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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - your DVDVR 500 UPDATE for 11/2002!
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DrOp
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#21 Posted on 9.11.02 1836.25
Reposted on: 9.11.09 1841.46
Dean--- What is it in your mind that separates Benoit and Eddie from Angle? Is it the times that Kurt forgets to sell or are Yuki Ishikawa, Genichiro Tenyru, Jushin Lyger
and El Hijo del Santo *that* much better than he is? I know three or so spots isn't much, but still.

I *would* be on the Edge bandwagon except that he never seems to really cross the road to me. Instead of thinking about that great match Edge had with Kurt or Eddie, I think *wow* Eddie/Kurt pulled a fucking monster match out of Edge. I haven't seen him bring his 50% of each and every match and he certainly doesn't seem able to bring 60-70% if his opponent is lacking. I think when I start seeing him carry OTHER people, I'll agree that he gets shafted. But if that happens, then he'll probably have a believable offense and will rank higher.


DrOp--knows he's splitting hairs of sorts, but is interested in Dean's thinking in this case.
DEAN RASMUSSEN
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#22 Posted on 10.11.02 0810.00
Reposted on: 10.11.09 0811.23
    Originally posted by DrOp
    Dean--- What is it in your mind that separates Benoit and Eddie from Angle? Is it the times that Kurt forgets to sell or are Yuki Ishikawa, Genichiro Tenyru, Jushin Lyger and El Hijo del Santo *that* much better than he is? I know three or so spots isn't much, but still.

    DR: Benoit and Eddy look better on offense- better punches, better kicks. They are pretty equal every other way. Yuki Ishikawa's had a big wad of really great BattlARTS styled matches in Z-1 and in BattlARTS Restart and he is the master of that style AND I and a couple others on the 500 thingy consider it the best style in wrestling. Tenryu delivered BIG in his main event matches. Lyger was GOLD in the NJ Jr vs NOAH Jrs fued. Santo is Santo and would have been higher had he been on tape more. It's little shades of difference between anyone in the top 5 usually and this time is no exception. If Angle threw better punches, it'd be a dead heat for number 1.


    I *would* be on the Edge bandwagon except that he never seems to really cross the road to me. Instead of thinking about that great match Edge had with Kurt or Eddie, I think *wow* Eddie/Kurt pulled a fucking monster match out of Edge. I haven't seen him bring his 50% of each and every match and he certainly doesn't seem able to bring 60-70% if his opponent is lacking. I think when I start seeing him carry OTHER people, I'll agree that he gets shafted. But if that happens, then he'll probably have a believable offense and will rank higher.

    DR: Well, he holds up his end- he sells pretty well. It's just he gets smoked when you see him hit his three overly-assisted offensive moves and then you see- you know- Eddy Guerrero DO ANYTHING. Edge wrestles over his head with verve and vigor and you have to appreciate that.
    DEAN.


    (edited by DEAN RASMUSSEN on 10.11.02 0911)
DrOp
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#23 Posted on 10.11.02 0846.48
Reposted on: 10.11.09 0847.53
No argument from me on the Angle question, Dean. He should probably think about more forearms and less punches, although I think his punches as less Rock-like than they used to be. Angle has all the tools (looks, skillset, charisma) to be a huge megastar, but they just seem afraid to cut him loose for some reason. I demand a four month build to Angle-Lesnar!!

On Edge--Yes, he sells well, but then he goes and spears people after having his shoulder targeted for an entire match and it just makes me go insane.

A friend once posited that Edge could easily fit himself into the Rock's old match formula: Lose offensive momentum, Sell a beating, hit a crowd pleasing move or two, rinse, lather, repeat until finish--and I wonder why he doesn't. It's like he's trying SO hard to prove himself and keep up his end that he winds up missing the little things that can make a wrestler so awesome.

DrOp--wants to like Edge more. Really.
HomerJFong
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#24 Posted on 10.11.02 1657.50
Reposted on: 10.11.09 1659.01

    Originally posted by DEAN RASMUSSEN

    "64) El Dandy"



OK. How in the hell did Dandy manage this? He's in AAA, for criminy's sakes. Is he working incredibly far over his head and carrying 5 guys on his back while doing so? Or is there some secret match that I should try to get my hands on?
DEAN RASMUSSEN
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#25 Posted on 10.11.02 1855.46
Reposted on: 10.11.09 1857.35
    Originally posted by HomerJFong

      Originally posted by DEAN RASMUSSEN

      "64) El Dandy"



    OK. How in the hell did Dandy manage this? He's in AAA, for criminy's sakes. Is he working incredibly far over his head and carrying 5 guys on his back while doing so? Or is there some secret match that I should try to get my hands on?


-----
DR: Well, it was more of El Dandy moving down 30 after the last six months, but Tom and Phil did say the match against Perro Jr is really good.

DEAN.

(edited by DEAN RASMUSSEN on 10.11.02 1956)
Hogan's My Dad
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#26 Posted on 10.11.02 2038.01
Reposted on: 10.11.09 2049.05
I would have made Hogan number 1.
But then, I haven't really been paying attention.
spf
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#27 Posted on 11.11.02 0006.28
Reposted on: 11.11.09 0014.55
I have just 2 thoughts, as others have said pretty much everything else quite well:

CM Punk at 58 just makes me a very happy guy. That boy was the highlight of the MCW shows I went to, and one day the GI-Joe style t-shirt of his will be required wearing for good smark fans.

Lance Storm is gonna be pissed at you for his 265 ranking ;)
BigDaddyLoco
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#28 Posted on 11.11.02 0630.18
Reposted on: 11.11.09 0630.40

    132) Spike Dudley


I know he can make guys look like a million bucks in the ring with his bumping and selling, but shouldn't he have just a little offense to be ranked so high?
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#29 Posted on 11.11.02 0939.34
Reposted on: 11.11.09 0945.33

    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco

      132) Spike Dudley


    I know he can make guys look like a million bucks in the ring with his bumping and selling, but shouldn't he have just a little offense to be ranked so high?



DR: How come we don't get this argument from the "Edge is Too Low" crowd.
DEAN.
evilwaldo
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#30 Posted on 11.11.02 1027.39
Reposted on: 11.11.09 1027.39
Masato Tanaka at #19. I loved his work in ECW a few years back. He must be tearing it up in Japan. If there is one person I would like to see come over and work a few matches on Smackdown it would be him. Tanaka working with Benoit/Edge/Angle/Eddie would be pure gold.
DEAN RASMUSSEN
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#31 Posted on 11.11.02 1152.20
Reposted on: 11.11.09 1157.59

    Originally posted by evilwaldo
    Masato Tanaka at #19. I loved his work in ECW a few years back. He must be tearing it up in Japan. If there is one person I would like to see come over and work a few matches on Smackdown it would be him. Tanaka working with Benoit/Edge/Angle/Eddie would be pure gold.


DR: Yeah, he came back to form when he started hanging around Gedo and Jado a year ago and then Shinjiro Ohtani in Zero-1 in the last few months.

DEAN.
The Amazing Salami
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#32 Posted on 11.11.02 1236.06
Reposted on: 11.11.09 1238.33
I don't even want to pretend to know anything about this stuff but something funny while skimming the list ....

When I first glanced at this:

200) Raven
201) Mafia

The "M" from Mafia blended with Raven and I thought it said MAVEN at (200).

I was blown away.
RYDER FAKIN
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#33 Posted on 11.11.02 1405.48
Reposted on: 11.11.09 1406.01
Great (and FUN) list as always…

Just curious, what has Ian Rotten been doing to rate thatclose to the Top 50?

FLEA
Spaceman Spiff
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#34 Posted on 11.11.02 1510.46
Reposted on: 11.11.09 1511.32

    Kurt's my personal choice because he's been the most versatile, working different kinds of matches against Edge, Benoit and Misterio

I don't know if I'd go that far. Angle's pretty damn good w/in the confines of the "WWE Style", but to say he's the most versatile is wrong. Both Benoit & Eddy have proven they can work WWE Style, brawl, WCW Style (more freedom than WWE), cruiser (or at least quasi-Cruiser), and "Japanese Style" (for lack of a better term). Until Kurt proves he can work outside of the WWE Style, you can't say he's the most versatile in the fed.

And how much different are his matches w/ Edge, Benoit, and Misterio? Angle basically wrestled the same against each guy. Sure, he used some different spots w/ each guy, but the overall matches weren't much different.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 11.11.02 1313)
Joe_G
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#35 Posted on 11.11.02 1532.32
Reposted on: 11.11.09 1536.37
"Just curious, what has Ian Rotten been doing to rate thatclose to the Top 50?"

Ian dropped the garbage stuff and adopted a quasi shoot style. I've seen two of his highly pimped matches (against Chris Hero and Tarek the Great) and they were totally centered around mat work and stiff strikes. Not even a clothesline or anything. I think his rankings too high but I see where they're coming from.

Joe
commie_050
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#36 Posted on 11.11.02 1538.58
Reposted on: 11.11.09 1542.26
Is there a reason Sabu is ranked above RVD? Has he found some fountain of youth and muscle regeneration to magically restore him to pre-1995 form, or is the list just that fucked up?
DEAN RASMUSSEN
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#37 Posted on 12.11.02 0842.42
Reposted on: 12.11.09 0850.05

    Originally posted by Joe_G
    "Just curious, what has Ian Rotten been doing to rate thatclose to the Top 50?"

    Ian dropped the garbage stuff and adopted a quasi shoot style. I've seen two of his highly pimped matches (against Chris Hero and Tarek the Great) and they were totally centered around mat work and stiff strikes. Not even a clothesline or anything. I think his rankings too high but I see where they're coming from.

    Joe



DR: It's probably too high since it's really just a variation on the wave of quasi-shoot stuff that Low-ki and American Dragon started doing in the US indies two years ago- but the fact that it is more carney and SOOOO amazingly dirtbag and weird- ESPECIALLY considering that we all figured Rotten was the worst wrestler on earth for the last 7 years- it gives him a batch of spots. And the fact that he wrestled Chris Hero four times in the time period helped.

DEAN.
Mandark
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#38 Posted on 12.11.02 1113.08
Reposted on: 12.11.09 1126.19
Spiff: I'm talking about what they've done in the last six months, and I think saying that everything Kurt's done has been in the WWE style is oversimplifying it.

The most "WWE style" stuff Kurt's done are the Edge match from Judgment Day and the tag matches he did back in May (usually against Edge or with Jericho), since they were generally 7-8 minute formula tag matches with craziness and cheating at the end. Kurt's match with Cena that begat that awesome six man probably fits into that category too.

Kurt's matches against Rey and Kidman were bumpfests and showcases for creative spots, a lot closer to working what could be called a cruiserweight style than anything Benoit's done this year. Beniot's match against Rey had some similarities, but he had to rely entirely on crunchy suplexes and tone down his selling for Rey because he just can't bump like that these days.

Against Benoit, it was a big old matfest, which is really thanks to both guys, but the shooty amateur stuff is clearly all Kurt. In any case, it was very different from his stuff against Edge or Rey or Mark Henry.

The most recent singles match he had against Edge, the Smackdown after the Edge/Eddy ladder match, was a simpler, stiffer match. Angle used a snug bodyscissors/bearhug combo and then started digging his chin into Edge's head, just plain punted him in the ribs as he was getting up, and laid some nice punches in during an abdominal stretch. I actually think this is the match Dean compared to Puerto Rico/70's US style wrassling, in which case I should probably get tapes of that stuff.

Also, in his singles match against Eddy, Kurt was working as a face, something Benoit hasn't done since he came back from injury.

This isn't to say Benoit hasn't had variety in his matches either (hell, Benoit's been involved with a bunch of Kurt's matches as a tag partner or opponent), but I just think Kurt has adapted to his opponents more than Benoit in the last six months and the result has been a wider range of wrestling.
darkdragoon
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#39 Posted on 14.11.02 2116.40
Reposted on: 14.11.09 2116.44
Kurt's added a couple interesting things (flying forearm, that bodyscissors chinlock) but other than that he's still doing pretty much the same although he executes it perfectly which is all I ask for--if you're gonna do it, do it right. But Eddie's been on fire since he came back and Benoit's bringing in some old stuff and new here and there, the gutbuster on Rey had me thinking Malenko had posessed him temporarily or something.
Eddie Famous
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#40 Posted on 14.11.02 2302.06
Reposted on: 15.11.09 0030.18
Yay! No Test!

Yay! George South!
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