The W
Views: 99122016
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
22.9.07 0313
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - An Idea that could appeal to Marks and Smarts
This thread has 1 referral leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next(7824 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (42 total)
StaggerLee
Scrapple
Level: 140

Posts: 66/6297
EXP: 33037895
For next: 248592

Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 8 min.
#21 Posted on 10.10.02 1711.29
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1718.15
You know I dont think the WWE has enough heels of African American descent. So, what do you say, we put some guys who arent used often in Black face and parade them out as black people. Sure, they may not actually BE black, but if they LOOK sorta black, it isnt racist at all! I mean, when HHH played THE CROCK, that wasnt racist at all now, it was just good clean DX fun. So, why not just paint a bunch of white guys black, and just let them come out and be heels.
MoeGates
Andouille
Level: 88

Posts: 671/2104
EXP: 6574872
For next: 75818

Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 33 days
Last activity: 4 days
#22 Posted on 10.10.02 1717.56
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1718.18
Not to mention they probably wont mind playing a role of a person who in reality they probably dont like, since the Japanese and Chinese have a long history of hating each other.

You think Sargent Slaughter would have "in reality" loved his Iraqi-defector character? How about Ted DiBiase and his "Million-Dollar Man" character? Or how about any heel? They're not SUPPOSED to like their character "in reality" because their character is the BAD GUY. Jeez.

Americans have played Russians in Pro-Wrestling forever, despite the fact that at the time out two countries "hated each other." Saying that a Japanese person would be offended to be asked to play a Chinese character because they "hate each other" (which is painting with a pretty broad brush) is the silliest thing I ever heard.

As for them "looking alike," as was pointed out before, there are plenty of actors that have played characters of different (sometimes vastly different) ethnicities. You're going to take away Ben Kingsly's Oscar for "Gandhi" because he's not Indian? (If I'm mistaken and he is Indian, I refer you to "Schindler's List.")

The bigger problem would be getting a Japanese wrestler to play a Chinese wrestler (they really don'y look all that similar, and they hate comparisons to one another). Their cultures are vastly different. No one says "same thing" when speaking of France and America even though they speak a similar language, but Chinese and Japanese are "the same thing" to many people here.

Since when is a wrestler a cultural emmisary? Is the guy who played Nikiti Koloff supposed to know how to dance the Khazatzki? No one says the "same thing" when speaking of France and America, however, nobody in their right mind would have a problem with a French guy playing an American in Pro-Wrestling either. It's not like J.R. is announcing "well I'm not sure if that Joe Commie is Chinese or Japanese, but who cares, it's all the same." It's far more racist to suggest that someone can only play the part of someone of his/her ethnicity than to suggest that they could play other parts as well.

As for "gerring a Japanese wrestler to play a Chinese wrestler?" Last time I checked, most wrestlers jump at the chance to play ANY character for a national promotion. You have guys agreeing to play charactatures of the most despicable people imaginable. You have guys agreeing to play characters that make them look like utter idiots. And you think you're going to have a hard time getting someone to play a Chinese character?

That all being said, having a Chinese Commie heel in the WWE right now is the second silliest thing I ever heard. The Cold War's over guys, there's a lot better ways to get cheap heat. On the other hand, Canadians have been our buddies forever, and they generate great cheap heat, so maybe it'd work.



(edited by MoeGates on 10.10.02 1836)
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong
Level: 81

Posts: 165/1759
EXP: 4912643
For next: 80227

Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1284 days
Last activity: 50 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#23 Posted on 10.10.02 1725.11
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1729.03
Talk about not making sense-
Who mentioned Tajiri and Funaki? No one said that they were the ones to be used in such a hypothetical angle- rather other Japaneese talent from the GIANT POOL OF IT IN JAPAN!
I have not claimed that it is necessary a good idea to run such an angle or not, the point is, it is simply not racist to suggest it, or to do it.
And who knows... the WWE has not had the balls to do an angle like this in a long time. Sure it might piss off some of the "too smart for their own goods," but the marks would eat it up-
And that whole "black face" crack... get real. The "black face make-up IS racist... not only because it is deliberaty applied so that the character looks ridiculous, it has severe racist undertones due to the fact that such make-up was always used to demonstrate just how dumb or low a black man was supposed to be. But there is noting racist about a white ACTOR applying realistic make-up to his skin to make it appear darker, so he can play a black man. The difference is in the presentation, you idiot. It is not racism if an actor from one race plays someone from another race.... it IS racism if that is done to belittle and slander.
Racism... please... get the hell off your pedestal and take a reality pill....

(edited by Pool-Boy on 10.10.02 1531)

(edited by Pool-Boy on 10.10.02 1535)
The Sham
Kolbasz
Level: 46

Posts: 185/468
EXP: 688692
For next: 23087

Since: 20.1.02
From: Hamden, CT

Since last post: 1694 days
Last activity: 1046 days
#24 Posted on 10.10.02 1743.54
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1745.02

    Originally posted by InVerse
    Jackie Chan is Chinese yet he plays a Japanese character in Rush Hour.


No, Jackie Chan played a Hong Kong Detective. Hong Kong was once a British territory and is now Chinese, but the people there have always been of Chinese descent.

Other points: WWE does not have just a lack of black heels, they have a lack of black wrestlers. Faarooq, the Godfather, D-Von, D'Lo and the Rock have all been heels. I don't recall Mark Henry ever being a heel, however, and Shelton Benjamin has no character yet. -- The black-face charcters would have to be faces -- I assume you were kidding about that anyway, Stagger Lee.

The angle in question isn't racist, just stupid.

StaggerLee
Scrapple
Level: 140

Posts: 67/6297
EXP: 33037895
For next: 248592

Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 8 min.
#25 Posted on 10.10.02 1757.05
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1758.46

    I assume you were kidding about that anyway, Stagger Lee.
Finally, somebody who "Get's it".

Oh, and pool boy, relax pal. I am not on a pedistal, I just think that anybody with a little knowledge of history would see why putting one up to be the other might not go over well.

Sorta like asking Arrafat to play a Jew. But, I digress.
InVerse
Bierwurst
Level: 83

Posts: 146/1863
EXP: 5339569
For next: 92675

Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#26 Posted on 10.10.02 1827.03
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1827.20

    Originally posted by The Sham
    I don't recall Mark Henry ever being a heel

    The black-face charcters would have to be faces



Henry was a heel when he was in The Nation of Domination and Booker T was a heel when he first came in as well.

But for that matter, how many rich white guys have been portrayed as faces? McMahon, on occasion, but even as a face he still portrayed an asshole.

And we already had half of a black-face um... face. Roddy Piper during his feud with Bad New Brown.

My bad on the Rush Hour mistake. I was thinking he was from Tokyo, not Hong Kong, for some reason. He did play a Japanese character in Canonball Run, though, and probably some other movies.
NotTripleH
Cotto
Level: 16

Posts: 1/45
EXP: 19942
For next: 315

Since: 10.10.02
From: SF, CA

Since last post: 4296 days
Last activity: 4296 days
#27 Posted on 10.10.02 2025.52
Reposted on: 10.10.09 2029.02

    Other points: WWE does not have just a lack of black heels, they have a lack of black wrestlers. Faarooq, the Godfather, D-Von, D'Lo and the Rock have all been heels. I don't recall Mark Henry ever being a heel, however, and Shelton Benjamin has no character yet. -- The black-face charcters would have to be faces -- I assume you were kidding about that anyway, Stagger Lee.

    The angle in question isn't racist, just stupid.




I do believe Mark Henry was heel at least one other time. It was right after he cost D'lo Brown the Euro-Contenental Championship. I don't think that the decision to turnhim was racist however.
NotAWrestler
Pinkelwurst
Level: 13

Posts: 21/27
EXP: 9305
For next: 962

Since: 6.9.02

Since last post: 4332 days
Last activity: 4324 days
#28 Posted on 10.10.02 2226.45
Reposted on: 10.10.09 2227.16
Also, I don't know much about wrestling overseas, but it seems like it'd be difficult to find many actual Chinese wrestler (though y'never know, Japanese wrestling might be full of the buggers, just all the ones I hear about are either American or natives). So making this hypothetical communist stable would necessitate using Japanese and passing them off as Chinese, unless, like I said, there's a plethora of Chinese professional wrestlers and I just never heard of them.

And Chinese has one "e", people.
MoeGates
Andouille
Level: 88

Posts: 673/2104
EXP: 6574872
For next: 75818

Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 33 days
Last activity: 4 days
#29 Posted on 11.10.02 0035.32
Reposted on: 11.10.09 0035.40
Sorta like asking Arrafat to play a Jew. But, I digress.

No, that would be like asking Emporer Akihito to play a Chinese character. You really think your average Jewish actor would be offended if asked to play a Arabic character, or vise-versa? Or a British actor and an Irish character? Or an Indian actor and a Pakistani character? Or whatever other two ethnic groups that might have a chance of reasonably physically passing for each other, that have a history of animosity? These are professionals. This is their job. I mean, they got someone to play Bastion Booger.
redsoxnation
Scrapple
Level: 152

Posts: 529/7534
EXP: 43587529
For next: 714233

Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 448 days
Last activity: 448 days
#30 Posted on 11.10.02 0812.55
Reposted on: 11.10.09 0820.16

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    Sorta like asking Arrafat to play a Jew. But, I digress.

    No, that would be like asking Emporer Akihito to play a Chinese character. You really think your average Jewish actor would be offended if asked to play a Arabic character, or vise-versa? Or a British actor and an Irish character? Or an Indian actor and a Pakistani character? Or whatever other two ethnic groups that might have a chance of reasonably physically passing for each other, that have a history of animosity? These are professionals. This is their job. I mean, they got someone to play Bastion Booger.




In terms of actors playing roles of groups they hate: Werner Klemperrer played a Nazi Commandant in the 1960's, and he was Jewish. The original idea for the post was simple: The smarts want Japanese wrestlers in the WWE to provide workrate, however, Vince won't go for it because he doesn't know how to market them to the marks. Perhaps I should have just said 'have someone come out and say Tajiri and Funaki murdered imaginary people,' oh wait, their not hosses, so they can't even get idiotic angles.
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst
Level: 29

Posts: 103/162
EXP: 139197
For next: 8689

Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3839 days
Last activity: 3835 days
#31 Posted on 11.10.02 0844.09
Reposted on: 11.10.09 0846.39

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Before we go through the hell of Soap Opera Land, there is one tried and through theory of wrestling that can be used to garner a reaction from the fanbase. COMMUNISTS. Yes, bring back the evil Commie wrestler. Now, now, I know what your saying: The Soviet Union and Eastern Europe aren't communist anymore, so the evil Russians like Ivan Koloff and Nickle and Dime Volkoff are not relevant. To that I say true, but, there is another Communist country whose evil has not been tapped for pro wrestling: China.
    By using an Asian Communist nation as a foil, Vietnam becomes fair game for heel promos, as well as reading what the Chairman of the Party will do to worthless capitalists.
    Now, who would fill these roles: Japanese wrestlers. It would make all sides happy, as the marks would have reason to hate this Red Menace, while the Smarts would be able to see a push for workrate. Thus, don't give us murder angles, give us Tajiri is a Maoist angle.



Let's tweek the idea slightly.

How's about a guy who accuses everyone of being a Communist? Especially the faces?

Alternatively, why Chinese or Japanese? Why not either have a Cuban out, or even an American? I mean hell, make up a fictional name for the stable - "United Socialist Party of America" or something. Have a guy come out and basically act as if the last 50 years of planned ecconomy failure have never happend, and talk about how that "Evil Capitalist" Vince McMahon (or Steph, or Bischoff) is screwing the workers, and have them hold up Austin as their hero.

This polarizes the roster between those who hate McMahon to the point the USPA seem the lesser of 2 evils, and those who hate McMahon but hate the Commies more. Heaps of angles and political statements you could make tongue in cheek. It ends with the Commish admitting it was all a scam to get the wrestlers on his side and find out who are the biggest traitors. Big traitors are forced to the other show.
VK Wallstreet
Goetta
Level: 38

Posts: 241/300
EXP: 347736
For next: 22714

Since: 18.6.02
From: New York, NY, USA

Since last post: 4307 days
Last activity: 4306 days
#32 Posted on 11.10.02 0914.23
Reposted on: 11.10.09 0915.16

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    In terms of actors playing roles of groups they hate: Werner Klemperrer played a Nazi Commandant in the 1960's, and he was Jewish.
Actually, every single regular Nazi on Hogan's Heroes was played by a Jewish actor. I guess that's the only way you can get away with making a sitcom about lovable Nazis. I realize this is completely irrelevant to everything, but it's my favorite TV fact of all time, so I had to say it.
Fantomas
Polska kielbasa
Level: 26

Posts: 128/130
EXP: 100464
For next: 1813

Since: 23.2.02
From: New York

Since last post: 4362 days
Last activity: 2958 days
#33 Posted on 11.10.02 1445.36
Reposted on: 11.10.09 1445.53

    Originally posted by emma

      Originally posted by Fantomas
      Actually I was thinking, everytime you hear about one of these political protests like the World Bank Summit or whatever the hell it was, a group dubbed as "Anarchists" come and take things too far. I think an Anarchist might make for a very cool wrestling character.

      Although it doesn't make sense for people who believe in Anarchy to band together and work towards a goal.



    "I told you, we're an anarchosyndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. The decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a 2/3 majority in the case of ..."
    ...
    "Come & see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" (An obvious HHH reference if ever I heard one!!)

    I suppose the WWE would have some problems getting rights to those characters though, eh?



If only a giant foot prop could squish HHH on an upcoming Raw, allowing someone to get a clean pin...

Wait, Python probably doesn't appeal to the "casual" fan... See casual fans want MURDER and SECRET PASTS! And WWE seem pretty cheap as far as rights go.. I mean, I'm still blown away that they never got the rights to "Walk" by Pantera for RVD. How much could that possibly cost??

And please, people, stop LOOKING for stuff to scream RACIST about. I mean, really. Yes there's racism all over the world. No you can't change a person's racist views by posting on a WRESTLING FORUM.

Scorpio
Boudin rouge
Level: 48

Posts: 381/525
EXP: 815742
For next: 7806

Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3833 days
Last activity: 3784 days
#34 Posted on 11.10.02 1548.42
Reposted on: 11.10.09 1554.59

    Originally posted by AJ_Levy
    This polarizes the roster between those who hate McMahon to the point the USPA seem the lesser of 2 evils, and those who hate McMahon but hate the Commies more. Heaps of angles and political statements you could make tongue in cheek. It ends with the Commish admitting it was all a scam to get the wrestlers on his side and find out who are the biggest traitors. Big traitors are forced to the other show.


We could even call them... the UnAmericans.

People are too apathetic these days to get behind a political angle. And our storylines, despite how it seems, are more complex in the post-modern, post-Attitude era. Note there's not even any pure evil villians anymore. Regal comes closest, and he went pretty face during that InVasion business.
zeroquasi
Pinkelwurst
Level: 13

Posts: 1/28
EXP: 9787
For next: 480

Since: 11.10.02
From: Salt Lake City, UT

Since last post: 2876 days
Last activity: 2752 days
#35 Posted on 11.10.02 1759.25
Reposted on: 11.10.09 1801.08
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    My point was, the two races DONT LIKE EACH OTHER.


As a half Japanese, half Chinese America-born citizen, I guess I must have a lot of issues going on, eh?


For the record, I always thought KaiENtai was *gold*, but that's just me. Of course this from the guy who thought it'd be *gold* to wear my EVIL Japanese WWF.com T-shirt to the opening day of Pearl Harbor...as awful as that movie was I still felt like a jackass by the end of it.

~zero~

*LOL* oh yeah, almost forgot Noble playing Jamie-san in the Jung Dragons back in 'ol dub-cee-dub...how do you figure THAT out? /ad sarcasm

(edited by zeroquasi on 11.10.02 1601)
InVerse
Bierwurst
Level: 83

Posts: 163/1863
EXP: 5339569
For next: 92675

Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#36 Posted on 11.10.02 1806.11
Reposted on: 11.10.09 1806.22

    Originally posted by zeroquasi
    ...as awful as that movie was I still felt like a jackass by the end of it.


I would have felt like a jackass if I'd paid to see that movie too. As it was, I was highly amused when my old remote bought it on DVD and his X-Box refused to play it under any circumstances, forcing him to hook up his old DVD player. (The X-Box never had a problem with any other movie.)
redsoxnation
Scrapple
Level: 152

Posts: 545/7534
EXP: 43587529
For next: 714233

Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 448 days
Last activity: 448 days
#37 Posted on 11.10.02 1819.41
Reposted on: 11.10.09 1823.28

    Originally posted by zeroquasi
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
      My point was, the two races DONT LIKE EACH OTHER.


    As a half Japanese, half Chinese America-born citizen, I guess I must have a lot of issues going on, eh?


    For the record, I always thought KaiENtai was *gold*, but that's just me. Of course this from the guy who thought it'd be *gold* to wear my EVIL Japanese WWF.com T-shirt to the opening day of Pearl Harbor...as awful as that movie was I still felt like a jackass by the end of it.

    ~zero~

    *LOL* oh yeah, almost forgot Noble playing Jamie-san in the Jung Dragons back in 'ol dub-cee-dub...how do you figure THAT out? /ad sarcasm

    (edited by zeroquasi on 11.10.02 1601)






Now, if they had gone with the Vince Russo version of the script, where it was a transvestite hooker named Pearl who got jumped at a harbor, then the movie might have had a better reception. Oh wait, thats next weeks RAW's surprising ending.
Mild Mannered Madman
Toulouse
Level: 71

Posts: 322/1274
EXP: 3079991
For next: 87138

Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 438 days
Last activity: 156 days
#38 Posted on 11.10.02 1820.06
Reposted on: 11.10.09 1825.54
Hiroshi Hase, a Japanese man, portrayed a member of the VietCong Express while he wrestled for Stu Hart's Stampede in Calgary.
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst
Level: 29

Posts: 104/162
EXP: 139197
For next: 8689

Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3839 days
Last activity: 3835 days
#39 Posted on 11.10.02 2001.44
Reposted on: 11.10.09 2003.57

    Originally posted by Scorpio

      Originally posted by AJ_Levy
      This polarizes the roster between those who hate McMahon to the point the USPA seem the lesser of 2 evils, and those who hate McMahon but hate the Commies more. Heaps of angles and political statements you could make tongue in cheek. It ends with the Commish admitting it was all a scam to get the wrestlers on his side and find out who are the biggest traitors. Big traitors are forced to the other show.


    We could even call them... the UnAmericans.

    People are too apathetic these days to get behind a political angle. And our storylines, despite how it seems, are more complex in the post-modern, post-Attitude era. Note there's not even any pure evil villians anymore. Regal comes closest, and he went pretty face during that InVasion business.



Well the American unAmerican Commies anyway. Shame the WWF decided to split the unAmericans up, because you could have had a situation where 2 unAmericans side with the Commies (the International Socialists? The International Socialist Tendancy), while the other 2 admit to just hating America but ultraleftism is going to far, and thus siding with the McMahon faction.

Personally I think it'd be worth it just to see the look on Mushnick's face when he hears that, in the WWF, the UnAmerican stable was split between two who sympathize with Socialism but aren't Socialist and 2 who hate America but think Socialism is going to far. Thus being accused of being "Capitalist Sympathizers" or "Weak kneed liberals".

Meanwhile a guy siding with the "Capitalist Corporation" or whatever you call the McMahon stable gets heel heat by calling people in his own stable Communist and talking about infiltration. You could almost make him a Macarthay-esque character.

You could then set up a 3rd group in between called "The Moderates" who get attacked by both extremes, and sometimes have the Capitalists and Commies team up to attack them.

This is absolutely shades of gray booking if you do it like this, rather than have the good "McMahon sympathizers" and the evil "Commies" (ie straight out black and white). Also, when people talk about "High-brow entertainment" the sorts of shows they talk about include the West Wing, or the British "Yes Minister". Politics is a high-brow topic and tackling it would go a long way towards smashing the "Fake sport people in trailer parks" watch.

Hell, you could make the main storyline just "liberals vs conservatives vs libertarians vs greens" and get really divided crowds.
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst
Level: 103

Posts: 531/3027
EXP: 11208666
For next: 262779

Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#40 Posted on 11.10.02 2238.39
Reposted on: 11.10.09 2250.04

    Originally posted by AJ_Levy
    Hell, you could make the main storyline just "liberals vs conservatives vs libertarians vs greens" and get really divided crowds.


Well, I'd pay good money to see that, but I don't think anyone else would.
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 NextThread ahead: I saw Molly at WWE World
Next thread: ***SPOILERS*** Smackdown Taping Report
Previous thread: Curse of the Raw roster!
(7824 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - An Idea that could appeal to Marks and SmartsRegister and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.331 seconds.