leaping & flying by the following day.) Once the claws are removed, the cat is in significant danger from predators (if he/she gets out); this is both by loss of its offensive weapons, & also by a reduced ability to climb to escape. There are zero health benefits to the animal. This is all so that you don't have to have a scratching post in your living room.

If you feel the need to declaw the cat, don't get a cat.

(BTW, regarding wing clipping, strategic clipping of the flight feathers is a much better option than whacking off part of a wing.)
Teppan-Yaki
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#12 Posted on 23.1.03 1857.01
Reposted on: 23.1.10 1859.02
Regarding spaying/neutering, and adding to emma's comments -- rabbits (who multiply ;P) of the female persuasion need to be spayed around six months to avoid ovarian cancer.

I respect your opinions on declawing, but all three of my cats are declawed. That does not mean that I don't love my cats at all. I wouldn't have three of them if I didn't, nor would I buy them UTI food, etc.
ManiacalClown
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#13 Posted on 23.1.03 1958.06
Reposted on: 23.1.10 1959.01
Two of my cats are declawed. Both stay inside other than periodic supervised trips on to the deck or whatnot. This is something we have always done and have never had any complications. The major reason behind it has been that there's been a young child in the house when we got the cats, either my sister or myself, and it isn't beyond reality for a kid to annoy a cat to the point of scratching.

My third cat stays outside the majority of the time (he's an adopted stray) and, for obvious reasons has kept his claws.

Now, I've seen both sides of the spectrum, and to say that I don't love two of my cats like I should is just absurd and absolute bullshit. Quite frankly, I am offended, and it sure takes A LOT to offend me.

Jaguar
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#14 Posted on 23.1.03 2245.05
Reposted on: 23.1.10 2245.07
A couple things:

I don't have a problem with declawing cats as long as you do it when they're young. If this results in the adoption of the cat, I think it will be happier in the long run. However, this should only be an indoor cat. Outdoor cats should have all their claws so they can enjoy all the fun things cats do.

Of course I do have to make an exception for the second incarnation of my cat. He came to us without any front claws, yet he climbed trees, killed everything smaller than him, and chased around every other cat in the neighborhood.

The third incarnation is an indoor/outdoor cat, but his claws (when we don't trim them) get sharp enough to draw blood just by walking on you. He's great with kids, but we still watch him just to make sure he doesn't accidentally kill them.

-Jag
ekedolphin
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#15 Posted on 24.1.03 0223.34
Reposted on: 24.1.10 0229.01
Only one of our cats, Tommy, has ever been declawed, and he was declawed before we got him. Our two current living cats, Simba and Hailey, both have claws, and both are “fixed”, as was Tommy. When we first got Hailey a short time ago, she wasn't fixed, but she got the surgery as part of the adoption agreement with the Humane Society.

When Tommy was with us, he and Simba got along fine, aside from the occasional scuffle. Whenever Tommy and Simba would throw down, though, Simba never used his claws against Tommy. There was plenty of wrestling, and biting once in awhile, but I guess Simba adhered to some sort of “code of honor” or something when it came to his claws.

Now that Tommy's no longer with us, it's interesting to see the relationship that Simba and (the much younger, much smaller) Hailey have. They're kinda friends, but I guess the best way to describe their relationship is “mutual tolerance”.
Karlos the Jackal
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#16 Posted on 24.1.03 0504.46
Reposted on: 24.1.10 0506.13

    Originally posted by ManiacalClown
    Two of my cats are declawed. Both stay inside other than periodic supervised trips on to the deck or whatnot. This is something we have always done and have never had any complications. The major reason behind it has been that there's been a young child in the house when we got the cats, either my sister or myself, and it isn't beyond reality for a kid to annoy a cat to the point of scratching.

    My third cat stays outside the majority of the time (he's an adopted stray) and, for obvious reasons has kept his claws.

    Now, I've seen both sides of the spectrum, and to say that I don't love two of my cats like I should is just absurd and absolute bullshit. Quite frankly, I am offended, and it sure takes A LOT to offend me.




Yeah, but Clown, you were just a child when the cats were declawed. Of course no one here thinks that you don't love them. Now, when you're an adult, and you have new, different cats, and you decide that they need their fingertips hacked off and then be forced to walk around on them -- then we'll talk.

And kids that annoy cats SHOULD get scratched. It's called a LIFE LESSON. It's valuble and it builds character.

--K
Stefonics
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#17 Posted on 24.1.03 0609.00
Reposted on: 24.1.10 0617.18

    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
    And kids that annoy cats SHOULD get scratched. It's called a LIFE LESSON. It's valuble and it builds character.

    --K


YES! I hate it when parent groups get all uppity about how animals should behave around children. "Cats should be declawed" they say. "Dogs should muzzled" they say. "Bullshit" I say. 9 times out of 10 when a kid gets "attacked" by a household pet, the little fucker deserved it. Trust me, I was once a little fucker and got attacked by one of my cats. That lesson taught me to never have a staring contest with the cat at close range in the dark. I was also raised in a household with Pit Bulls. I have all of my limbs, no scars from the dogs, or anything else of that nature. I remember several years ago there was a story in my area about how this Pit Bull attacked a 5 year old boy. They (the parents) put the dog to sleep. When they were asked what happened, they lied and said that the kid was just playing with the dog. Turns out the little bastard used to shove his toothbrush into the dogs ears. And he used to try to pick the dog up by the ears. He would pull the dog around by the tail and ears. This went on for about a year before the dog finally got the little bastard. That dog shouldn't have been put down; he should have been given a medal for his even temper.
Corajudo
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#18 Posted on 25.1.03 1027.46
Reposted on: 25.1.10 1029.01
So, how do the anti-declawing feel about circumcision (unless you're Jewish and do it for religious reasons)? If any of you have boys, have they been circumcised? Or, would you circumcise any future boys? It's an extreme, although temporary, discomfort which no longer provides any medical benefits, in developed nations anyways. At least with declawing you can make the argument that there is some benefit, especially if that's the difference between euthanizing a kitten and having it adopted by a loving family. I would hope that even PETA would regard declawing as a the lesser of two evils in that circumstance.



(edited by Corajudo on 25.1.03 1032)
Zeruel
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#19 Posted on 25.1.03 1121.00
Reposted on: 25.1.10 1122.48

    Originally posted by Corajudo
    So, how do the anti-declawing feel about circumcision (unless you're Jewish and do it for religious reasons)? If any of you have boys, have they been circumcised? Or, would you circumcise any future boys? It's an extreme, although temporary, discomfort which no longer provides any medical benefits, in developed nations anyways. At least with declawing you can make the argument that there is some benefit, especially if that's the difference between euthanizing a kitten and having it adopted by a loving family. I would hope that even PETA would regard declawing as a the lesser of two evils in that circumstance.



    (edited by Corajudo on 25.1.03 1032)



men in the USA get their jimmies infected w/ yeast if they are circumcised or not. just because we're in the great USA doesn't mean there aren't dirty, dirty people who live here...

the difference between declawing and circumcising is 16 bones (or 8 if you do the front paws and leave the duclaws alone) vs. a flap of skin.

would you "declaw" your children? take their 4 fingers and put them in a cigar cutter and lop off their last joints? that's what declawing is.

circumsizing can be considered a form of mutalation, but it's far less extreme than declawing, and at least it only happens to the guys. declawing happens to both sexes.
Teppan-Yaki
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#20 Posted on 25.1.03 1247.45
Reposted on: 25.1.10 1252.55

    Originally posted by rikidozan

      Originally posted by Corajudo
      So, how do the anti-declawing feel about circumcision (unless you're Jewish and do it for religious reasons)? If any of you have boys, have they been circumcised? Or, would you circumcise any future boys? It's an extreme, although temporary, discomfort which no longer provides any medical benefits, in developed nations anyways. At least with declawing you can make the argument that there is some benefit, especially if that's the difference between euthanizing a kitten and having it adopted by a loving family. I would hope that even PETA would regard declawing as a the lesser of two evils in that circumstance.



      (edited by Corajudo on 25.1.03 1032)



    men in the USA get their jimmies infected w/ yeast if they are circumcised or not. just because we're in the great USA doesn't mean there aren't dirty, dirty people who live here...

    the difference between declawing and circumcising is 16 bones (or 8 if you do the front paws and leave the duclaws alone) vs. a flap of skin.

    would you "declaw" your children? take their 4 fingers and put them in a cigar cutter and lop off their last joints? that's what declawing is.

    circumsizing can be considered a form of mutalation, but it's far less extreme than declawing, and at least it only happens to the guys. declawing happens to both sexes.



"Peter, I'd like to disagree."

RDZ -- I understand you're passionate about this, but check your facts on some things and your semantics first:

Circumsizing can be done to both sexes; unfortunately for women, it is the clitoris that is removed. Very nasty practice done in some parts of the world.

Not to throw the whole vegetarianism and leather clothing/accessories card in, but I might as well... Vegetarian, or not, RDZ? If you are, I can understand your argument and respect it. If you aren't, then I can't see how you can protect precious little kitties when Elsie's getting mutilated herself.
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