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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - J.R.'s Comments on IC title elimination Register and log in to post!
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Faust
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#1 Posted on 4.10.02 2305.50
Reposted on: 4.10.09 2305.55
Well, if there was any doubt - JR recently confirmed in his latest report that the IC title is indeed being absorbed into the World Heavyweight Championship.

- pause for a moment of silence -

OK, he also commented on why. He said that having fewer titles will make the remaining ones mean more.

Someone please tell me how subtracting one IC title and adding one Tag title somehow equals fewer titles. Last time I checked, -1 + 1 = 0. As in 'zero difference.' Yes, it does mean fewer singles titles - but why have two tag titles when there are only like three or four regular tag teams and only two non-cruiserweight titles when there are a bajillion mid-carders floundering around doing nothing?!?!

I don't get it. Any comments?



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BigDaddyLoco
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#2 Posted on 4.10.02 2339.18
Reposted on: 4.10.09 2345.35
Having less titles doesn't mean that they're going to be more important. There seems to be two major problems with the titles these days.

1. They change hands to often.

2. The titles don't mean anything to those chasing them, at least not as much as they should. Wrestlers need to start chasing those titles with more hunger. Whether it's to gain recognition or simply because it gives them a *bigger* pay check.

This is something that the NWATNA does very well. Everyone on the roster wants a title shot. That's why they're there. They want to prove that they are the best. The announce team puts the belts over and the wrestler's drive to get it. Title shots seem to mean a little more.

A lot of people think that Jericho's title reign was a failure, but I disagree. When Chris Jericho held the World Titles they seemed important. The way he strutted around and flaunted them made them like something worth fighting for.

Cutting down on titles may help, but it's meaningless if nobody is chasing them. Right now everybody should be gunning for Triple H and Brock Lesnar to show that they are the best. Sadly, most wrestlers don't seem to even notice that there are even championships to be fighting for.

(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 5.10.02 0041)
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#3 Posted on 5.10.02 0043.19
Reposted on: 5.10.09 0059.01
Okay, let's look at a title that WAS meaningful...the old WWF/Undisputed Title.

Kurt Angle won the title at No Mercy 2000 from The Rock. He beat the Undertaker at Survivor Series, and Rikishi, Undertaker, Rock, Austin & Triple H at Armageddon, THEN beat Triple H at Royal Rumble before dropping the title FINALLY to The Rock at No Way Out.

The Rock dropped the title to EVIL Stone Cold at WrestleMania.

Steve Austin & HHH beat Undertaker & Kane at Backlash, then Austin beat Undertaker at Judgment Day, Jericho and Benoit at King of the Ring, then jumped to the Alliance at InVasion during the big ten-man Tag Match. Face Angle beat Heel Austin via DQ at SummerSlam, then beat him legit at Unforgiven for the title.

Kurt Angle dropped the title back to Evil Austin on RAW a few weeks later.

Steve Austin beat RVD & Kurt Angle at No Mercy, lost in the Winner-Takes-All Survivor Match at Survivor Series where the Alliance was beaten once and for all, then turned face and lost the title to WCW Champion Chris Jericho at Vengeance, creating the Undisputed Championship.

Chris Jericho (who beat Rock & Austin to become champ) beat The Rock at Royal Rumble, Steve Austin at No Way Out, then lost to HHH at WrestleMania.

THEN the title stopped meaning things. Monthly title switches made the title crappy. BOO!
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#4 Posted on 5.10.02 0134.06
Reposted on: 5.10.09 0134.39
HOPEFULLY, them getting rid of extra titles (titles they deem to be "extra", anyway) is just another step TOWARDS their actual goal (whatever that may be), and not their actual goal.

In other words, I tend to use the ol' "Wait-n-See" approach towards everything.
The Vile1
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#5 Posted on 5.10.02 0219.19
Reposted on: 5.10.09 0229.01
Why don't they just get rid of the CW title while they are at it?
oldschoolhero
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#6 Posted on 5.10.02 0314.01
Reposted on: 5.10.09 0317.20
Because we'd crucify them. ;)
Net Hack Slasher
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#7 Posted on 5.10.02 0315.26
Reposted on: 5.10.09 0318.49
I also just don't get this decision AT ALL. I have no idea how you are going to go without a secondary title. I mean the IC title was such a great stepping stone for mid/upper mid-carders. The problem was when you give the IC title to people who are above it, it was just strange seeing Jericho/Flair for the IC title it was beneath them but it's not a shot to the title 90% of the roster would benefit from having that title... What are we going to have on Raw mid-carders now a bunch of guys in drag challenging Trish's womens title.

And on the other hand I think 2 tag titles is total overkill... But then again I always wanted an inter-gender tag titles and thought that would have been a cool idea (yup I'm an mixed wrestling mark)

But back to topic at hand I really think a secondary title is essential, and it's easy story writing when it's with a title. challenger wants the title that the champion has. Why is the WWE making things more difficult for them... And with Triple H possibly being the person to unify the title permanently (or for the foreseeable future). Makes me wonder. Does this guy have to be in the middle of every crappy decision WWE makes

(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 5.10.02 0418)
Chumpstain
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#8 Posted on 5.10.02 0339.10
Reposted on: 5.10.09 0357.06
I actually just thought of this.. with people floating rumours around that Eric's going to be reforming WCW (the big gold belt, bringing back WCW things like the wheel, etc.), wouldn't the Intercontinental Title be out of place? Sure, they could turn it into the US title, but that just wouldn't be the same, really. Maybe once the title is eliminated and (when and if) Eric goes WCW on us, then Stephanie would bring back the Intercontinental Title on Smackdown just like she brought back the tag titles this week. That would leave Eric free to recreate the US title or TV title (maybe hire Hacksaw Jim Duggan? Does he still have that thing?).

Just a thought.
redsoxnation
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#9 Posted on 5.10.02 0932.30
Reposted on: 5.10.09 0933.32
If the plan was to dump the I-C Title all along (which I doubt, considering there is no long term booking philosophy in the WWE), why didn't they just elevate the I-C Title to the main title of RAW last month, instead of just creating a title one night.
BobHollySTILLRules
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#10 Posted on 5.10.02 0939.55
Reposted on: 5.10.09 0941.35

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    If the plan was to dump the I-C Title all along (which I doubt, considering there is no long term booking philosophy in the WWE), why didn't they just elevate the I-C Title to the main title of RAW last month, instead of just creating a title one night.


Because Intercontinental Champion doesn't sound as hugely important as World Champion.


    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Someone please tell me how subtracting one IC title and adding one Tag title somehow equals fewer titles.


4-1=3

That's all that is happening here. Adding a Tag Title to Smackdown means nothing for Raw. Think about it, now both shows have the same thing.

World Titles
Tag Titles
Specialized Titles: Cruiser (SD) & Women's (Raw)

Makes perfect sense to me.
Spaceman Spiff
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#11 Posted on 5.10.02 1254.40
Reposted on: 5.10.09 1257.22
I'm not too fond of the decision. Basically it means, if you're mid-card and not in a tag team, you're screwed.

Vince has already stated he doesn't care for anything outside the ME scene, so what I'd rather see is turning over the mid-card (and IC Title) to somebody like Flair or Arn or Fit/Ace or somebody and let them run with it. With guys like Goldust, Jericho (as long as HHH is around), Raven, returning Kanyon & Rhyno, O'Haire, Shelton, D'Lo, and Helms (if/when he drops the Hurricane gimmick), you've got plenty of guys to build the division on. If somebody gets "too good" for the division, "graduate" him to the ME.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 5.10.02 1624)
BigDaddyLoco
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#12 Posted on 5.10.02 1732.55
Reposted on: 5.10.09 1735.26

    World Titles
    Tag Titles
    Specialized Titles: Cruiser (SD) & Women's (Raw)



As far as I know the Women's Title still floats between shows. Raw should have kept the Hardcore Title as that division was just getting it's shit together.
redsoxnation
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#13 Posted on 5.10.02 2014.18
Reposted on: 5.10.09 2015.26

    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco

      World Titles
      Tag Titles
      Specialized Titles: Cruiser (SD) & Women's (Raw)



    As far as I know the Women's Title still floats between shows. Raw should have kept the Hardcore Title as that division was just getting it's shit together.





Women's title no longer floats since Trish won it. Steph/Steph mentioned it when she was babbling on the phone last week. Also, Good Ol' J.R. proudly spoke of how Women's Title Matches can only be seen on RAW in the same manner the cruiser title being only on SD is mentioned.
ges7184
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#14 Posted on 6.10.02 0115.38
Reposted on: 6.10.09 0117.01
Women's title is now RAW exclusive.

This works for me, just look at this way, it will force the writers into writing meaningful storylines for mid-carders instead of lazily just throwing them into I/C fueds. And maybe they could actually start shooting for the World title instead.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#15 Posted on 6.10.02 0126.45
Reposted on: 6.10.09 0126.55
Vince actuallly SAID he doesnt care about anything outside of the ME picture? Wow.
StaggerLee
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#16 Posted on 6.10.02 0127.09
Reposted on: 6.10.09 0129.01
YOu got it all wrong. If they couldnt come up with a decent story line that revolved around a title, what hope is there for a non title related story line?

But then again, 4 months ago, we all thought we had seen the last of the big gold belt as well. Maybe it will return in the near future.

Or, if we are lucky, Taz will bring back the FTW belt!
Faust
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#17 Posted on 6.10.02 0249.01
Reposted on: 6.10.09 0252.22

    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    Vince actuallly SAID he doesnt care about anything outside of the ME picture? Wow.


Yes and no. He DID say this in a recent interview, but I think he meant he doesn't care to be consulted about anything outside of the ME picture. He did care about the Mid-carders, just not enough to bother to be consulted about them.

It's still a pretty disturbing thing to hear, though.
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#18 Posted on 6.10.02 1249.07
Reposted on: 6.10.09 1252.19

    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Or, if we are lucky, Taz will bring back the FTW belt!
Heh! When they used to refer to it as "the F the World Heavyweight Title," that was, like, everything that was good and bad about ECW all bundled up into one convenient package.
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#19 Posted on 6.10.02 1415.49
Reposted on: 6.10.09 1415.55
Aritey everybody brings up good points here, and I'm glad people are so against this getting rid of the IC belt thing...I have just a few short and simple statements to make to finish it up....

1) It was already clear that the IC belt was being absorbed when Bischoff first announced the match ....he did say "winner take all" but I distinctly heard him say "One show, one champion" in that speech as well. There it was.

2) I'm sorry, I have respect for JR and all, but his comment about the logic of the title rearrangement FUCKING BLOWS. JR, of all people, should know about history and lineage in this federation, and the IC belt was a real necessity for people who will never be at the top. Meaningless midcard feuds, whoo hoo!! The biggest thing that pissed me off about his comment is how he claims "logically, less belts means they will be more important" (paraphrase). He says this as if the reason the IC title was failing was because of the amount of titles. Not to mention the SHITTY ASS BOOKING of this great belt. In response to JR, I have this statement of "logic": Logically, now your midcarders have no reason to be in this federation. Logically, these "fewer" titles will NOT mean more. LOGICALLY, they should. But look what happened to one of your greatest belts ever? You threw it in the crapper. That's logic.
Enojado Viento
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#20 Posted on 6.10.02 1435.55
Reposted on: 6.10.09 1436.55

    Originally posted by VK Wallstreet

      Originally posted by StaggerLee
      Or, if we are lucky, Taz will bring back the FTW belt!
    Heh! When they used to refer to it as "the F the World Heavyweight Title," that was, like, everything that was good and bad about ECW all bundled up into one convenient package.


Ah yes, I remember that angle. *L* One of the least effective elements in the Taz/Franchise title chase right up there with the New Triple Threat.

I just liked that ECW had to create a whole new belt after deriding the whole "Million dollar belt" crap because there was no way to put "Yes we know Taz should be champ, but Shane Douglas is too hurt and we can't break RVD's streak with the TV title yet" on one belt.

Even writing small, there's only so much you can fit on those little gold plates, you understand.
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