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billnopus
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#41 Posted on 8.10.02 0744.58
Reposted on: 8.10.09 0746.43
I'm just glad that Bishoff didn't fill in the blank with
"Judy Bagwell".

This show did have some nice moments, but it leaves me with an uneasy feeling about what future shows will be like...
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#42 Posted on 8.10.02 0820.20
Reposted on: 8.10.09 0820.29
Can we please stop referring to Gerwitz as "Comic Book Guy?" On behalf of comic book fans everywhere, I don't want people automatically assuming that all comic book writing is this bad.
evilwaldo
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#43 Posted on 8.10.02 0912.58
Reposted on: 8.10.09 0914.20
I don't know. I didn't exactly like the show but didn't hate it. The ending left a bad taste in my mouth and the more I think of Eric the more his character seemed a bit tired or forced last night. He seemed to be more Vince than Eric.

vsp
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#44 Posted on 8.10.02 0916.28
Reposted on: 8.10.09 0916.59
My take:

* As far as the Wheel O' Fun went, I wish they'd made it obviously rigged in a funny way. Anyone remember the Prize Wheel that David Letterman used a few years ago? It'd spin at high speed and then [CLAMP!] stop dead on a cheap prize, or spin clockwise and suddenly reverse direction to land on a cheap prize.

* The cage match was there. The after-match angle wasn't. "I'm NOT a sucker!" JERICHO: REIGNING KING OF LAME FEUDS. Next week, Booker will call Jericho a sucka again, spill coffee on him, throw tampons at him, kick over some of Fozzy's amps and call him a murderer. Whoops -- getting ahead of myself there...

* "Holy Mick Foley!" was cute.

* Did Bautista jump before the Great Roster Freeze when I wasn't looking, or are they ignoring continuity again?

* A D'Lo sighting can never be a bad thing. The match was about as good as one could expect from a blindfold match.

* Regal/Goldust... let's put it this way. If they're going to put ridiculous camp in Raw's storylines, this is the way to do it -- deep in the undercard, brief, and with some memorable visuals.

* Thanks for coming out tonight, Tommy!

* Trish/Stacy was adequate, despite the stipulation.

* An Al Snow sighting AND a D'Lo sighting! It IS my lucky day. No head, no 7-10 Split spot, and a handful of blown spots, but decent filler nonetheless.

* Okay, minus five points for Lawler wrestling, minus twenty for a Godfather sighting, minus fifteen more for giving him a microphone, but plus ten for giving me a good opportunity to see how the Braves/Giants game was progressing.

* For some reason, Christian's new red tights had me thinking "Richard Simmons." No, that is not a good thing.

* Typical TLC mayhem, which is always enjoyable, no matter how Rube Goldberg-esque some of the spots are. No run-in the one time that it would make sense, but a fun match anyway.

* And an ending that made NO SENSE on MULTIPLE LEVELS.

Hey, seven guys just killed themselves for the amusement of the masses, taking ridiculous bumps in a PPV-worthy spectacle and giving the crowd a feel-good ending. The obvious follow-up? A complete non-sequitur that:

-- had nothing to do with the preceding match, the upcoming title vs. title match, any other match on the evening's card, or the heel beatdown of the Hurricane preceding the match

-- sent the crowd home with a feeling of "What the hell was THAT all about?" instead of "Hey, we just watched a helluva match!"

-- brought Kane's building face momentum to a screeching halt (at least he could've done the "Huh?" head-turn like he used to do when something confused him...)

-- [must not make a "building face momentum" joke. Must not...]

-- had all the subtlety of a two-ton manure heap in the middle of a ballroom.

Hey, wait -- I get it... Kane killed Katie Vick by SPILLING COFFEE on her and pushing Fozzy's amps onto her! CONTINUITY COMES TOGETHER!

Feh.
ges7184
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#45 Posted on 8.10.02 0918.43
Reposted on: 8.10.09 0919.05
The TLC match was more than enough to give this show a big thumbs up, regardless of what else happened. That last segment couldn't ruin the match. THIS show was still good. Now later shows, due to this angle, that's a different story (put me down with the "No good can come from this" crowd). But a one-liner doesn't take away from 20+ minutes of guys totally busting their ass in a great match.
JayJayDean
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#46 Posted on 8.10.02 0934.25
Reposted on: 8.10.09 0936.38

    Originally posted by vsp
    * And an ending that made NO SENSE on MULTIPLE LEVELS.

    Hey, seven guys just killed themselves for the amusement of the masses, taking ridiculous bumps in a PPV-worthy spectacle and giving the crowd a feel-good ending. The obvious follow-up? A complete non-sequitur that:

    -- had nothing to do with the preceding match, the upcoming title vs. title match, any other match on the evening's card, or the heel beatdown of the Hurricane preceding the match

    -- sent the crowd home with a feeling of "What the hell was THAT all about?" instead of "Hey, we just watched a helluva match!"

    -- brought Kane's building face momentum to a screeching halt (at least he could've done the "Huh?" head-turn like he used to do when something confused him...)

    -- [must not make a "building face momentum" joke. Must not...]

    -- had all the subtlety of a two-ton manure heap in the middle of a ballroom.

    Hey, wait -- I get it... Kane killed Katie Vick by SPILLING COFFEE on her and pushing Fozzy's amps onto her! CONTINUITY COMES TOGETHER!

    Feh.



I am a little bit curious as to how they are going to tie this in to the PPV hype, especially since the normal course of action after someone's been implicated in a murder involves judges, jail, and stuff and usually NOT a WWE Raw Heavyweight title match.
A-MOL
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#47 Posted on 8.10.02 0939.52
Reposted on: 8.10.09 0940.12

    Originally posted by JayJayDean

      Originally posted by vsp
      * And an ending that made NO SENSE on MULTIPLE LEVELS.

      Hey, seven guys just killed themselves for the amusement of the masses, taking ridiculous bumps in a PPV-worthy spectacle and giving the crowd a feel-good ending. The obvious follow-up? A complete non-sequitur that:

      -- had nothing to do with the preceding match, the upcoming title vs. title match, any other match on the evening's card, or the heel beatdown of the Hurricane preceding the match

      -- sent the crowd home with a feeling of "What the hell was THAT all about?" instead of "Hey, we just watched a helluva match!"

      -- brought Kane's building face momentum to a screeching halt (at least he could've done the "Huh?" head-turn like he used to do when something confused him...)

      -- [must not make a "building face momentum" joke. Must not...]

      -- had all the subtlety of a two-ton manure heap in the middle of a ballroom.

      Hey, wait -- I get it... Kane killed Katie Vick by SPILLING COFFEE on her and pushing Fozzy's amps onto her! CONTINUITY COMES TOGETHER!

      Feh.



    I am a little bit curious as to how they are going to tie this in to the PPV hype, especially since the normal course of action after someone's been implicated in a murder involves judges, jail, and stuff and usually NOT a WWE Raw Heavyweight title match.



Those things usually happen when someone is deliberately run over by a car, but this is the WWE, dammit!
humanmeal
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#48 Posted on 8.10.02 1012.14
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1016.04
Originally posted by It's False
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Booker carrying Big Slug in a cage?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Inverse added his second take on the match:
"It was a decent match with a good ending and a solid setup for a Jericho/Booker T feud. The Big Show is 7'2" 500lbs, why do people expect him to wrestle the same style as Benoit/Angle?"

I see you've gone from the flat assertion that it was a good match to saying it was 'decent' and had a good ending that set up an angle you're interested in. That's a lot more like the match *I* watched, though I'd say that it was a poor opener, and a poor cage match, rescued by its use to bring Jericho back up a notch/foreshadowing a run of good Jericho/Booker matches.

Really, if you're going to put a cage on one of WWE's huge rings for a Big Show match, you're blowing it to begin with. It should be CROWDED inside a cage with a 7'4" 515 lb. man, but instead Booker has to be ultracareful not to land/fall/end up too far away from Show.

And no one expects him to 'wrestle like Benoit.' We do expect him to be able to move, oh, one third as quickly as Benoit-- or get off our fuckin' screens. This is a lot like the NBA, where management's mistake at overpaying a player is run down the fans' throats to the detriment of the product, as opposed to the NFL, where if an overpaid player effs up two-three weeks in a row, he's gone, even if we're eating his salary for ten more years. (I know there are counter examples on boths sides of that comparison; I'm generalizing, so let's not waste everyone's time with them.)

mountinman44
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#49 Posted on 8.10.02 1023.09
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1023.54
The show was doing it for me until the end. Damn that HHH for ruining my show.
Divakind
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#50 Posted on 8.10.02 1110.18
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1115.16
All week long, I'd been thinking that RAW Roulette would just completely and totally suck out the ass, so you could say that NO expectations was the key phrase when clicking over to last night's show.

Dammit, I laughed when I watched it in spite of myself.

Showgirl match: Regal in drag is some of the funniest shit I've seen on the tube in a month of Sundays. Taking forever to get to the ring after losing one of his heels, I couldn't resist yelling, "All right, girlfriend, take the other one off and use it as a foreign object!"

Goldust sure as hell seemed home in his feathers, didn't he?
And did anyone else notice that Lance Storm seemed to be doing everything in his power to keep from looking at Regal as they walked up the ramp afterwards?

I've never liked "Fill in the blank" on a pole matches and hopefully after last night, we'll not be subjected to them again until "Uncle Eric" goes off to live in the bushes behind the 7-11.

Victoria/Trish: A couple of possibilities mentioned on here, including their common background from fitness modeling, could be fueling the fire of this feud. But something tells me this could be the full blown "HLA" angle and if so? Way to piss on the women's division just when it's starting to get really good!

AL SNOW BACK ON RAW!!!!! Call it a "Las Vegas Street Fight" if you want, but if it walks like a hardcore match and talks like a hardcore match, DAMMIT, IT'S A HARDCORE MATCH!! Marked out like a madwoman, I did.

This gives me hope that with Tough Enough about to launch on MTV, combined with the fact that Al can actually speak coherently, be funny and do a decent job of calling matches, that maybe, just maybe, they'll put him back on Sunday Night Heat! Hell, he's done it before, he could still wrestle on RAW; they let Raven do it until they made him a Heat exclusive talent!!

(Can you tell I'm still hoping for a way to get a competent announcer on that show? Either let Al do it, or I'm calling someone in Stamford & demanding an audition....what the hell, I'm in need of a new career, I've got nothin' to lose.)

Aside from that, would've been fun to see the 'ol 7-10 split on Test.

Liked the Bubba/Dreamer/Spike backstage vignette. Awww....

Note to JR: I do NOT care how long you and "Uncle Jerry" have been working together, I don't need images of either of you "going commando" in my head, stampeding over hormonally induced thoughts of RVD or Jericho!

Was anyone else expecting a Rosey & Jamal run-in of some sort? Halfway expected them to jump Kane after TLC4, but
NOOOOOOO........

Instead, we get Trippulaytch accusing Kane of being a murderer. Sheesh. Take a dump all over what was a thoroughly first rate main event with lotsa sick bumps, "holy shit" chants, and solid effort from all parties involved, why don't ya?

InVerse
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#51 Posted on 8.10.02 1132.16
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1134.11

    Originally posted by vsp
    Did Bautista jump before the Great Roster Freeze when I wasn't looking, or are they ignoring continuity again?



As was covered on Smackdown a couple of weeks ago, Batista was never signed to a Smackdown contract, he was an employee of Reverand D-Von. So when D-Von fired Batista, that made Batista a free agent. See, when they DO make an attempt at continuity, nobody catches it. (And that's not intended as a shot at vsp, I've seen more than a dozen ppl have no idea what was going on with this.)

And the HHH accusation makes perfect sense to me. As I said before (possibly in this same thread, I've lost track with the 10 or so threads bitching about this angle now) HHH knows full well that he can't beat Kane and after the Jericho match, he knows that simply having Flair to run interference isn't going to be enough. So he has to get into Kane's head. What better way to get into someone's head than to bring up something from their past that they want hidden? (And face it, it could have been much worse. Imagine if HHH had revealed that Kane was gay?)


    Originally posted by humanmeal
    I see you've gone from the flat assertion that it was a good match to saying it was 'decent' and had a good ending that set up an angle you're interested in. That's a lot more like the match *I* watched, though I'd say that it was a poor opener, and a poor cage match, rescued by its use to bring Jericho back up a notch/foreshadowing a run of good Jericho/Booker matches.


A 'decent' match and a 'good' match are pretty much the same thing to me. It means it wasn't a 'great' match but it wasn't 'horrible' either. I enjoyed the match. I enjoy most Big Show matches. The guy is 500lbs, he shouldn't have to be especially active, he should just stand there and beat the shit out of whoever he's facing. The entertainment should come from his opponent being forced to figure out how to get around someone so massive. I think The Big Show's biggest problem is not in his abilities but in the way he's been booked, but then that's the problem with a lot of people. I'd get more enjoyment out of a Big Show squash match than, say, RVD wrestling just about anyone. You don't like Big Show, fine. Other people do, and that's why he's still on your television screen.


-InVerse
Spiraling_Shape
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#52 Posted on 8.10.02 1134.53
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1138.51
Was anyone else expecting a Rosey & Jamal run-in of some sort?

Was this the first RAW since their debut that they were completely absent from? Rico too..and the spoilers say they weren`t on Heat either. Odd.
mountinman44
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#53 Posted on 8.10.02 1138.17
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1146.16
Did anyone notice the subtle shots at Mr. Nicole Bass last night? Bischoff slapping Stacy on the ass... backstage guy staring at Stacy's ass... very well done.
Torchslasher
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#54 Posted on 8.10.02 1201.50
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1209.42
THANK YOU InVerse!! I read all the crying about the HHH/murderer thing, and no one is even willing to hear this angle out. Instead, they are content to bitch about an angle that hasn't even really started yet. Maybe we will find out that HHH had lapdog Flair study Kane's past, and then when something came up, HHH had to use it (to make up for the fact that he's scared of facing Kane). Give it a chance people!

And along those lines, it's about time that the women get an angle. Trish is great, but the matches weren't going to get any better than they are now. So why not build up a wrestling feud another way?

If both of these "it's in the past" angles bomb, then you can bitch. Until then, let it be!

Oh yeah, and the cage match wasn't good, decent, above-average or any of those other descriptions. It was simply one of the worst cage matches in recent memory. Directionless Big Slow gets to have 99 % of the offense against Booker T, who has a PPV match with Jericho coming up. Booker should have won decisively.

(edited by Torchslasher on 8.10.02 1002)
InVerse
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#55 Posted on 8.10.02 1204.55
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1210.28

    Originally posted by mountinman44
    Did anyone notice the subtle shots at Mr. Nicole Bass last night? Bischoff slapping Stacy on the ass... backstage guy staring at Stacy's ass... very well done.


Don't they pretty much do that with one diva or another every week?
redsoxnation
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#56 Posted on 8.10.02 1233.17
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1238.49

    Originally posted by A-MOL

      Originally posted by JayJayDean

        Originally posted by vsp
        * And an ending that made NO SENSE on MULTIPLE LEVELS.

        Hey, seven guys just killed themselves for the amusement of the masses, taking ridiculous bumps in a PPV-worthy spectacle and giving the crowd a feel-good ending. The obvious follow-up? A complete non-sequitur that:

        -- had nothing to do with the preceding match, the upcoming title vs. title match, any other match on the evening's card, or the heel beatdown of the Hurricane preceding the match

        -- sent the crowd home with a feeling of "What the hell was THAT all about?" instead of "Hey, we just watched a helluva match!"

        -- brought Kane's building face momentum to a screeching halt (at least he could've done the "Huh?" head-turn like he used to do when something confused him...)

        -- [must not make a "building face momentum" joke. Must not...]

        -- had all the subtlety of a two-ton manure heap in the middle of a ballroom.

        Hey, wait -- I get it... Kane killed Katie Vick by SPILLING COFFEE on her and pushing Fozzy's amps onto her! CONTINUITY COMES TOGETHER!

        Feh.



      I am a little bit curious as to how they are going to tie this in to the PPV hype, especially since the normal course of action after someone's been implicated in a murder involves judges, jail, and stuff and usually NOT a WWE Raw Heavyweight title match.



    Those things usually happen when someone is deliberately run over by a car, but this is the WWE, dammit!





Just please don't have Bossman return and take Kane to jail next week.
NotAWrestler
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#57 Posted on 8.10.02 1450.18
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1454.56

    Originally posted by vsp
    My take:

    * Next week, Booker will call Jericho a sucka again, spill coffee on him, throw tampons at him, kick over some of Fozzy's amps and call him a murderer. Whoops -- getting ahead of myself there...

    *snip*

    Hey, wait -- I get it... Kane killed Katie Vick by SPILLING COFFEE on her and pushing Fozzy's amps onto her! CONTINUITY COMES TOGETHER!



Gyahahaha. I haven't laughed like that in awhile. Funny stuff, vsp.

I'm sorry, I don't see how everyone is so fixated on HHH's ending spiel. When I went back up to my room, all I could think of was that TLC match and seven guys bumping the shit out of themselves. HHH was barely an afterthought, though after I finished marking out I did give it some more thought. I decided to wait and see, but hey, if someone wants to say it sucks before we have any idea where this is going, free country and all that.
Fantomas
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#58 Posted on 8.10.02 1517.11
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1518.56
Oh my god, me and net hack finally disagree on something. I thought this raw roullette absolutely kicked ass. To wit:

"PSYCHOLOGY": First off, let me note that Scott Keith and, I suppose, other workrate lovers were put off by this show. I think in order to enjoy Raw as it is now you have to be willing to enjoy the show as entertainment, not just stiff chops and good psychology (whatever the hell that is). HHH vs D-Lo sucked as far as workrate goes. I mean, there was hardly any moves or build. But I guess there was lots of psychology (HHH talking trash in the corner, etc), apparently it's not "good" psychology though. I hate HHH and he made me laugh many times. I like to see guys who will allow themselves to look like idiots, and I certainly never expected HHH to do such a thing. HHH's capering made me laugh, and I ENJOYED the match.

I also ENJOYED Rock/Hogan. I would give Rock/Hogan 5 stars because it was an EVENT. Like Hogan/Andre. Like Hogan/Warrior. All three matches sucked ass as far as workrate goes, but they were ENTERTAINING as hell. People remember Wrestlemania 3 for Hogan/Andre, not Savage/Steamboat, even though that IC match is about as technically good as a match gets. So, anyway. If you like workrate, don't even watch raw, because you're not going to get what you want. I used to say if all you want is workrate, don't bother with the WWF, get yourself some puro and stop being so miserable. But now I can say: "Watch Smackdown."

NO RICO?!?! NO DREAMER OR HURRICANE IN TLC??: Where was my boy Rico? And Dreamer coming up with TLC spots is like watching Michaelango back from the dead to paint a new mural. Dammit WWE!

WOMEN'S: I thought that was a hell of a match the ladies put on. Yeah it had the cheesecake but it managed to be both T&A and pretty good wrestling. No blown spots, had a nice flow, and got the crowd going for something other than "puppies" chants. I'd imagine this reflects good on Trish, seeing as how she was probably responsible for carrying Stacy (who looks more like a malnourished 6 foot 14 year old every time i see her. Get that broad some tacos!). The post match shenanigans were competant but uninspired.

ENOUGH WITH THE GAYNESS: OK I like to consider myself an open minded kinda guy and i like to think i am ok with being surrounded by gayness... But what is the deal with raw lately?? It's like a gay man's fantasy camp. Bare asses all over the place, and now regal in drag... It was a little too much for me. I felt dirty when it was all over.

TLC: Awesome match! TLCs IMO are better than even hell in a cells because EVERY single one is absolutely awesome! While some cell matches have disappointed... (HHH/Y2J... Rikishi bail of hay off the cell.... * PUKE *)

KANE THE CONTENDER: So now that Kane has single handedly won a TLC, does anyone think he has a chance of beating HHH? No? Me either. And neither do the fans judging from the advance ticket sales of No Mercy, which are supposedly doing very poorly. HHH/Kane not drawing, Brock/Taker in a cell not drawing... Who gets the blame?? Brock? Who SHOULD get the blame?

MURDER: I'm sorry, get mad if you want, the idea is STUPID. I put it up there in momentum-killing ideas as Stephanie being the owner of ECW. Maybe they can salvage it.. I don't know how thius could pay off in an enjoyable manner. I love that guy's idea of Kane being unmasked for one show. Too bad WWE is looking for soap opera writers rather than people with a good idea now and then.



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#59 Posted on 8.10.02 1522.01
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1522.49
Just for the record, I loved Jericho's "I am NOT A SUCKER!" speech. It just goes so well with his ego-driven character. The fact that he took this little thing and lets it upset his whole world, and he even says it wrong. God, I love Jericho.

-Jag

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#60 Posted on 8.10.02 1652.39
Reposted on: 8.10.09 1659.05
I really liked the pairings for the big main event. You've got the daredevils, with RVD and Jericho, the sneaky Canadian heels, the scrappy Dudleys, and the champs. And they set it up well, when Bischoff told Christian, Bubba and Jeff to go find partners for the match. I love backstage stuff like that. Kudos.
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