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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - An Idea that could appeal to Marks and Smarts
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redsoxnation
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#1 Posted on 10.10.02 1103.50
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1111.14
Before we go through the hell of Soap Opera Land, there is one tried and through theory of wrestling that can be used to garner a reaction from the fanbase. COMMUNISTS. Yes, bring back the evil Commie wrestler. Now, now, I know what your saying: The Soviet Union and Eastern Europe aren't communist anymore, so the evil Russians like Ivan Koloff and Nickle and Dime Volkoff are not relevant. To that I say true, but, there is another Communist country whose evil has not been tapped for pro wrestling: China.
By using an Asian Communist nation as a foil, Vietnam becomes fair game for heel promos, as well as reading what the Chairman of the Party will do to worthless capitalists.
Now, who would fill these roles: Japanese wrestlers. It would make all sides happy, as the marks would have reason to hate this Red Menace, while the Smarts would be able to see a push for workrate. Thus, don't give us murder angles, give us Tajiri is a Maoist angle.
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#2 Posted on 10.10.02 1119.29
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1121.15
As good as that is, the WWE would be slapped with millions of complaints from the PC crowds-
You can't do it anymore in this age of rampant sensitivity. And it is BS... The last really "ethnic" type heel I can remember that fit into that mold was Berlyn - and that only flew because he was white (cuz it is OK to stereotype white people)... Berlyn was cool though....
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#3 Posted on 10.10.02 1121.28
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1123.08
That's a terrible idea.
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#4 Posted on 10.10.02 1228.27
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1229.01

    Originally posted by The Amazing Salami
    That's a terrible idea.


Oh, Its worse than TERRIBLE! Its Insensitive, RACISTS, and plain UNPLAUSABLE! That being said, I am sure Vince will hop right on it!
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#5 Posted on 10.10.02 1230.04
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1243.08
See what I mean?
Let me ask all of you something... how is that idea Racist? I mean, aside from the question of whether or not it can be pulled off... why can't a Communist Chineese be a heel? Last time I checked, China was communist, and their policies are definitly questionable (human rights? etc?)- so a Chineese patriot could very well be a heel....
Come on, can only White Americans be portrayed as villians? Racism is a term too easily flung around nowadays, and it certainly has no place in wrestling. How is Berlyn not racist, while the Loyal Chineese Communist wrestler is racist? A heel is a damned heel, dammit.

(edited by Pool-Boy on 10.10.02 1036)
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#6 Posted on 10.10.02 1245.17
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1251.19

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    See what I mean?
    Come on, can only White Americans be portrayed as villians? Racism is a term too easily flung around nowadays, and it certainly has no place in wrestling. How is Berlyn not racist, while the Loyal Chineese Communist wrestler is racist? A heel is a damned heel, dammit.

    (edited by Pool-Boy on 10.10.02 1036)



You are right, a heel is a heel, so why does he have to be a CHINESE COMMUNIST HEEL?

Berlin wasnt RACIST because he came out and was putting AMERICA down, not blacks, mexicans or canadians (sorry had to include them! LOL!)

See the difference? WHo was the GREATEST heel of all time? (In your opinion) Was he white or not? DId it matter?

To me, the best heel ever was Ric Flair when he was a heel in the 4 horsemen. He let his HEELness get him over. Not a gimmick.

ANd, dont you think it is RACIST to assume that all people think that Japanese people and Chinese people are the same? They don't even look the same, so why make a Japanese guy play a chinese guy, and expect us to believe it? Oh, thats right "they all look alike".
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#7 Posted on 10.10.02 1326.46
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1327.07
Ric was a good heel, but the best ever was (The Original) Georgeous George. He'd delay the start of the match, he had a valet with a huge purfume thing. He'd cheat to win. He rolled out of the ring. He was just a huge heel. It was the only role he ever played.I give it up for Adrian Adonis in a similar role 30 years after GG. Great, but a copy.

And I vote second place to Ric Flair, who I consider the originator of the heel stable.Though I am sure the bookers (and Dusty?) came up with the concept, it was Slick Ric and Ole who made it work.

And third. He's great right now, and if they would only let the man work. Lord Steven Regal. God, he's a great heel.
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#8 Posted on 10.10.02 1341.55
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1345.19

    Originally posted by StaggerLee

      Originally posted by Pool-Boy
      See what I mean?
      Come on, can only White Americans be portrayed as villians? Racism is a term too easily flung around nowadays, and it certainly has no place in wrestling. How is Berlyn not racist, while the Loyal Chineese Communist wrestler is racist? A heel is a damned heel, dammit.

      (edited by Pool-Boy on 10.10.02 1036)



    You are right, a heel is a heel, so why does he have to be a CHINESE COMMUNIST HEEL?

    Berlin wasnt RACIST because he came out and was putting AMERICA down, not blacks, mexicans or canadians (sorry had to include them! LOL!)

    See the difference? WHo was the GREATEST heel of all time? (In your opinion) Was he white or not? DId it matter?

    To me, the best heel ever was Ric Flair when he was a heel in the 4 horsemen. He let his HEELness get him over. Not a gimmick.

    ANd, dont you think it is RACIST to assume that all people think that Japanese people and Chinese people are the same? They don't even look the same, so why make a Japanese guy play a chinese guy, and expect us to believe it? Oh, thats right "they all look alike".





Then was it wrong for a guy from Minnesota to play the Russian Nightmare Nikita Koloff sent from the Central Committee of Soviet Sports to destroy American Pro Wrestlers? Communists and Nazis were heat getters for about 50 years, I'd rather go back to that tried and true method than 'He killed this imaginary woman.'
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#9 Posted on 10.10.02 1407.51
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1418.04
It depends on your definition of racist. Did anyone here actually think Kientai was funny. Many did, I'd wager. I thought it was quite offensive. Everyone Japanese has to be shifty, talk like they're in a Godzilla movie, and be a heel. I'd like to see ONE Japanese babyface (preferably one with a thorough knowledge of the English language) and see how people react.

We're talking about the same company where Tiger Ali Singh's turban wearing character is characterized by Jim Ross with the line: "He needs to go drive his taxi." And that's not racist? I don't like to throw the term around either, but these are clear examples of racism.

I don't think this proposed storyline in particular is racist, however. The bigger problem would be getting a Japanese wrestler to play a Chinese wrestler (they really don'y look all that similar, and they hate comparisons to one another). Their cultures are vastly different. No one says "same thing" when speaking of France and America even though they speak a similar language, but Chinese and Japanese are "the same thing" to many people here. Disgusting.
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#10 Posted on 10.10.02 1423.20
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1423.21
I agree wrestling is very backwards in terms of racism, what with the "Eddie Guerrero Mowed My Lawn" signs all over the place. I dunno about the communist angle anymore, people's views on communism have changed a bit, what with the cold war over and everything.

Actually I was thinking, everytime you hear about one of these political protests like the World Bank Summit or whatever the hell it was, a group dubbed as "Anarchists" come and take things too far. I think an Anarchist might make for a very cool wrestling character.

Although it doesn't make sense for people who believe in Anarchy to band together and work towards a goal.
emma
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#11 Posted on 10.10.02 1521.55
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1525.07

    Originally posted by Fantomas
    Actually I was thinking, everytime you hear about one of these political protests like the World Bank Summit or whatever the hell it was, a group dubbed as "Anarchists" come and take things too far. I think an Anarchist might make for a very cool wrestling character.

    Although it doesn't make sense for people who believe in Anarchy to band together and work towards a goal.



"I told you, we're an anarchosyndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. The decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a 2/3 majority in the case of ..."
...
"Come & see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" (An obvious HHH reference if ever I heard one!!)

I suppose the WWE would have some problems getting rights to those characters though, eh?
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#12 Posted on 10.10.02 1526.27
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1526.52
See, there are subtle differences in every argument presented here. Look at it this way.
I am Scottish by descent. But to look at me, I could be German, French... any Northern European sub-sect of "White."
Japaneese and Chineese DO look similar. Yes, an intelligent person can tell the difference. But sugesting that Japaneese wrestlers play the part of the Communist Chineese, many of you are screaming racist. I am sorry, it is not. Why? Because it is not meant in ANY degrogatory fashion. It is not so far fetched to have a Japaneese man play ANY asian nationality. It is like The Rock being up for that Hawaiian king part, even though he is not Hawaiian. It is like Mel Gibson playing William Wallace, and he is not even close to Scottish! They are playing a part, and the only reason you think it is racist is because the part happens to be heel.
He suggested using the Japaneese wrestlers because there is a wealth of talent in the industry there, and it would be a good showcase for them in the American market, and a real excuse to bring them there. Yes, CHINEESE AND JAPANEESE LOOK ALIKE! They have similar features. Just like Germans and Irish and English and French ALL LOOK ALIKE! The trained eye can tell the difference, but it is passable enough for people from one race play a character from another.
The whole deal with Tiger Ali-Singh WAS racist. Look at it! They threw three guys out there with turbans, made no effort to make their ring attire realistic and interesting, nor to provide them with ANY logical motivation. They just made them heels. They were Heels because they were arab, no other reason. That was wrong. In this case, the wrestlers are Heel because they are Communists who hate America- basically the same gimmick the "Un-Americans" have had up until now (but no one called THAT racist). So they just happen to be Chineese (the characters). So what?
It all comes back to the idea that unless the bad guy is white, someone will find a way to scream racist. I am surprised we have not heard more of this about Ron Simmons and D'Von...


(edited by Pool-Boy on 10.10.02 1329)
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#13 Posted on 10.10.02 1603.05
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1604.14
You are right pool boy, nothing at all wrong about having Japanese wrestlers perform as Chinese Communists. You know, since you say they look alike, its okay. Not to mention they probably wont mind playing a role of a person who in reality they probably dont like, since the Japanese and Chinese have a long history of hating each other.

Hell, while we're at it, lets turn Rosie, Jamal and the Rock into raw fish eating, grass skirt wearing full blown SAMOANS! Hell, havent had any of those lately.

ANd, why not bring back Kamala, or better yet, get a group of fat black guys, and say they are all from the bushes and let them run around, eating chickens, that are alive, on tv, and painting moons and stars on their bellies. Hell, I bet Vince could even get one of them to put one of those big plates in his lip! WOW! Cant you just feel the heat!

(edited by StaggerLee on 10.10.02 1404)

(edited by StaggerLee on 10.10.02 1425)
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#14 Posted on 10.10.02 1619.35
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1628.51

    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    You are right pool boy, nothing at all about having Japanese wrestlers perform as Chinese Communists.


In case you're unaware, wrestling isn't real and the characters they play are nothing more than roles. Japanese & Chinese actors play characters who aren't of their race all the time. Jackie Chan is Chinese yet he plays a Japanese character in Rush Hour. Does that make Jackie Chan a racist?

But let's make it simpler on everyone. We'll make it a Cuban communist and Scott Hall can play the part.
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#15 Posted on 10.10.02 1625.21
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1629.03
WOw, wrestling ISNT real? You mean that Darren Drozdov guy can really walk? Its all just a show?

My point was, the two races DONT LIKE EACH OTHER. Ask a Indian guy to play an Italian, see if he goes for it.

Or better yet, get a devout Christian man, say Ted Dibease or Sting to play a satan worshiper. I mean, its just acting right? They shouldnt have a problem with it!

A heel should be a heel because of his actions, not the color of his skin, or his nationality.
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#16 Posted on 10.10.02 1639.00
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1643.35

    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    My point was, the two races DONT LIKE EACH OTHER.


So you're saying that every single Japanese person thinks alike?
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#17 Posted on 10.10.02 1644.34
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1649.41
My point is, if I had said "CATS AND DOGS DONT LIKE EACH OHTER" would you still be bitching about it? The two nationalities have a VERY strong history of not liking each other. Next time I will add an * and say at the bottom, NOT 100% of the people feel this way" if it will make you feel better.
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#18 Posted on 10.10.02 1648.32
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1659.01

    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    You are right pool boy, nothing at all about having Japanese wrestlers perform as Chinese Communists. You know, since you say they look alike, its okay. Not to mention they probably wont mind playing a role of a person who in reality they probably dont like, since the Japanese and Chinese have a long history of hating each other.



That very STATEMENT is more racist than having Japaneese wrestlers playing Chineese! Lets look at it-
Average Japaneese Wrestler X-
"I refuse to play the part of a Chineese wrestler, because I hate the Chineese..."
How is that not a racist comment?
Yeah, lets put Roasie and Jamal in grass skirts and have them play Samoans! If the part calls for it, lets do it, if they could pull it off. While we are at it, lets take William Regal and make him an IRA terrorist wrestler. Of course that is fine- of course I doubt that I will hear you complain that the Irish and English hate each other, even though that is RIGHT in line with your argument.
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#19 Posted on 10.10.02 1649.56
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1659.03

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    It depends on your definition of racist. Did anyone here actually think Kientai was funny. Many did, I'd wager. I thought it was quite offensive. Everyone Japanese has to be shifty, talk like they're in a Godzilla movie, and be a heel. I'd like to see ONE Japanese babyface (preferably one with a thorough knowledge of the English language) and see how people react.

    We're talking about the same company where Tiger Ali Singh's turban wearing character is characterized by Jim Ross with the line: "He needs to go drive his taxi." And that's not racist? I don't like to throw the term around either, but these are clear examples of racism.

    I don't think this proposed storyline in particular is racist, however. The bigger problem would be getting a Japanese wrestler to play a Chinese wrestler (they really don'y look all that similar, and they hate comparisons to one another). Their cultures are vastly different. No one says "same thing" when speaking of France and America even though they speak a similar language, but Chinese and Japanese are "the same thing" to many people here. Disgusting.



A few points...

1) Kaientai *was* funny, because the stereotype they were exploiting had nothing to do with Japanese people. It was "a lot of Japanese movies are dubbed very poorly".

2) Tajiri wreslted as a face for most of the last year, only turning heel when it was realized that, at the time, Smackdown had *ZERO* heel cruiserweights. (This was before Noble's debut and Matt Hardy's jump.). I'd venture to say Funaki is a face right now. TAKA Michinoku was a face for virtually the entire time he was pushed in the WWF.


I do have to wonder, though, does anyone *honestly* think this is a good idea? Really? For all the talk about McMahon being "out of touch", your current great idea is to reinvent the evil communist character, even though the Cold War's been over for, what, thirteen years?

And, for all the talk about insulting our intelligence, we're supposed to suddenly forget that Tajiri and Funaki are JAPANESE, not Chinese. Do they look similar? Perhaps. That doesn't matter, though, because we're talking about characters who are ALREADY ESTABLISHED AS JAPANESE.

Jeebus, I thought Pool-Boy didn't make sense in the Politics folder.
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#20 Posted on 10.10.02 1700.40
Reposted on: 10.10.09 1708.51

    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    My point is, if I had said "CATS AND DOGS DONT LIKE EACH OHTER" would you still be bitching about it? The two nationalities have a VERY strong history of not liking each other. Next time I will add an * and say at the bottom, NOT 100% of the people feel this way" if it will make you feel better.


Ok, and that somehow makes having a Japanese actor play a Chinese character racist how? Are the populations of China & Japan going to be offended because someone of their race is playing a character of the other race? Nobody ever said the character was a heel because he was Chinese, the entire point was that he was communist (who presumably hated democracy.) The fact that he was Asian was due to the fact that the largest communist country on Earth is an Asian country. Seeing as how there's such a huge push for democracy and feelings of patriotism, a communist character would make a sensible heel.
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