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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - It's Vince Stupid! Register and log in to post!
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Jackson
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#1 Posted on 30.12.02 2215.25
Reposted on: 30.12.09 2217.33
After watching the “Best of” special it struck me what could be a big part of the problem with the WWE and the fans of late. Seeing all the pixeled shots of any WWF logo reminded me of how much Vince matters in the grand scheme of things. From the XFL, to the pandas, to the fact that he just gave up and handed his show to his daughter and his formerly hated rival, it must look to the casual fan that Vince just gave up. He tried mergers and invasions and alliances. His version of the NWO was even worse than the original. His wife even kicked his ass.

If it looks like the owner of the company doesn’t care anymore why should the fans? The old Vince would mark out over a guy in a turkey costume. The fact that Vince was so intense all the time no matter how lame the wrestler or angle was what made you hate yet respect the guy. Now it just seems that he got his ass kicked and has given up. He needs to come back and pissed off. I really never thought I would call for more Vince but compared to HLA, HHH or Steph promos I’ll take pissed off Vince vs. pissed off Austin version 6.0 or whatever the hell we would be up to now. I think that sounds a lot better than rehashing Steiner and Goldberg.
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Big Bad
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#2 Posted on 30.12.02 2236.33
Reposted on: 30.12.09 2239.00
I think you're onto something, Jackson. Imagine if the NFL tomorrow decided to call themselves the National Football Association. You can't just erase a world-renowned brand name and expect not to suffer.
fuelinjected
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#3 Posted on 30.12.02 2319.53
Reposted on: 30.12.09 2320.13
I would enjoy seeing Vince and Bischoff struggle for power of RAW. Vince could come out and try to take it back only for Bischoff to reveal that when Vince gave him full control, Eric had it written in the contract that Vince can't remove him from power. Something like that would be good and would really seperate RAW from Smackdown.

I agree that the WWE really has given off a "loser" vibe to the casual fans in the past year or more that WCW used to give off. On the surface, casual fans see that WWE lost their name, lost in the football game horribly, and lost their top star. The casual fans don't care about to reasons behind those things, they just see the failures. Its just like the bandwagon jumpers in pro sports when they see a team in financial trouble or showing signs of decline, they jump right off the bandwagon.
GRL
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#4 Posted on 31.12.02 0800.09
Reposted on: 31.12.09 0804.01
Oh, my God, that's it!! We NEED Vince back, and we need the old Vince, to boot. I'm not even talking in an on-screen capacity. The man needs to run that company like the evil Mr. McMahon did during the Austin/McMahon saga.

(This is of course, realizing I have no idea what goes on backstage and whether or not Vince truly has lost heart, but I agree completely with the signs possibly pointing in peculiar directions...)
Simba
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#5 Posted on 31.12.02 0818.50
Reposted on: 31.12.09 0825.24
With Austin's (pending) return, I would imagine we'll see Vince's mug sooner or later.

(keeps fingers crossed that it's Shane who brings back Austin to right the ship)
SKLOKAZOID
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#6 Posted on 31.12.02 0908.34
Reposted on: 31.12.09 0910.00
You're exactly right. Vince McMahon is the person who has been ultimately responsible for the problems that are going on. He's getting older and wants to pass on the family business, but he made the fatal mistake of handing Stephanie control of the book before she was ready. Now, he can't do anything about it, because if he relieves her, that's a sign of no-confidence. Vince Russo mentioned something similar in an interview he gave last Summer, and I think I agree with him for the most part. Vince is a changed man.

The responsibility lies only on his shoulders, especially since he gave the stockholders no control at all. I think WWE got too big for its own good and, without any competition to draw from, he really has no idea where to take the business anymore. He has no real vision for what can make WWE bigger and better. At least, that's the way it seems.

Right now, he's making moves to keep the buiness treading water so that it doesn't sink any further, but it's coming at the expense of the future. Now, we hear he's already working on signing Goldberg... for a match with ROCK? Back in 1998, I didn't even think about wanting to see that match, because the two characters really have no connection/conflict whatsoever. With WWE's talent roster currently as deep as it is, is Goldberg really necessary?
Goldberg's a holdover from years ago, when the Attitude era was strong. I don't see any way he can make WWE grow from that.
GRL
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#7 Posted on 31.12.02 0943.24
Reposted on: 31.12.09 0948.13
The same with Steiner. And to a certain extent, HHH(no undue bashing coming, I promise). I think the moves that were made with Brock this year were great... I think further development with him is something I'd rather see before an Austin return.

So what is the answer? What are ways to be bigger and better than the heights they've already seen? How does the business change from here on out?
Quezzy
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#8 Posted on 31.12.02 1108.35
Reposted on: 31.12.09 1110.56
Well another problem that SKLOKAZOID very briefly touched on was that he has no competition. The old Vince was so intense because he so badly wanted to beat the WCW. But now, he's lost that. Using the football analogy again. Imagine if you were the San Francisco 49ers, and you were the only team in the league, except for a Cincinati Bengal here, or a Carolina Panther there, you wouldn't have any motivation to beat those guys. What the WWE needs is a rival again. I'm sure if a rival DID arise and WWE got spanked then Vince would take the book back from Steph. But I don't see a rival coming anytime soon, although I don't really watch anything other than WWE so what do I know?
Freeway
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#9 Posted on 31.12.02 1206.17
Reposted on: 31.12.09 1207.56
You're HALF-right. There's no wrestling rival. But the WWF's rivals come in other television shows, in movies, and in every other form of entertainment. And right now, frankly, they ARE getting spanked by 'em.
redsoxnation
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#10 Posted on 31.12.02 1208.32
Reposted on: 31.12.09 1210.36

    Originally posted by Quezzy
    Well another problem that SKLOKAZOID very briefly touched on was that he has no competition. The old Vince was so intense because he so badly wanted to beat the WCW. But now, he's lost that. Using the football analogy again. Imagine if you were the San Francisco 49ers, and you were the only team in the league, except for a Cincinati Bengal here, or a Carolina Panther there, you wouldn't have any motivation to beat those guys. What the WWE needs is a rival again. I'm sure if a rival DID arise and WWE got spanked then Vince would take the book back from Steph. But I don't see a rival coming anytime soon, although I don't really watch anything other than WWE so what do I know?




Very good point. Look at the 2 growth points for Vince: mid 80's when he was trying to destroy all the territories. Once the UWF/World Class and the AWA folded, Vince took the foot off the pedal, and as WCW became a bungling organization in the early 90's, Vince just decided to float along, knowing he had the #1 organization.
Vince stayed in this condition until the impossible happened, and WCW arose from its slumber. Although it took a few years of bad ideas, Vince finally was able to revive the WWF/E, and take out WCW, ending any competition for him. From that moment on (remember Mania X7 is considered the high water mark by some, 1 week after WCW went under), Vince has taken the same mentality he had in the early 90's: coast along knowing he has the #1 company, so why better the product when you have the only product available.
Parts Unknown
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#11 Posted on 31.12.02 1257.44
Reposted on: 31.12.09 1259.01
I don't believe this. The IWC is so, so sad...

Just a few months ago, most people were on this board screaming "VINCE AND ALL HIS FAMILY MEMBERS SUCK! GET THEM OFF MY TV!!!"

Now you want him back?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Jackson
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#12 Posted on 31.12.02 1656.56
Reposted on: 31.12.09 1659.01
Yeah, it is sad but it beats blaming Kevin Kelly's wife.
Doc_whiskey
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#13 Posted on 1.1.03 1916.21
Reposted on: 1.1.10 1916.55
The problem isn't lack of competition, I thin it is an unwillingness to try new things. Everyone says Vince is obsessed with big guys, but the fans want to see the quicker technical guys. He likes people like Albert, Big Show, and the Undertaker, while the fans want Edge, Angle, Booker, and RVD. I think until he wakes up an realizes that peoples tastes have changed, then the WWE will continue to "float" along.
THEMIXXER
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#14 Posted on 2.1.03 0004.36
Reposted on: 2.1.10 0004.53

    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
    I don't believe this. The IWC is so, so sad...

    Just a few months ago, most people were on this board screaming "VINCE AND ALL HIS FAMILY MEMBERS SUCK! GET THEM OFF MY TV!!!"

    Now you want him back?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



Apply what you just said, and insert Austin's name: SAME SITUATION....
At least there are still a few who still detest BOTH of them.
Ticamo
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#15 Posted on 2.1.03 0052.07
Reposted on: 2.1.10 0053.33

    Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
    The problem isn't lack of competition, I thin it is an unwillingness to try new things. Everyone says Vince is obsessed with big guys, but the fans want to see the quicker technical guys. He likes people like Albert, Big Show, and the Undertaker, while the fans want Edge, Angle, Booker, and RVD. I think until he wakes up an realizes that peoples tastes have changed, then the WWE will continue to "float" along.


I agree with you here, Doc. Vince has got to realize that we're a fast paced world and no one wants to sit back and watch matches with big guys who are so slow and boring. Sure, a commentator will try to convince us that he's 'methodical' in the beating he's giving an opponent, but we all know that it's some big, out of shape slob who needs to go condition himself into a better wrestler.

What there is, in the WWE, is a total lack of confidence in any new superstars, especially on the RAW show. I don't see where we need to bring in Steiner or bring back HBK when the fans would like the see Booker T and RVD and Jericho get fair runs at the title. I think that leads people to turning from watching the show. If you have no faith in RVD being a champion who headlines PPV's for you, then why should I? He has so many wrestlers who were well established before they came to the WWE and just made them mid-carders.

I also think there's a lack of competence within the creative staff and the booking staff. We know the storylines and we know the matches that Paul Heyman is responsible for. Yes, in the past, we've had some bad storylines... But the ratio of stinkers to watchable tv hasn't been this sad in a long time. Whomever is writing this stuff know has no respect for consistency and enjoyability.

Sure he got on my nerves by overshadowing his wrestlers, but his presence on tv is missed and the show admittedly was better when he was on it.
Stephanie
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#16 Posted on 2.1.03 0405.20
Reposted on: 2.1.10 0408.06

    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
    I don't believe this. The IWC is so, so sad...

    Just a few months ago, most people were on this board screaming "VINCE AND ALL HIS FAMILY MEMBERS SUCK! GET THEM OFF MY TV!!!"

    Now you want him back?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



I can't speak for everyone, but I think we're just looking to have Vince pick up the book again and take a more active behind the scenes role - just to steady the ship that Steph-Steph and her writers are sinking. We're not asking to see his face plastered all over the show again.

Steph
Jackson
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#17 Posted on 2.1.03 2301.56
Reposted on: 2.1.10 2302.07
Instead of fans I should have said "marks". That way the "IWC" would get what I am talking about. The marks buy the PPV's. The IWC bitches three weeks in advance before a PPV about why they won't buy it. Here is a good example of the difference.

The problem isn't lack of competition, I thin it is an unwillingness to try new things. Everyone says Vince is obsessed with big guys, but the fans want to see the quicker technical guys. He likes people like Albert, Big Show, and the Undertaker, while the fans want Edge, Angle, Booker, and RVD. I think until he wakes up an realizes that peoples tastes have changed, then the WWE will continue to "float" along.

Obviously, a lack of competition is the problem. If the fans (again,think marks cause we like to look down on them) wanted to see quicker technical guys maybe they could stop snoring during a Benoit/Angle match long enough to say so. People's (again read marks) tastes have not changed. These people don't go online to bitch about the biz. They just want a freaking show.

Now let me see if I can even remember my original point. Some of my best friends are marks and they seemed to like watching the saga of Vinny Mac. I didn't need to tell them how much the company was going downhill for them to feel it. Hell, you might want to bring back a little kayfabe if you are going to look this weak. What really scares me is that Vince truly is a beaten man. He never came off this sad when he really was getting his ass kicked by his now dead competition. I just want the old man to show he still has some fight in him. He can stick all the commissioners and GMs on the screen he wants to but the marks and the IWC both know it is his game and he has dropped the ball. I think if he picks that ball up then business is fixing to pick up.










By Gawd.



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