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edturtle
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#1 Posted on 30.9.02 1352.41
Reposted on: 30.9.09 1355.59
Nice recap, as always. Appreciate your work on these. Just thought I'd maybe start some discourse...

Anyhoo --

- The Mascara 2K/Pierroth match was MUCH better than expected. Of course, I was expecting the drizzle shits from those two so...there ya go. I just really wish that they'd hurry up and get this fued over and done with. But with my luck Perro Aguayo will return to team with Rayo to...GAH! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Must...not...think...bad...thoughts.

- As much as I like everyone involved, I still couldn't get into the Shocker-Vamp/Guerreros dI match mostly since it just seemed...I dunno...I guess the booking for it just really put me off from teh get-go. I still think it should've been Shocker/M. Magica in there and Vamp should've been shuttled off to a fued with Dr. Wagner or something. Dunno. The addition of Vamp out of nowhere all of sudden really killed my interest. That said, it was the typical fine match you'd expect from the four of them.

- From reading the Highspots board and all, I still don't have a feel for the direction that CMLL is gonna take - other than the return of La Familia and the possible turning of Vamp rudo. CMLL's at a same type of dead period now as it was this summer when they ended the Mexico-Japan fued possibly too early. I dunno what to suggest but CMLL REALLY needs some sort of kick-start. Any ideas?

- For some reason the first AAA match with El Dandy v. E.H.d. Perro Aguayo was fun in an old school cheat-like-a-mutha sorta way. I didn't say it was good or anything but it WAS fun. YMMV.

- And the Boricua's and Porky need their own TV show where none of them has to wrestle yet still provide me with my fun-filled skits.
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thecubsfan
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#2 Posted on 1.10.02 1645.20
Reposted on: 1.10.09 1647.22
The floor lept up and attacked my foot and I figured I was gonna be doing too much typing as it was, so I didn't get to this yesterday

>- The Mascara 2K/Pierroth match was MUCH better than
>expected. Of course, I was expecting the drizzle shits
>from those two so...there ya go.

I think it was key that they kept it short and violent, so the home viewer wouldn't lose it, but the DQ after all the other stuff had been done exposed the pointless of it all.

With that hair/hair match done already, I expect that this chapter of this fued is done, but the Boricuas vs the anti-Boricuas is not.

>I still think it should've been Shocker/M. Magica in there
>and Vamp should've been shuttled off to a fued with Dr.
>Wagner or something. Dunno. The addition of Vamp out of
>nowhere all of sudden really killed my interest.

Booking wise, I can see that - Magica's still in that gray area where you're not sure if you can take him seriously as a contender, or if he's headed to fill out rudo sides the terceras in the near future.

From a drawing prospective, I can see Vampiro > Magica easily, but I wish they would have found something to do with him in the meantime.

>That said, it was the typical fine match you'd expect from
>the four of them.

I need to update my numbers, but I'm pretty sure, when it's all said and done, GdI is going to have three title defenses in the top six of CMLL TV matches this RSPW year. That's a succesful team.

>- From reading the Highspots board and all, I still don't
>have a feel for the direction that CMLL is gonna take -
>other than the return of La Familia and the possible
>turning of Vamp rudo. CMLL's at a same type of dead period
>now as it was this summer when they ended the Mexico-Japan
>fued possibly too early. I dunno what to suggest but CMLL
>REALLY needs some sort of kick-start. Any ideas?

I'd put more focus on the Third Guapo angle - done right, not only does one second-third match guy (which I presume they're selecting from) get elevated, but we get to see more of some other on the others. Right now, that story seems just to be floating around with no focus.

More with Virus' tecnico team - if Juvi isn't gonna be around, there are plenty of other logical partners for Fuerza, and there's stories you can tell with Virus teaming up with old rivals. They kinda dropped the ball on this one so far.

And there's always the fun match possiblities of doing things like sending GdI after the CMLL Trios Titles (the most under utilized belt, I think) and that sort of thing.

It looks like they're just gonna modify the sides for the Japan/Mexico fued, though.

>- And the Boricua's and Porky need their own TV show where
>none of them has to wrestle yet still provide me with my
>fun-filled skits.

Probably much more likely to have them FUED though.
edturtle
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#3 Posted on 2.10.02 1223.33
Reposted on: 2.10.09 1225.45

    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    >RE: Vamp-Magica - Booking wise, I can see that - Magica's still in that gray area where you're not sure if you can take him seriously as a contender, or if he's headed to fill out rudo sides the terceras in the near future.

    From a drawing prospective, I can see Vampiro > Magica easily, but I wish they would have found something to do with him in the meantime.



Oh yeah. I've seen those results with Magica as a rudo. *shrug* I just assume it's the usual "If ya don't see it on TV, it didn't happen" deal. Seems to me that it would be a snap just to throw Vamp in with Shoker and Magica and have them battle Guerreros dI - and/or the return of Fusion Laguneros. OK, yeah. I'm daring to dream.


    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    I need to update my numbers, but I'm pretty sure, when it's all said and done, GdI is going to have three title defenses in the top six of CMLL TV matches this RSPW year. That's a succesful team.



They're pro'lly the best tag team in the world right now. Seeing them on a show is now getting to the point like where ya see Santo on the show - YOU KNOW you're gonna get your money's worth AND MORE. I honestly don't know when I've been so stoked over a tag team.


    Originally posted by thecubsfan

    >I'd put more focus on the Third Guapo angle - done right, not only does one second-third match guy (which I presume they're selecting from) get elevated, but we get to see more of some other on the others. Right now, that story seems just to be floating around with no focus.



No focus at all. And that's just odd considering that Shocker is arguably the premier technico with Santo away. Teaming Magica with Shocker and adding a third gives them exactly what they need - a technico force. Unless they're gonna turn GdI or have another rudo-rudo fued as the main draw.

I could see where turning GdI technico would make a lot of sense.


    Originally posted by thecubsfan

    >

    More with Virus' tecnico team - if Juvi isn't gonna be around, there are plenty of other logical partners for Fuerza, and there's stories you can tell with Virus teaming up with old rivals. They kinda dropped the ball on this one so far.



Yep. It would be a snap to combine Fusion Laguneros again, slap Virus together with Nego and another premier technico - *cough*Santo*cough* - and there ya go, straight up fued with Virus and Fuerza. If ya can't get Santo in, then Virus, Negro and Safari or Olimpico would make a nice combo against Fuerza and co.


    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    And there's always the fun match possiblities of doing things like sending GdI after the CMLL Trios Titles (the most under utilized belt, I think) and that sort of thing.



I thought that was SUPPOSED to be the avenue for the La Familia-Nuevo Infernales fued. Aren't the Infernales still Trios champs?


    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    It looks like they're just gonna modify the sides for the Japan/Mexico fued, though.



*shrug* That won't be so bad. That and if they DO turn Vamp rudo and bring in Smiley. But more than likely we'll get more Silva and Porky and Boricua matches.

At least it's better than AAA.
thecubsfan
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#4 Posted on 2.10.02 1317.32
Reposted on: 2.10.09 1319.04
>Seems to me that it would
>be a snap just to throw Vamp in with Shoker and Magica and
>have them battle Guerreros dI - and/or the return of
>Fusion Laguneros. OK, yeah. I'm daring to dream.

But then it would have denied us of Negro Casas main events and golly that'd be wrong.

I think you might be able to make a case that Casas fitted better in the hair/hair fued with Tarzan, becuase it'd be a make or break point with Magica's iffy credibility so he'd need to win to mean anything in the future, but Tarzan shouldn't be giving up his hair to someone on the way up at this point. Vampiro's the hot outsider face and you don't to suffer a cred losing loss quite yet, so you couldn't just shift him over. Casas could do the job (and many others!) without suffering much so he fits that fued better...

...but, OTOH, if you're not stuck on hair/hair, well, doesn't Tarzan Boy still have that NWA LH Belt we saw last December against Shocker? And there's certiantly Tarzan/Magica story to work with there.

I say we blame Negro.

>>I'd put more focus on the Third Guapo angle - done right,
>>not only does one second-third match guy (which I presume
>>they're selecting from) get elevated, but we get to see
>>more of some other on the others. Right now, that story
>>seems just to be floating around with no focus.

>No focus at all. And that's just odd considering that
>Shocker is arguably the premier technico with Santo away.
>Teaming Magica with Shocker and adding a third gives them
>exactly what they need - a technico force.

That's so true - they're running so low on upper->main tecnicos right now; they haven't built them. This would be an oppurtinty to do so but they're not so intersted.

The only times they've really tried recently are the Virus stuff, and the horribly flopped (and quickly forgetten) Felino push.

>Unless they're
>gonna turn GdI or have another rudo-rudo fued as the main
>draw.

If you think about it, Shocker and Magica have been at times a rudo team, but just like the Capos (and to a lesser extent the Infernals), they're tecnicos because of the numbers. And between the Boricuas and Team Japan and Famila de Taijuana and the Guerreras and all the other rudos, CMLL is kinda overrun by bad guys right now.

>I could see where turning GdI technico would make a lot of
>sense.

I would be intersted to see GdI turn (and gotta figure it'd work, with all the other similiar situations like it - and they were pretty much tecnicos against FdT) and would pick Team Japan as a logical opposition, but then who do you pit Shocker et al. against?

>>More with Virus' tecnico team - if Juvi isn't gonna be
>>around, there are plenty of other logical partners for
>>Fuerza, and there's stories you can tell with Virus
>>teaming up with old rivals. They kinda dropped the ball on
>>this one so far.

>Yep. It would be a snap to combine Fusion Laguneros again,
>slap Virus together with Nego and another premier
>technico - *cough*Santo*cough* - and there ya go, straight
>up fued with Virus and Fuerza. If ya can't get Santo in,
>then Virus, Negro and Safari or Olimpico would make a nice
>combo against Fuerza and co.

They seemed to be working with a Virus/Hombre sin Nombre team for a while, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of that matchup if this is resigned to be more of an undercard thing, and CMLL.com made a comment about how good a Marvin/Virus team up could be...

>>And there's always the fun match possiblities of doing
>>things like sending GdI after the CMLL Trios Titles (the
>>most under utilized belt, I think) and that sort of thing.

>I thought that was SUPPOSED to be the avenue for the La
>Familia-Nuevo Infernales fued. Aren't the Infernales still
>Trios champs?

There are two sets of trios belts around - the Infernals are the Mexican National Trios Champions (there's a whole group of Mexican National belts that float around between promotions) and Warrior/Atlantis/Niebla (I think) are the CMLL Trios Champion...and haven't done anything with them since they beat Panther/Wagner/Fuerza. It'd be nice if they did.


(edited by thecubsfan on 2.10.02 1318)
edturtle
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#5 Posted on 3.10.02 0950.59
Reposted on: 3.10.09 0952.52

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I think you might be able to make a case that Casas fitted better in the hair/hair fued with Tarzan, becuase it'd be a make or break point with Magica's iffy credibility so he'd need to win to mean anything in the future, but Tarzan shouldn't be giving up his hair to someone on the way up at this point. Vampiro's the hot outsider face and you don't to suffer a cred losing loss quite yet, so you couldn't just shift him over. Casas could do the job (and many others!) without suffering much so he fits that fued better...

    ...but, OTOH, if you're not stuck on hair/hair, well, doesn't Tarzan Boy still have that NWA LH Belt we saw last December against Shocker? And there's certiantly Tarzan/Magica story to work with there.

    I say we blame Negro.



Ahhh, Negro's not that bad!

OK, he is. But at least he put Tarzan Boy over. That DID legitimize Tarzan Boy and that ain't bad. But yeah, the Tarzan Boy-Negro deal kinda came out of nowhere and had little build to getcha all hot for the match. It was just...weird, more than anything. But I assumed they thought they needed a hair v. hair match for the Anniversary show and Negro must've been the only one with any aura who'd be willing to get shaved. And any way, it wouldn't have made any sense for anyone else to go that route unless it was the result of the Pierroth-Mascara 2K match - and I think they wisely realized that that wasn't big enough of a deal.

Honestly, I would've been OK with the Negro-Tarzan match as was if they had more build for it. But I still think the tag match should've been Shocker/Magica getting the shot and going over, thereby legitimizing the team and Magica. And a Vamp-Wagner match would've gone over well with a little build considering their recent history. Add to that the Boricuas-Capos/Markus fued - I say it should've just been an atomico - and there's your upper card for the Anniversary show.

As far as the title Tarzan Boy had...I...I guess that title means nothing again or something.


    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    That's so true - they're running so low on upper->main tecnicos right now; they haven't built them. This would be an oppurtinty to do so but they're not so intersted.

    The only times they've really tried recently are the Virus stuff, and the horribly flopped (and quickly forgetten) Felino push.



What's sad is that I had completely forgot about the Felino push already. At least when they pushed Black Warrior in the same situation last year, it lasted until ~ this spring. Poor Felino was back in the lower card within a week or two.

A lack of hot technicos is nothing new though. Wasn't that the main reason they decided on going with the rudo-rudo fued of Infernales v. GdI last year?

That said, CMLL *IS* the land of bland faces with the exception of Shocker and (sometimes) Santo.



    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    >Unless they're
    >gonna turn GdI or have another rudo-rudo fued as the main
    >draw.

    If you think about it, Shocker and Magica have been at times a rudo team, but just like the Capos (and to a lesser extent the Infernals), they're tecnicos because of the numbers. And between the Boricuas and Team Japan and Famila de Taijuana and the Guerreras and all the other rudos, CMLL is kinda overrun by bad guys right now.



Not that there's anything wrong with that...if you're a rudo fan like me.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    I would be intersted to see GdI turn (and gotta figure it'd work, with all the other similiar situations like it - and they were pretty much tecnicos against FdT) and would pick Team Japan as a logical opposition, but then who do you pit Shocker et al. against?




Well, yeah. That's the corner CMLL's painted themselves into - and CONTINUE to paint themselve into over the past couple of years. They turned Shocker technico last year basically for the same reason. Of course, he had the obvious charisma to become a technico. Turning the GdI would revolve around playing them off as ass-kickers, pure and simple - kinda like the a group of Mexican Stone Cold's I guess. Put them in a program with La Familia or even Los Infernales again and it could work.



    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    .

    They seemed to be working with a Virus/Hombre sin Nombre team for a while, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of that matchup if this is resigned to be more of an undercard thing, and CMLL.com made a comment about how good a Marvin/Virus team up could be...



CRAP! How could I forget HSN? I thought any renewed push with him was kinda put off until they actually settle on a new gimmick. Or is that just another way of saying that Uncle Rayo is being a mega dick again? Either way, I guess...

Anyhoo...I'd HEART seeing a Virus/HSN team. And if Juvi ain't gonna sitck around long enough to build a program around, I nominate one of my fave's - ZUMBIDO!!! - to tag with Fuerza. Oh yeah!

I'd still rather see the return of Fusion Laguneros but...that doesn't seem possible with Wagner in with the EVIL Japanese.


    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    There are two sets of trios belts around - the Infernals are the Mexican National Trios Champions (there's a whole group of Mexican National belts that float around between promotions) and Warrior/Atlantis/Niebla (I think) are the CMLL Trios Champion...and haven't done anything with them since they beat Panther/Wagner/Fuerza. It'd be nice if they did.




Right! Forgot about the CMLL titles since...Oh, I dunno...I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM DEFENDED SINCE FUSION LAGUNEROS HELD THEM!!! GAH! Can we blame Atlantis for that, please?

That said, it would be a nice little mid-card fued for the Evil Japanese contingent to go after the CMLL Trios Title. Of course, it would've been nice to see the Negro-Tarzan Boy hair v. hair match too, but...what can you do?
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#6 Posted on 3.10.02 1321.51
Reposted on: 3.10.09 1322.31
I'm too lazy to {quote}

>>I say we blame Negro.

>Ahhh, Negro's not that bad!

>OK, he is.

Thought I was losing you for a second there...

>But I assumed they thought they needed a hair v. hair
>match for the Anniversary show and Negro must've been the
>only one with any aura who'd be willing to get shaved. And
>any way, it wouldn't have made any sense for anyone else
>to go that route unless it was the result of the Pierroth-
>Mascara 2K match - and I think they wisely realized that
>that wasn't big enough of a deal.

That does make sense - I wish they had paced this Markus/Pierroth issue so we'd be at that hair/hair match for the show...

I don't know if I would've put Shocker/Magica over YET...but that may be becuase I just don't want to see Ultimo and Rey lose those titles.

>As far as the title Tarzan Boy had...I...I guess that
>title means nothing again or something.

Well it's a title in CMLL that's not held by Ultimo and Rey so you might be right.



>What's sad is that I had completely forgot about the
>Felino push already. At least when they pushed Black
>Warrior in the same situation last year, it lasted until ~
>this spring. Poor Felino was back in the lower card within
>a week or two.

With Warrior, he at least had the advantage of an issue running into and out of the tournament (vs Tiger) that they could use. Unless Warrior/Felino was supposed to be a long term issue that quickly got discarded because of that match, there was nothing they gave him to work with; it wasn't doomed (they still could've put something together - perhaps with the pointless gold belt he has) but they didn't position him well to start with.

>A lack of hot technicos is nothing new though. Wasn't that
>the main reason they decided on going with the rudo-rudo
>fued of Infernales v. GdI last year?

Well that and they're all awesome.

>That said, CMLL *IS* the land of bland faces with the
>exception of Shocker and (sometimes) Santo.

Yep. There's a whole bunch of Olimpico/Safari level guys who do nothing really to distingush themseleves.

>Turning the GdI would revolve around playing them off as
>ass-kickers, pure and simple - kinda like the a group of
>Mexican Stone Cold's I guess. Put them in a program with
>La Familia or even Los Infernales again and it could work.

Yep.

>CRAP! How could I forget HSN? I thought any renewed push
>with him was kinda put off until they actually settle on a
>new gimmick. Or is that just another way of saying that
>Uncle Rayo is being a mega dick again? Either way, I
>guess...

I *think* it's because they're waiting for him to get a name but I hope he does soon; he is 'special' right now, but the longer he hands around doing nothing but undercard matches, the more he ends up like Olimpico and such - going nowhere quick.

>Anyhoo...I'd HEART seeing a Virus/HSN team.

If Galavision is to be believed, the Virus/HSN vs Guerreras match will air this weekend...

>I'd still rather see the return of Fusion Laguneros
>but...that doesn't seem possible with Wagner in with the
>EVIL Japanese.

Well, if they really kick the Japan/Mexico back into high gear, Japan could use a couple more members...


>Right! Forgot about the CMLL titles since...Oh, I
>dunno...I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM DEFENDED SINCE FUSION
>LAGUNEROS HELD THEM!!! GAH! Can we blame Atlantis for
>that, please?

Sure, why not!

>That said, it would be a nice little mid-card fued for the
>Evil Japanese contingent to go after the CMLL Trios Title.
>Of course, it would've been nice to see the Negro-Tarzan
>Boy hair v. hair match too, but...what can you do?

Buy Barnett's tape? Naaah.
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#7 Posted on 3.10.02 1605.31
Reposted on: 3.10.09 1606.37

    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    That does make sense - I wish they had paced this Markus/Pierroth issue so we'd be at that hair/hair match for the show...



Dear God yes. No mas! No mas!


    Originally posted by thecubsfan

    I don't know if I would've put Shocker/Magica over YET...but that may be becuase I just don't want to see Ultimo and Rey lose those titles.



True. But it could've been just a quick switch back and forth. Wouldn't have hurt Rey Buc and Ultimo G any and it would've elevated Magica while cementing Guapos as a force. As long as Rey and Ultimo got 'em back real quick, that is. Leaving the belts on Shocker/Magica for any length of time would've killed the titles though.


    Originally posted by thecubsfan

    With Warrior, he at least had the advantage of an issue running into and out of the tournament (vs Tiger) that they could use. Unless Warrior/Felino was supposed to be a long term issue that quickly got discarded because of that match, there was nothing they gave him to work with; it wasn't doomed (they still could've put something together - perhaps with the pointless gold belt he has) but they didn't position him well to start with.



Yep. It's as if HHH was there helping them "book."



    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    >A lack of hot technicos is nothing new though. Wasn't that
    >the main reason they decided on going with the rudo-rudo
    >fued of Infernales v. GdI last year?


    Well that and they're all awesome.



I thought that was a given.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan


    If Galavision is to be believed, the Virus/HSN vs Guerreras match will air this weekend...



WHOO-HOO!!! I'm there. And it better not be all screwjobbed to hell either!


    Originally posted by thecubsfan

    >RE: Fusion Laguneros
    Well, if they really kick the Japan/Mexico back into high gear, Japan could use a couple more members...



Dare I dream? Naww. I know better.

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