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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - OFFICIAL WAR THREAD
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FurryHippie
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#1 Posted on 20.11.02 0927.36
Reposted on: 20.11.09 0929.02
This HHHater/HHH 'apologist' thing is so ridiculous. None of us are even backstage to know what really goes on, it is so unbelievable.

It used to somewhat of an interesting argument, but now people are telling complete lies.

A certain HHHater tried to say that HHH is on every segment of Raw, and the show is 2 hours of HHH "beating people with a sledgehammer" (as said by somebody here on Wienerville).

Once I heard this, I just threw my hands up. How can you continue the argument after people say this stuff? You can't.

The most sickening point I've heard so far, and the reason I call to just "end it", is when people say they're HAPPY he was injured, just so he would be off RAW.

That is just sad.

And god forbid somebody defends HHH. People get so offended by those who say good things about him, forgetting the fact that the only reason people take such a firm pro-HHH stance is because of the immense fury and hatred at which the rest of the board attacks with.

The point of all this? Too much hate.

Let's make this the official "WAR THREAD", so if people want to come and fight about Triple H, come in here. Otherwise, keep all the illogical fighting about something nobody know about off the main board. It's so frustrating.
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mountinman44
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#2 Posted on 20.11.02 1009.04
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1009.08

    Originally posted by FurryHippie
    The most sickening point I've heard so far, and the reason I call to just "end it", is when people say they're HAPPY he was injured, just so he would be off RAW


There is no reason to be happy about anyone getting injured. I don't think people realize how lucky HHH is to just be alive right now. The impact that RVD hit him with could have crushed his trachea, which very likely would have killed HHH. Is that what everyone wants, another death in the ring?
I admit, I am not a big fan of HHH. His interviews with the press have left me baffled. Before WrestleMania, he said Chris Jericho, the champion, was not main event worthy instead of putting Jericho over. His most recent interview with the Cincinnati Enquirer, where he said he was the champion becuase he was the best and the other guys haven't found a niche, just added to it. Add in his "alleged" backstage maneuvering, and there is a lot of hatred toward the man.
I'm just tired of the guy. I know someone went overboard with the "2 hours of sledgehammer" comment, but it does feel like he is in most of the segments on RAW, even if he isn't. If being tired of HHH gets me labeled a HHHater, so be it.
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#3 Posted on 20.11.02 1015.53
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1015.57
I would simply like to point out that I have been quoted woefully out of context. I did not say that "HHH is on every segment of Raw, and the show is 2 hours of HHH beating people with a sledgehammer" I said that if you are not in favor of such a thing, that there is a certain contingent of the fanbase which will immediately begin to leap down your throat as a HHHater.

As for the comment about us getting upset over someone we know nothing about, I fail to see what that has to do with anything. Personally, when I complain, I complain about actions which occur in front of the entire world, and thus seem to be relatively fair game to complain about. I don't know why HHH seems to be the focus of every single Raw. I have my suspicions on the matter, but really it doesn't matter why. All that matters is the product, which to me has suffered due to him being such an integral part of it. Now if that's not something that should be open to discussion on a wrestling board, then we might as well close the place down.
FurryHippie
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#4 Posted on 20.11.02 1021.05
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1021.52
Mountainman,

Nah, there's a huge difference between being "tired of him" and being a "HHHater". The haters are the ones who go totally overboard to tell us how bad Triple H is, bringing up how he got the job back from Undertaker 7 years later, or how the kid dressed as Jericho in the Halloween commecial was smaller than the kid dressed as Triple H. THOSE people are totally hopeless to talk to.

(edited by FurryHippie on 20.11.02 0822)
Scott Summets
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#5 Posted on 20.11.02 1021.18
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1021.54
I have never really said anything bad about HHH, but my feeling about him is more disappointment than anything. In late 1999 I kinda stopped liking WWF and WCW, and fell out of the loop. I remeber around the time HHH married Steph I decided to give WWF another chance, and it was really HHH's character that drew me back in. The first PPV I ever saw was Rumble 2000, and the HHH/Foley match left me amazed, it was the first match I had ever saw that made me realize just how much pain these guys go through and how tough wrestling is, I loved that match so much. I was a huge HHH mark after that, I would listen to his intro music while working out and before football games and stuff like that. Hell, we can all admit he was the MAN in 2000. Then in 2001 he was still amazing and finished a match with a burned out quad. But then he returned.... I was pumped for that, I got 5th row seats to the Rumble and cheered as HHH won, but sadly after that he went to pot. I personally think he has gotten a bit better lately, but still I miss the old HHH.... hopefully he can heal up and come back and regain his old form. And if he does, I can see the HHH hating stoping, because honestly, who cares about backstage politics as long as we get five star and four star matches? I never saw much complaining about Bret Hart or Flair or others refusing to put people over as long as they could bust ass and give us insane matches. So, for me I'm kinda dissapointed in HHH and hope the real Hunter will return eventually.

(edited by Scott Summets on 20.11.02 1123)
mountinman44
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#6 Posted on 20.11.02 1022.30
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1024.04

    Originally posted by spf2119
    All that matters is the product, which to me has suffered due to him being such an integral part of it. Now if that's not something that should be open to discussion on a wrestling board, then we might as well close the place down.


Agreed. I don't think it's so much HHHatred as people are sick of seeing HHH as the main performer on RAW.
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#7 Posted on 20.11.02 1029.54
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1030.04

    Originally posted by spf2119
    All that matters is the product, which to me has suffered due to him being such an integral part of it. Now if that's not something that should be open to discussion on a wrestling board, then we might as well close the place down.


There's nothing wrong with open discussion. What I initially tried to say was how ridiculous the hatred was getting, with statements being made that have no validity. I doubt I can call the HHH topic an "open discussion". I would more likely say "all out war".
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#8 Posted on 20.11.02 1100.23
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1100.26
You know what? I'm not going to call myself a HHHater or an HHH apologist. But I do wanna say this: everyone seems to think that the WWE workplace should be this sort of utopian nirvana, where everybody is completely and totally selfless. Hey, I'm not claiming to know the WWE workplace personally, but I'll gladly bet dollars to donuts that the WWE workplace is no different than any other workplace - plenty of politics and backstabbing. And what workplaces do you hear about these things specifically? Corporate America and the entertainment industry. It's called the real world, folks. If you want the WWE to exist without politics or maneuvering or backstabbing or power plays, then write a letter to Vince asking him to replace everybody on his roster with robots. Cause I don't know of too many humans who aren't ambitious and just a wee bit selfish. And hey, if WWE goes under because of these kinds of things, then that's Vince's fault.

And I thought it was real cute how just about everyone's lambasting Monday's RAW for being the "HHH show," even though HHH wasn't there. Remember the four TV shows right after last year's Unforgiven? No Stone Cold in sight, yet mostly all of the talk was about Austin. Remember how, every five minutes, Heyman would say Austin would be pissed when he showed up and Austin never did? Remember the FAXES??? And then, in his first TV appearance in two weeks, Austin wins the WWF title back. Were people calling Austin Poochie back then, or I did miss that? What exactly is the difference between the two?
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#9 Posted on 20.11.02 1115.01
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1116.51

    Originally posted by FurryHippie
    This HHHater/HHH 'apologist' thing is so ridiculous. None of us are even backstage to know what really goes on, it is so unbelievable.

    It used to somewhat of an interesting argument, but now people are telling complete lies.

    A certain HHHater tried to say that HHH is on every segment of Raw, and the show is 2 hours of HHH "beating people with a sledgehammer" (as said by somebody here on Wienerville).

    Once I heard this, I just threw my hands up. How can you continue the argument after people say this stuff? You can't.

    The most sickening point I've heard so far, and the reason I call to just "end it", is when people say they're HAPPY he was injured, just so he would be off RAW.

    That is just sad.

    And god forbid somebody defends HHH. People get so offended by those who say good things about him, forgetting the fact that the only reason people take such a firm pro-HHH stance is because of the immense fury and hatred at which the rest of the board attacks with.

    The point of all this? Too much hate.

    Let's make this the official "WAR THREAD", so if people want to come and fight about Triple H, come in here. Otherwise, keep all the illogical fighting about something nobody know about off the main board. It's so frustrating.



Who exactly are you talking about?

It sounds like you're painting people with a biiiiig brush here to advance your "frustration."
Simba
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#10 Posted on 20.11.02 1128.16
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1129.01
I agree that hating HHH is seemingly the popular thing these days on the WV. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, which is why we're here. However, I will submit that we take a lot of what we read online as face value and a lot of "facts" are nothing more than opinion or speculation by the author.
I know a lot of people won't admit this, (and I'm sure we'll get a million "not me" replies) but a lot of WV posters seem to follow the opinions and views of Scott Keith. (and Dave Meltzer, by proxy) Think about it... he's really the only "high-profile" recapper out there that posts his opinions and has a loyal readership. (CRZ was more about the facts and nitty-gritty in his recaps, with an occasional opinion here or there) To contrast, Keith will expound upon a match with opinion and speculation. Check out his Summerslam review of the HBK/HHH match. He gave the match a high rating, then dove into a paragraph of how this match shouldn't have been this way or that way because of politics, or some story that Meltzer said 5 years ago, etc. He wasn't there, Dave likely wasn't there, and we certainly weren't there, but it's being taken as "fact" to the IWC.
Hey, more power to him. I would probably do the same in his position. His readership has given him a powerful voice in the IWC. Even his harshest critics can't deny that. I would just caution people to take a minute to actually consider something as "fact" before they believe it.

EDIT: Man, talk about long-winded. Basically, I'm saying that a lot of people are taking Scott's point of view on this whole HHH thing because they read it week after week. Damn, I tried to combine about 5 different points into one post. Sorry about that.

(edited by Simba on 20.11.02 1246)
evilwaldo
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#11 Posted on 20.11.02 1149.33
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1150.39
I just get annoyed with HHH in almost every segment backstage and crap like the elimination chamber where the buzz surrounding that match consisted exclusively of HHH and HBK with the other 4 wrestlers pushed into a backseat role.

dMr
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#12 Posted on 20.11.02 1153.59
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1156.49

    Originally posted by asteroidboy

      Originally posted by FurryHippie
      The point of all this? Too much hate.

      Let's make this the official "WAR THREAD", so if people want to come and fight about Triple H, come in here. Otherwise, keep all the illogical fighting about something nobody know about off the main board. It's so frustrating.



    Who exactly are you talking about?

    It sounds like you're painting people with a biiiiig brush here to advance your "frustration."



I think, and I hope I'm not completely misunderstanding the point of the orginal thread, that what our young hippy friend was referring to is that at a conservative estimate around 80% of threads seem to descend into a debate about HHH/the Clique. Doesnt matter if its a RAW report, a Smackdown report, a list, an RVD thread, whatever. Sooner or later somebody makes a snide remark about young Trips.

Doesnt matter if its funny, factual, serious, or tongue in cheek, before you know it you've got HHH defenders screaming for the guys head and so called HHHaters teling us Trips is a cancer on the WWE and the world in general. In on time at all the thread, no matter how original descends into the same polarised nonsense we've all read a thousand times before.

In short the point I believe was that if you have a comment on Mr Helmsley, dont stick it in some unrelated thread. Put it here where those who want to read it can. And those who dont give a damn dont have to.
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#13 Posted on 20.11.02 1242.07
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1242.07
The Stone Cold faxes were actually funny... JR, the King, and everyone else commenting constantly "Raw without HHH? That does not make sense!!!" - not funny. Not entertaining. Dull.
HHH love or hate aside... his injury aside... Raw was a much better program without HHH on it this week than it has been in a LONG TIME.
I am not a Stone Cold fan, but I have to admit the guy was a performer. HHH, right now and for the last year or two, has been completely unentertaining. Let's compare Stone Cold to HHH shall we?
Time and time again, I have seen Stone Cold get beat down. It happened quite often... usually as part of just about every feud he was in. How many times did the Rock beat him down? Hell, how many times did HHH beat him down?
Look at the last year. How many times has HHH been simply killed? I can't think of a single one since his return from the quad injury. And I do not count losing a casket match or anything like that. You ALL know what I am talking about. The closest he came was getting tossed into a trunk by Kane and he even screwed THAT up by "escaping."
HHH is selfish outside the ring and in... it is obvious by watching the show, and the fact is that he is plainly NOT entertaining. Of course there is hatred for him.

(edited by Pool-Boy on 20.11.02 1056)
fuelinjected
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#14 Posted on 20.11.02 1252.35
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1252.54
If the ratings dropped as much as they have over the past couple months with say Chris Jericho or Booker T or RVD as the World Champion and main focus of the show, would they still be the focus of the show?

I could easily put up with all of HHH's political BS back in 2000-2001 because he deserved to be in his spot. His character was great, his ring work was great but now? He's not 'that damn good' anymore.
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#15 Posted on 20.11.02 1320.18
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1320.50

    Originally posted by evilwaldo
    I just get annoyed with HHH in almost every segment backstage and crap like the elimination chamber where the buzz surrounding that match consisted exclusively of HHH and HBK with the other 4 wrestlers pushed into a backseat role.




But is HHH or HBK at fault because of "the buzz" being about them. I thought "buzz" was created by fans and promoters.

So why hate on HHH or HBK because people are more excited about seeing them than they are about the other guys? It's not their fault.
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#16 Posted on 20.11.02 1334.04
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1337.19

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    If the ratings dropped as much as they have over the past couple months with say Chris Jericho or Booker T or RVD as the World Champion and main focus of the show, would they still be the focus of the show?


I think more importantly than asking that, you have to ask this: If the ratings dropped as much as they have with any of those guys being the focus, would everyone be calling for any of their heads or saying that it was the "Chris Jericho Show," comparing them to Poochie, or anything like that?

I doubt it.
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#17 Posted on 20.11.02 1339.28
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1339.44

    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    And I thought it was real cute how just about everyone's lambasting Monday's RAW for being the "HHH show," even though HHH wasn't there. Remember the four TV shows right after last year's Unforgiven? No Stone Cold in sight, yet mostly all of the talk was about Austin. Remember how, every five minutes, Heyman would say Austin would be pissed when he showed up and Austin never did? Remember the FAXES??? And then, in his first TV appearance in two weeks, Austin wins the WWF title back. Were people calling Austin Poochie back then, or I did miss that? What exactly is the difference between the two?



There's a difference between when the WWF catered to Steve Austin and when they cater to HHH: Business was up when they pushed Austin to the moon. The fans (at least, the majority of them) ASKED for Steve Austin to win all the time. The oversaturation of HHH's character has led to nothing but decline.

Also, Austin was the top babyface in the WWF, which on television means he's the protagonist of the TV show, the main character. People do not relate to HHH's character in the same way they did to Austin.

Right now, HHH is the protagonist of RAW - or the antagonist depending on how you view it - and the television is bad and the numbers are going down. His push clearly isn't justified.
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#18 Posted on 20.11.02 1341.51
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1342.49

    Originally posted by The Amazing Salami

      Originally posted by evilwaldo
      I just get annoyed with HHH in almost every segment backstage and crap like the elimination chamber where the buzz surrounding that match consisted exclusively of HHH and HBK with the other 4 wrestlers pushed into a backseat role.




    But is HHH or HBK at fault because of "the buzz" being about them. I thought "buzz" was created by fans and promoters.

    So why hate on HHH or HBK because people are more excited about seeing them than they are about the other guys? It's not their fault.



I would argue that the "buzz" on HHH is so persistent and manufactured by the WWE that fans are gonna react to him because they have no choice. He's like a Britney Spears record. Is he any good? No, but he's shoved down people's throats, so it's almost a given that he'll go platinum. But it's not because he doesn't suck.
Parts Unknown
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#19 Posted on 20.11.02 1455.24
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1458.57

    Originally posted by asteroidboy

      Originally posted by The Amazing Salami

        Originally posted by evilwaldo
        I just get annoyed with HHH in almost every segment backstage and crap like the elimination chamber where the buzz surrounding that match consisted exclusively of HHH and HBK with the other 4 wrestlers pushed into a backseat role.




      But is HHH or HBK at fault because of "the buzz" being about them. I thought "buzz" was created by fans and promoters.

      So why hate on HHH or HBK because people are more excited about seeing them than they are about the other guys? It's not their fault.



    I would argue that the "buzz" on HHH is so persistent and manufactured by the WWE that fans are gonna react to him because they have no choice. He's like a Britney Spears record. Is he any good? No, but he's shoved down people's throats, so it's almost a given that he'll go platinum. But it's not because he doesn't suck.



Oh bullshit.

There are plenty of people who like Britney's music and think it is great even without promotion, just like there are plenty of people who think HHH absolutely rocks even without him being shoved down their throats. I hate him too but you know what? The marks don't give a flying rat's butt about what the Net nerds think, and that's a fact. No matter how heelish he is portrayed on TV, the arena still EXPLODES when the first chord of his music starts. That is star-power, backstage politics or not.

Ringmistress
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#20 Posted on 20.11.02 1503.22
Reposted on: 20.11.09 1503.38
When I read the title of this thread, I thought it was about Iraq or something. Oh well, this is close enough. As you weiners know, I fly my HHH flag proudly almost all of the time, and yet most of you welcome me with open arms. I won't go on at length, because I already have many times on this board already. So, I'll keep it simple and just say this. It's safe to say that this year, he's been either really good or really boring. But, just like this country's economy, a great wrestler's career goes in cycles, you know, prosperity, then inflation, then recession, then recovery. I live with a Ric Flair fanatic of 20 years, and the highs and lows I've seen there were unreal. So, you have to understand that for me, dumping this guy for one bad year out of the 5 pretty good ones I've spent with him, just isn't me. I will say, that he's been shoved down the old esophagus too hard (even for me) this year, especially with milktoast angles. I don't know anything that happens in the back, so I'll just leave that to you. If he was in something as meaningful and detailed as say his work in '00 and '01, I wouldn't have complained. Unfortunately, having watched him closely, he's put in one, only to be yanked into something uneventful. That for me, is what annoyed me about HHH this year. The necro thing? He was totally against it from day one, but he had no choice. Oh, in an environment like this, doing things you're not too fond of is something that doesn't shock me. I still remember reading about Molly Holly's uninterest in that whole "big ass" angle with Trish Stratus. If HHH comes back and does something effective with someone entertaining, I won't complain one bit. But, the writers and the bookers need to do their part too. Oh, I promised I wouldn't go on and on... Sorry. Look I won't put up a fight with the haters because I already tried that. I'll just say that I am not totally giving up on him.

Ringmistress
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