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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Vince sez "Shock TV is dead" Register and log in to post!
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Jackson
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#21 Posted on 5.12.02 1604.26
Reposted on: 5.12.09 1607.13
Guess Stone Cold finally made his point huh?
Wonderful1
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#22 Posted on 5.12.02 1614.59
Reposted on: 5.12.09 1619.44
As I said on another thread, Vince needs to pay attention to the larger wrestling world that's occuring beyond the walls of Titan Towers. It was paying attention to the larger wrestling world that lead to its most successful periods, the mid-80's Wrestlemania era (top stars of the regionial promotions including Hulk Hogan) and the late-90's Attitude era (ECW Extreme approach on a national level). His current statement is a first step but he has to realize that a more athletic wrestling style is what wrestling needs right now. There's a reason RVD is one of the most over wrestlers right now, and it's not his verbal charisma.

A problem with RAW right now is that it doesn't have the talent to provide a more wrestling oriented show. The problem with the brand extension from the beginning is that Smackdown has the better workers. Compare the RAW and Smackdown tag team divisions. While Smackdown's division has its share of skits (made entertaining due to Kurt Angle and Los Guerreros), the feuds of the division is primarily based on workrate. RAW's tag team division is almost entirely based on silly skits and surprise angles (Dudley reunion). RAW's best match this year was Eddy Guerrero vs. RVD and a few weeks later Guerrero is sent to Smackdown.

While I don't believe the brand extension should end, mainly because the pacing of one weekly show is better than throwing everything into two weekly shows, there should be a way to rectify this talent imbalance. As far as workers go, outside of Jericho, not too many people on the roster are capable of carrying matches. Booker is someone who is great at being carried but is not a carrier (like Sting), RVD needs someone to keep him grounded, HHH, well he should begin by losing some muscle and I'll leave it at that right now, etc. If RAW could get some stronger workers like Kanyon or one of the more technically sound OVW workers like Doug Basham then RAW could be a stronger show.

Another suggestion, get rid of Gerwitz.

Wonderful1
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#23 Posted on 5.12.02 1759.43
Reposted on: 5.12.09 1802.33
I see the same problem as Wonderful1 does with Raw. Besides Booker, Jericho, Kane and RVD, there is no one there that can pull off a great match every week. HHH is nowhere near their level. Maven and Nowenski are great up and comers even though the WWE seems to drop the ball on them, so they could Stiener make an apperance. The woman's division has been carried by Trish and now Victoria, I know they are waiting for Lita and Jazz, but Jackie is not the answer and where the hell is Molly at anyway? T

he best thing Raw can do is go ECW. You have Tommy, Lance, the Dudleys, Raven and Justin Crediable, right there. I hate to break it to people, but fans want to see less technical wrestling and more high spots. If Storm/Regal are allowed to bore me to tears along with Test at least give me a table spot. Jesus, will someone tell Jim Cornett that he ruined wrestling and not ECW. If the hardcore division was around there men would be hella over. I thought one of the reasons for the split was for Raw to be more hardcore now it isn;t cause we have to unify the titles for HHH's ego, I think not.

Another problem is the writing is so inconsistant its stupid. Nowenski/Maven is the best fued on Raw, but yet they go to Heat. Jericho is fueding with everyone and their brother cause HHH can't be the heel that everyone hates, but the roster still does or at least they did a few weeks ago. The number 1 contender's matches' finishes can be seen a mile away. I remember when Raw was somewhat predictable, but fun. Now, its very predictable and boring.

A Fan- If shock TV is dead, then its time to kil the dead weight attatched to it.
darkdragoon
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#24 Posted on 5.12.02 2039.43
Reposted on: 5.12.09 2040.58
Rubbish.

Maven doesn't even have a finisher, Nowinski is Dean Douglas 2002.

Women's division has never lasted in the US, it just pops up every few years.

I guess the people standing and cheering Angle/Benoit and Eddy/Chavo is your proof that technical wrestling doesn't work? Regal is past his time, Lance can work but doesn't have an interesting character, plus they're facing the same people having to wrestle the same damn match (WWE specialty.)

Yeah, hardcore would get them over, because marks like spotfests, then complain when the same people can't do as many flips because they keep getting hurt. Hell, most of these supposedly good wrestlers like RVD and Jeff need to rip off a) Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid or b) Midnight Express, ironically MANAGED by Jim Cornette in order to have one minutae of flow or psychology.
Hogan's My Dad
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#25 Posted on 5.12.02 2106.07
Reposted on: 5.12.09 2111.49
Shinstrife no one from the IWC will ever be hired to write for the WWE; I don't think a three-year Kurt Angle title reign and the complete burial of anyone over 6'2 would necessarily mean big business...

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 5.12.02 1907)
Socks
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#26 Posted on 5.12.02 2247.32
Reposted on: 5.12.09 2248.30

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Shinstrife no one from the IWC will ever be hired to write for the WWE; I don't think a three-year Kurt Angle title reign and the complete burial of anyone over 6'2 would necessarily mean big business...

    (edited by Hogan's My Dad on 5.12.02 1907)



hahahaha!
shinstrife
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#27 Posted on 6.12.02 1609.03
Reposted on: 6.12.09 1620.06

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Shinstrife no one from the IWC will ever be hired to write for the WWE; I don't think a three-year Kurt Angle title reign and the complete burial of anyone over 6'2 would necessarily mean big business...

    (edited by Hogan's My Dad on 5.12.02 1907)



I'm not in the IWC,I mean I wish I could get a job at WWE. I don't even know what in the blue hell IWC is.

And it would be a 3 year benoit reign,not Angle :-P
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#28 Posted on 6.12.02 1616.20
Reposted on: 6.12.09 1621.46
"Yeah, hardcore would get them over, because marks like spotfests, then complain when the same people can't do as many flips because they keep getting hurt."

Hey pal, guess what? "Marks" are the target audience! You're not! Game over! Go home!
deadbeater3
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#29 Posted on 6.12.02 1636.46
Reposted on: 6.12.09 1641.35
If WWE wants to be a storytelling group, then write up some damn good stories, or adapt stories from other sources and have the wrestlers follow it. Disney abuses it totally. Why shouldn't the WWE? The talent is there, they have to use it right. Why did Molly/Spike work? It was based on Romeo and Juliet. Why does Goldust/Booker T work? The Odd Couple. Why did HHH vs Vince work? A classic war between in-laws.

Why didn't Trish/Molly work, even though it had one of the more compelling storylines in history coming in--a woman trying hard to get out of the beauty queen mold she was boxed in, being eternally harassed by a very bitter, very skillful worker jealous, not because of skill and beauty, but because of the hero's ease of acceptance by fans and media while having to do half the work the bitter one does? An off-color joke stretched too far at the expense of the rest of the natural storyline coming into the feud.
Xavier Doom
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#30 Posted on 7.12.02 1033.37
Reposted on: 7.12.09 1034.03

    Originally posted by It's False
    Well, Vince McMahon has taken the first step on the road back to the top. Apparently, Vince McMahon admitted at the last creative meeting that Shock TV is dead and WWE should no longer go in that direction.

    So what does this mean? Hopefully, it means going back to something crazy...like wrestling!

    Hopefully, we've seen the end of necrophilia and the like.



Necrophilia?

Wow, and I stopped watching when Mae Young gave birth to a hand and the WWF called it entertainment.

Well, that's a lie. I really stopped watching when McMahon got his monopoly.

Yeesh... I still play wrestling video games and drop by here now and then for old time's sake, but man... all that shock crap just killed my interest in watching gen-u-ine wrestling on TV.

I don't care if they go back 20 years to when you could watch a match and not have your intelligence insulted... I just don't trust Vince McMahon to provide me with anything worth watching.
evilwaldo
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#31 Posted on 7.12.02 1829.31
Reposted on: 7.12.09 1834.53
The Raw brand was never supposed to be wrestling specific. It was supposed to be more 'Sports Entertainment.' The problem has been that Raw is giving us pretty crappy sports entertainment.
spf
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#32 Posted on 7.12.02 1836.42
Reposted on: 7.12.09 1836.44

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    "Yeah, hardcore would get them over, because marks like spotfests, then complain when the same people can't do as many flips because they keep getting hurt."

    Hey pal, guess what? "Marks" are the target audience! You're not! Game over! Go home!


If that's the case, then they have some crappy aim over in Stamford, because more and more it looks like we're the only ones left. Maybe if they aimed at us some more, they might find the marks are not nearly as far from us as some people in the IWC like to claim. Sure there is divergence on certain wrestlers, but the general desire of everyone is to have exciting tv with fun matches and well-written storylines. It's just we in the IWC are apparently willing to put up with a lot more crap than these "marks"
Wonderful1
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#33 Posted on 7.12.02 1854.40
Reposted on: 7.12.09 1854.55

    Originally posted by deadbeater3
    If WWE wants to be a storytelling group, then write up some damn good stories, or adapt stories from other sources and have the wrestlers follow it. Disney abuses it totally. Why shouldn't the WWE? The talent is there, they have to use it right. Why did Molly/Spike work? It was based on Romeo and Juliet. Why does Goldust/Booker T work? The Odd Couple. Why did HHH vs Vince work? A classic war between in-laws.

    Why didn't Trish/Molly work, even though it had one of the more compelling storylines in history coming in--a woman trying hard to get out of the beauty queen mold she was boxed in, being eternally harassed by a very bitter, very skillful worker jealous, not because of skill and beauty, but because of the hero's ease of acceptance by fans and media while having to do half the work the bitter one does? An off-color joke stretched too far at the expense of the rest of the natural storyline coming into the feud.



Most of those storylines you described never reached their logical conclusions. The Molly/Spike story ended when Molly all of sudden wanted to be a superhero sidekick for no apparent reason. As you noted, Trish/Molly got sidetracked by those "big butt" comments, even though Molly's butt isn't that big (man, does Molly gets screwed in storylines or what). While you could say that the Booker T/Goldust got sidetracked because the fans took to it more than expected, for the most part the WWE gives fans stories they don't necessarily want to see like necrophilia or continued pushes of individuals that they rejected in the first place. Why not give a Sheldon Benjamin a chance instead of the umpteenth Test or Albert push or let another guy with a huge physique being shoved down our throats because he has a huge physique. No offense to Brook Lesner but why does he get the huge push while the Sheldon Benjamins and the Doug Bashams are stuck doing dark matches?

If RAW is going to be the more Sports Entertainment oriented show, fine, but give us better, well-written stories instead of stuff that are proven failures.

Wonderful1
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#34 Posted on 7.12.02 1910.01
Reposted on: 7.12.09 1912.37

    Originally posted by Wonderful1

      Originally posted by deadbeater3
      If WWE wants to be a storytelling group, then write up some damn good stories, or adapt stories from other sources and have the wrestlers follow it. Disney abuses it totally. Why shouldn't the WWE? The talent is there, they have to use it right. Why did Molly/Spike work? It was based on Romeo and Juliet. Why does Goldust/Booker T work? The Odd Couple. Why did HHH vs Vince work? A classic war between in-laws.

      Why didn't Trish/Molly work, even though it had one of the more compelling storylines in history coming in--a woman trying hard to get out of the beauty queen mold she was boxed in, being eternally harassed by a very bitter, very skillful worker jealous, not because of skill and beauty, but because of the hero's ease of acceptance by fans and media while having to do half the work the bitter one does? An off-color joke stretched too far at the expense of the rest of the natural storyline coming into the feud.



    Most of those storylines you described never reached their logical conclusions. The Molly/Spike story ended when Molly all of sudden wanted to be a superhero sidekick for no apparent reason. As you noted, Trish/Molly got sidetracked by those "big butt" comments, even though Molly's butt isn't that big (man, does Molly gets screwed in storylines or what). .

    Wonderful1






Does this mean Molly's no longer a virgin?
fuelinjected
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#35 Posted on 7.12.02 2216.30
Reposted on: 7.12.09 2217.19
Shelton Benjamin and Doug Basham aren't big, that's why they haven't gotten a chance. Basham should've been in the Cruiserweight Division yesterday as far as I'm concerned. Benjamin, on the other hand, speaks like an educated white guy, and we all know that WWE can't push a non stereotypical black man.
Wonderful1
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#36 Posted on 8.12.02 0926.52
Reposted on: 8.12.09 0929.02

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Shelton Benjamin and Doug Basham aren't big, that's why they haven't gotten a chance. Basham should've been in the Cruiserweight Division yesterday as far as I'm concerned. Benjamin, on the other hand, speaks like an educated white guy, and we all know that WWE can't push a non stereotypical black man.


Yeah, it is sad that the WWE can't push a non-stereotypical Black ma. They had to turn Booker into a jive-talking cartoon character before he was over in WWE rings. Kinda sad because I preferred the WCW version of his character.

Wonderful1
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