The W
Views: 99040455
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
19.9.07 1256
The 7 - Recap Feedback - Lucha Q&A
This thread has 2 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: 1 2 Next(28 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (33 total)
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator
Level: 130

Posts: 295/5170
EXP: 25392312
For next: 338334

Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#1 Posted on 5.9.02 0117.10
Reposted on: 5.9.09 0117.46
At one point not long ago, I was gonna write a Lucha (though really CMLL TV of Recent Variety) FAQ. I kinda abadoned the project because I figure I should claim to know a bunch about something if I've only been paying attention for a year, and I really didn't know where to start with it.

Now, that first thing hasn't realy changed, but we don't really need a starting point if people just have questions to ask. I still probably won't be able to answer everything, but we could always find and bug people who do know if we get stuck.

What I really need, and what this thread is for, is questions. Things you want to know, things you're not sure of, things you know but you think it's important that others know because it messed you up when you didn't. It'll be the starting point, and if you're okay with it, maybe we can spin this thread off into a more permanent article.

Or maybe this will make no sense to me when I wake up. Who can say. Anyway, if you this makes sense to you, lay into thread with some questions and we'll get it sorted out.
Promote this thread!
emma
Cherries > Peaches
Level: 87

Posts: 34/2086
EXP: 6342513
For next: 50286

Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#2 Posted on 5.9.02 0226.15
Reposted on: 5.9.09 0229.03
What we have here is a classical chicken-and-egg problem. I've watched a couple of times, no habla espaniol, and really don't know what's going on -- although it is kinda interesting, somehow. I don't feel like I've got enough of what's going on to be able to formulate a useful question. I remember that you'd mentioned the possibility of a FAQ -- I was kinda waiting for that to happen to give me something to start from.

Let me try a couple of things. Start with the most basic-basic basics :

There are 2 different shows. Is this the WWF vs the WCW, or ECW vs Fred's Backyard Fed, or what? The one that I always happen to see is the AAA one -- whatever that means. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Is there a really good site that has pictures & names of the guys? There were a couple of guys that I was kind of interested in, couldn't get their names among the spanish, rummaged around the web a bit, & couldn't really find anything useful.

It seems to be pretty free-form tag team, meaning people just run in & out. The Legal Man doesn't appear to be a pertinent concept. Is that always the deal?

Are the teams relatively permanent, ad hoc (as in "HHH & Jericho -- you're teaming tonight because I said so."), or some combination?

Are there singles matches?

Is there an equivalent of a championship belt? (Or one per show -- ahem.)

What's the deal with the ... uh ... little people? Just because?

I've read about rudos vs technicos. Is that exactly analagous to heels/faces? Or is it a more permanent thing? (Once a rudo, always a rudo.) Are there technicos/technicos matches, or rudos/rudos, or is it generally one team of each? Do they do technico-turns & rudo-turns occasionally?

I've also read about the masks being a huge deal. I was watching when one of the clearly big-name guys got unmasked. (Octagon, Pentagon, maybe?) Is he still on his team, do people still like him, etc?

What is the deal with naming characters for geometric figures anyway? (Is it really just one of those things, or is there some deep meaning?)

Is there a McMahon family equivalent? Meaning an omnipotent authority that makes things happen?


That's what springs immediately to mind. I hope you were expecting such elementary subjects. :-)
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni
Level: 66

Posts: 487/1084
EXP: 2430759
For next: 31105

Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2954 days
Last activity: 2950 days
#3 Posted on 5.9.02 1205.04
Reposted on: 5.9.09 1229.02
I don't know a lot about lucha, but I can help on some of these.


"Is there a really good site that has pictures & names of the guys? There were a couple of guys that I was kind of interested in, couldn't get their names among the spanish, rummaged around the web a bit, & couldn't really find anything useful."

Go to highspots.com and look for La Arena. It's the best guide to Lucha out there.

"It seems to be pretty free-form tag team, meaning people just run in & out. The Legal Man doesn't appear to be a pertinent concept. Is that always the deal? "\

I think that, once somebody is tossed out of the ring, he is no longer the legal man, and another guy can just walk right in and become the legal man. They use this rule in a lot of M-Pro and Toryumon matches as well.

"What's the deal with the ... uh ... little people? Just because?"

Cuz they rule. I don't know the exact reasoning, and I was gonna ask cubsfan if he knew when it was determined that you could come out with a miniature version of yourself. And is it always a midget? I saw Ultimo Dragon come out with a tiny Dragon one time, but it looked more like a little kid in the suit.

Rudos and Technicos turn, but I don't think nearly as often as in WWE.

Hope that helped some. I can't stress La Arena enough, though. A very informative site.
pieman
As young as
he feels
Level: 111

Posts: 603/3570
EXP: 14568751
For next: 299655

Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 56 min.
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#4 Posted on 5.9.02 1213.49
Reposted on: 5.9.09 1229.08
Wow. We are correct, sir. La Arena has everything us beginners would need. Profiles and pictures of the wrestlers and lots of terms defined.

Thanks a lot!
The Psycho Pirate
Chorizo
Level: 27

Posts: 109/141
EXP: 112995
For next: 3165

Since: 31.3.02
From: Earth-Three

Since last post: 4292 days
Last activity: 4019 days
#5 Posted on 5.9.02 1555.55
Reposted on: 5.9.09 1555.55

Not to take away from Cubs' project, but there's a really good Lucha FAQ at Highspots, which I know they let odessasteps use when he was publishing the Dr. Alquimia book.

That said, I wish Cubs luck, as the more people that learn to like lucha, the better.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator
Level: 130

Posts: 296/5170
EXP: 25392312
For next: 338334

Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#6 Posted on 6.9.02 0026.40
Reposted on: 6.9.09 0027.20
emma's questions, and then we'll get the good point eviljonhunt and Psycho Pirate made

----

>There are 2 different shows. Is this the WWF vs the WCW,
>or ECW vs Fred's Backyard Fed, or what? The one that I
>always happen to see is the AAA one -- whatever that
>means. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Background info:

CMLL/EMLL (for the purpose of this, the names are the same) is the oldest active wrestling promotion in the world, I believe. It was founded back in 1933 (they're celebrating their 69th anniversy this weekend) and, like the WWF, has been passed down through the same family during the years. It's Tradition, which may or may not be a good thing at the time.

AAA was created by Televisa - the Mexican channel where both of these promotions are orginally broadcasted before it comes to the US - because they wanted more lucha, and control over it. I believe the start year was '93, but I'm not absolutely sure While the AAA name itself is owned by Televisa, the man running the promotion is named Antonio Pena. (There's a rift between the two sides and rumors that Pena might be wanting to jump from Televisa, and being forced to rename the promotion as PAP [promotions de Antonio Pena], and you'll see it refered to as such some times.)

AAA partially rode the wave of what we know think of as the WCW Luchadores - guys like Rey Mysterio and Juventued Guerrera were just starting out then, but already making some of an impact, and they arranged heavy talent raids of CMLL (no one's really under written contract, so it's more a matter of alligences than paper work) and created some buzz. They probably hit their peak with the famous "When Worlds Collide" PPV, co-promoted with WCW in '94 and featuring that Art Barr/Eddie Guerrero vs Octagon/el Hijo Del Santo "Hair/Hair vs Mask/Mask" match.

Partially due to booking/marketing issues (they never followed up with another PPV), and partially due to talent loss (Art's death, Eddie going to ECW, Konnan took the soon-to-be WCW Guys and formed his own promotion [Promo Azteca]), it was all downhill from there.

Today, CMLL is still the Tradition place - most of the lucha "names" wrestler there at least part time - and AAA has evolved in to a garbagy/gimmicky promotion. Maybe a later day Mexican ECW, when things were going down hill and didn't seem to make sense. There is still good stuff there (like Mr. Aguilla!) but the good/bad ratio is much better in CMLL.

I think the WCW/WWF comparision could work good here, with WCW at one time passing up the WWF but falling to stay there, with the current state being somewhere around 2000.

>Is there a really good site that has pictures & names of
>the guys? There were a couple of guys that I was kind of
>interested in, couldn't get their names among the spanish,
>rummaged around the web a bit, & couldn't really find
>anything useful.

http://www.highspots.com/arena/profiles.htm - I wouldn't have made it a week without their profile page. Most have name/basic stats, but some of the older or more important guys have full bios, which can be fun reads.

>It seems to be pretty free-form tag team, meaning people
>just run in & out. The Legal Man doesn't appear to be a
>pertinent concept. Is that always the deal?

The rule is that you simply have to have one man in the ring at the time, and that getting knocked out of the ring (even just rolling by yourself) allows anyone on your side to take your place.

Rules wise, only one person from each team is supposed to be in, but having multiple people in seems only to draw compliants from the referee and not a DQ.

In practice, if you're in the ring, you're legal. If no one on your team (who hasn't been beat) is in the ring, you'll get counted out.

>Are the teams relatively permanent, ad hoc (as in "HHH &
>Jericho -- you're teaming tonight because I said so."), or
>some combination?

There are some steady combinations (typically, you can tell they're a team because they're all nice enough to wear matching outfits), but mostly it's a throwback to the days where all babyfaces get along and all heels work together.

>Are there singles matches?

Not only are there are singles matches, there are (rarely seen on TV) singles titles! But the emphasis is more on two/three man team fights rather than one on one encouters.

>Is there an equivalent of a championship belt? (Or one per
>show -- ahem.)

There is a CMLL Heavyweight Champion (Universo 2000!) but I believe I haven't seen it defended on TV in...six months? Think so.

There's a range of singles weight classification belts - from minis to heavyweights - but very rarely do we see them defended on television and they don't mean a great deal (though they plan ahead and try to put the focus on the belts of the champions when they build to a TV defense.) CMLL also has a set of Trios (three man team) and Tag Team belts that seem as valuable because they are defended on TV often enough and in good matches. Those Tag Team belts more so.

On the other hand, the CMLL TV show is simply a recap of the events happening at two specific arena in Mexico City. CMLL does other shows during the week - same day for the same location every week, like an old US territory. At those other arena, they'll have action that reflects the TV rivalries of course, but they'll also have storylines and important title defenses of their own, and sometimes, honest to goodness title changes without a television camera present.

>What's the deal with the ... uh ... little people? Just
>because?

Some of them midgets [actual weight classification!] are fast and agile and probably would make great normal wrestlers if they were a foot taller. They typically lead off the arena shows because you can get the crowd going, but they don't overwhelm (violence wise - it's tough to take it as serious when it's coming from someome that small) what the bigger guys are doing later.

>I've read about rudos vs technicos. Is that exactly
>analagous to heels/faces? Or is it a more permanent thing?
>(Once a rudo, always a rudo.) Are there
>technicos/technicos matches, or rudos/rudos, or is it
>generally one team of each? Do they do technico-turns &
>rudo-turns occasionally?

Rudos = heels, tecnicos = faces. Basically the same thing. That one side is the good side and the other is the bad is not something kept hidden - the Rudos usually get the first entrance are announces as the Rudo team, and likewise for the Tecnicos. Both sides takes pride in declaring their alignment, whichever it may be.

The majority of matches are basis tecncio vs rudos matches. You'll occasionally get a rudo/rudo match (and there's one long fued between two such sides right now), but in practice, a typicaly "well, we don't normally like these guys but those People From Someplace Else are so evil, I want anyone to take them out!" atmosphere, with the lesser of the two evils acting more good than normal.

There's also a couple high level guys that are rudos when facing an established tecnico team, and tecnicos when fighting an established rudo team, but they're the exception.

Tecnico vs tecnico are more rarities - I guess they don't draw well. On the odd occasion that you see those matches, it's likely the end of a tournament or something of that nature.

There are turns, but they're less frequent then in the US. They also have an annoying habit of taking much longer than it would seem neccesary - two people on the same team could end up fighting each other at the end of a match, and then proceed to team together the following week and repeat the same mess. Maybe it's like a Mafia thing, where they're not done setting you up on their teams till they say so.

>I've also read about the masks being a huge deal. I was
>watching when one of the clearly big-name guys got
>unmasked. (Octagon, Pentagon, maybe?) Is he still on his
>team, do people still like him, etc?

Mask's are partially Superhero Secret Idenity (the same problems that would theoritcally come with Batman losing his match are there for El Hijo Del Santo) and partially Family Crest. While belts aren't always meaningful, someone's mask is the single most important thing to a lucahdor. It's like a little part of them dies with the mask. Allies feel sorry for them and hope to avenge them.

For older guys, losing the mask seems to be sort of a farwell gesture - the idenity is gone now, and while the man may still be around, it was sort of a goodbye to the chracter he was. For younger guys, it's often more of an image change - they're young enough that they can still recover from this and move on.

Losing the mask is usually the luchadore's biggest pay day of his career.

>What is the deal with naming characters for geometric
>figures anyway? (Is it really just one of those things, or
>is there some deep meaning?)

Octagon - I believe it was a take off of a character in a Chuck Norris movie (same idea Great Sasuke borrowed), and Pentagon may have just been someone's idea of pushing the New Octagon.

>Is there a McMahon family equivalent? Meaning an
>omnipotent authority that makes things happen?

CMLL is owned by the Lutteroth family - though most of the booking appears to be run by former/current wrestlers. If you want a Triple H comparision, top wrestler Negro Casas seems to find his way into the main events, saw his (somewhat acknowledged) brother Felino won a prestigous tournament recently and has a hand in the booking.

>That's what springs immediately to mind. I hope you were
>expecting such elementary subjects. :-)

This was really good stuff to start with - hopefull someone will chime in and point out all the ways I was wrong.

----

to answer Jon's question: I was gonna ask cubsfan if he knew when it was determined that you could come out with a miniature version of yourself. And is it always a midget?

It's not as much a rule but as an easy marketing device - if they think someone's hot as a wrestler (or want a way to draw more attention to him), they'll give one of the mini's the same gimmick. Instead of having 1 Booker T, if the people really dig his character, they could have 1.5! And hopefully, the midget won't make him look bad.


jon made a really good point, in that La Arena ( http://www.highspots.com/arena/ ) is a REALLY GOOD SITE for stuff, and is there a really need for something else?

I think they do a wonderful job with the profiles, and they'll know more history than I probably ever will be. Maybe all they're missing is just a very basic introduction if you're new - it's more "do you want to know more than you already do?" - and I should concentrate on that.
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst
Level: 108

Posts: 600/3380
EXP: 13389900
For next: 130643

Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#7 Posted on 6.9.02 0204.08
Reposted on: 6.9.09 0206.44
That was the most educational thing I've read in a LONG time. Thanks cubs. I bet that took some time and I appreciate it.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator
Level: 130

Posts: 867/5207
EXP: 25602095
For next: 128551

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#8 Posted on 6.9.02 0238.10
Reposted on: 6.9.09 0252.33
i second that. great, great start at a FAQ...i'm gonna try to watch some lucha this weekend, and if i can think of anything, i'll ask away...

thanks for the links too!
emma
Cherries > Peaches
Level: 87

Posts: 41/2086
EXP: 6342514
For next: 50285

Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#9 Posted on 6.9.02 0246.48
Reposted on: 6.9.09 0259.01
That was really good, & very helpful. I'll go check out the web site, & then see if I can't find the CMLL show. Thanks!
bigwavedave
Blutwurst
Level: 36

Posts: 256/257
EXP: 280709
For next: 27404

Since: 3.1.02
From: morro bay ca

Since last post: 4289 days
Last activity: 4289 days
#10 Posted on 6.9.02 0647.21
Reposted on: 6.9.09 0647.43
Don't forget "parejas increibles."(unbeleiveable pair) when two luchadores who would otherwise not get along at all team up. kind of like Jericho/HHH last Raw.
pieman
As young as
he feels
Level: 111

Posts: 606/3570
EXP: 14568751
For next: 299655

Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 56 min.
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#11 Posted on 7.9.02 0918.30
Reposted on: 7.9.09 0926.11
Cubs - I want to chime in, too. That was an excellent job of answering those questions. That helps immensely in trying to figure things out. The historical is very much appreciated.

Thanks so much!
HomerJFong
Ten Millionth Hit
Level: 56

Posts: 86/730
EXP: 1332943
For next: 65242

Since: 19.3.02
From: Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 2640 days
Last activity: 1466 days
AIM:  
#12 Posted on 9.9.02 0548.52
Reposted on: 9.9.09 0555.10
"Some of them midgets [actual weight classification!] are fast and agile and probably would make great normal wrestlers if they were a foot taller."

I thought the minis were determined by their height as opposed to weight. At the When Worlds Collide Show, Tenay referenced the Super Astro rule, where anybody shorter than Super Astro was classified as a mini. AAA seems more willing to give their minis TV time, which isn't a bad thing, since Octagoncito is probably the best of all the minis, and is among the more skilled guys in the whole promotion.

And, as a slight correction to your FAQ (see the Wrestling board), if there are multiple people still around, they don't always face off at the end. The Ruleta de la Muerte '99 would be an example of that.

Other things you might want to add:

-The whole AAA La Parka, AAA Psicosis thing, and how they aren't the guys who were in WCW. Something about Pena owning certain gimmicks.
-Tournaments/matches where the losers advance.
-Tecnico/rudo referees in AAA. They aren't exactly as subtle about it as your introduction claims.
-The old "fake foul"
-Sources for lucha (TV, tapes)


Perhaps recommended shows/matches?
count olaf
Goetta
Level: 38

Posts: 112/303
EXP: 351802
For next: 18648

Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 3455 days
Last activity: 3452 days
#13 Posted on 10.9.02 1756.15
Reposted on: 10.9.09 1759.16
Who was in the posse Konnan brought to WCW? All of those guys? Or only some of the gang? I've often wonderes how that went down.

Eddie Famous
Andouille
Level: 90

Posts: 362/2182
EXP: 6961274
For next: 227362

Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 300 days
Last activity: 294 days
#14 Posted on 10.9.02 1959.54
Reposted on: 10.9.09 2000.02
Excellent work Cubs. Another question(s)...

Trios- Why are there Captains, how can one side win a fall, why are there 2 on 1 pins allowed, why are there at times two or more people pinned in a fall....



ETC!
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator
Level: 130

Posts: 301/5170
EXP: 25392312
For next: 338334

Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#15 Posted on 10.9.02 2328.49
Reposted on: 10.9.09 2329.02
HomerJFong corrected me:

>>Some of them midgets [actual weight classification!] are >>fast and agile and probably would make great normal
>>wrestlers if they were a foot taller."

>I thought the minis were determined by their height as
>opposed to weight. At the When Worlds Collide Show, Tenay
>referenced the Super Astro rule, where anybody shorter
>than Super Astro was classified as a mini. AAA seems more
>willing to give their minis TV time, which isn't a bad
>thing, since Octagoncito is probably the best of all the
>minis, and is among the more skilled guys in the whole
>promotion.

Yes, I'm a moron. I almost brought it back together and the end but in the end, just made it more confusing.

The whole "AAA likes showing midgets better because they're the best workers in the promotion" seems to be true too.

>And, as a slight correction to your FAQ (see the Wrestling
>board), if there are multiple people still around, they
>don't always face off at the end. The Ruleta de la
>Muerte '99 would be an example of that.

And there's where my short time watching comes in painful.

>Other things you might want to add: -The whole AAA La
>Parka, AAA Psicosis thing, and how they aren't the guys
>who were in WCW. Something about Pena owning certain
>gimmicks.

Yea, I'm thinking there should be a basic wrestler section to explain the Psicosis/Nicho, evil Parka/good Parka stuff and maybe point out people who are using unfamiliar names (Essa/Aguilla, Ciclope/Halloween, Armando/Tarzan Boy)

>-Tournaments/matches where the losers advance.

Or ciberneticos with that same rule, yes.

Probably include that in a section explaining the different matches and the annual tournaments (Silver Mask, Grand Alternative)

>-Tecnico/rudo referees in AAA. They aren't exactly as
>subtle about it as your introduction claims.

And here's where my lack of AAA knowledge hurts. Maybe I could just tape the show and watch WITHOUT recapping it? (It seems like a weird idea.)

>-The old "fake foul"

Jericho remembered what that was! With all the third fall cheap DQ finishes (mask pulling, faking mask pulling) of late, perhaps I do need a section to explain the typical options.

>-Sources for lucha (TV, tapes)

Definetly.

>Perhaps recommended shows/matches?

This is the tough part, because I'd like the FAQ to be as little time sensitive as possible (so I don't have to update it more than once every 3 months or so), but this is something you'd want updated more often, maybe?

And it requires the historical context I don't have - but maybe others (you?) could recommend?

-----

count olaf asks:

>Who was in the posse Konnan brought to WCW? All of those
>guys? Or only some of the gang? I've often wonderes how
>that went down.

I believe the whole luchador crew - Konnan, Rey, Juvi, Psicosos, La Parka, Damien, Ciclope/Halloween, Hector Garza, Los Dos Villanos, El Dandy, Silver King, Super Calo and Lizmark Jr are the ones I can remember to mention at the moment - were Promo Azetca guys. There's a really cool group photo with most (all?) of the guys wearing Promo Azteca that's floating around the 'net somewhere (and I used to have a copy.)

The deal supposedly was that the lucha guys would be free continue working Promo Azteca on the dates they weren't flown in but Bischoff changed his mind on that.

I'm not really sure where Chavo was before he showed up in WCW, and that was really bugging me over the weekend - this site says Mexican/SW indies before a NJPW showing.

----

Eddie Famous wonders:

>Trios- Why are there Captains

Someone needs to be in charge! (It's kinda a "it's just they way they do it" thing)

There are no captians in two on two tag matches and Ciberneticos.

>how can one side win a fall

You win the fall if
- ANYONE on the other team is DQed
- You pin/submit/countout the opposing captian
- You pin/submit/countout everyone who is not that captian

In the first two falls of most tag matches (and third in a lot too), if that third situation occurs, those pins/submissions/countouts will happen about at the same time. (a domino effect?)

If you're pinned/subit/countout, you're effectively a manager - stay outside, get caught interfering means a DQ.

>why are there 2 on 1 pins allowed,

In lucha, if you're in the ring, you're fair game either way - you can get beat, or you can beat someone.

In theory, it's supposed to be kept one on one and the referees would like it that way, but years of precednt forces them more to play traffic cop and not get in the way.

>why are there at times two or more people pinned in a
>fall....

Lucha matches are closer to Elimination Tag matches than US ones, but not all the way there.

Say we had a trios match - our tecnicos are Scott, Brian, and Rob, and the rudo team is Mike, Justin and Tony. Scott is his team's captian, and Mike is the same for his.

During the first fall, the match turns into a Pier Six brawl (not an uncommon occurance), with Brian and Rob double clotheslining Justin to the floor, and Scott diving on him. Tony quickly follows with a dropkick that takes out Rob, and slides out to fight some more.

We've got Mike and Brian left in the ring, and Mike kicks Brian in the gut and drops him with a tiger bomb - getting a three count.

In the US, at this point, the match would be over. In lucha, the match goes on - Mike's side still needs to beat either Rob (to beat the non-captians) or Scott (the captian) to get the win.

If Rob snuck back in, clotheslined Mike from behind, put him in the camel clutch, and Mike gave up, the rudos/Scott's team wins the match, because they pinned the captian.

The second fall starts with everyone on the same level (Brian's NOT still eliminated for the match.)

Most matches are more straightforward than this. Something like "Brian and Rob beat Justin and Tony in fall one, Justin and Tony beat Brian and Rob in fall two, and Mike cheated to beat Scott in fall three." is typical.

----

I'll try to have something tangible to pick at by the end of the weekend.
emma
Cherries > Peaches
Level: 87

Posts: 57/2086
EXP: 6342514
For next: 50285

Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#16 Posted on 11.9.02 0137.38
Reposted on: 11.9.09 0145.45
Not your problem, but ...
I see most of the Highspots / La Arena site fine, but the FAQ (http://www.highspots.com/arena/faq.htm) & articles (http://www.highspots.com/arena/articles.htm) links give me "Under construction / Sorry, this section is not available yet... " pages. Is it just me? (Or is it Memorex?)
odessasteps
Scrapple
Level: 129

Posts: 952/5065
EXP: 24561757
For next: 487964

Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 94 days
Last activity: 60 days
#17 Posted on 11.9.02 1817.57
Reposted on: 11.9.09 1827.45
A few notes on a good piece of work, Cubs.

AAA was created by Televisa - the Mexican channel where both of these promotions are orginally broadcasted before it comes to the US - because they wanted more lucha, and control over it. I believe the start year was '93, but I'm not absolutely sure While the AAA name itself is owned by Televisa, the man running the promotion is named Antonio Pena. (There's a rift between the two sides and rumors that Pena might be wanting to jump from Televisa, and being forced to rename the promotion as PAP [promotions de Antonio Pena], and you'll see it refered to as such some times.)

Pena was also the booker in CMLL, so when he left and took a good chunk of the talent with him, it was a huge deal and altered the structure of lucha in Mexico. (Also, UWA was also still around at this point.)

technico, rudo and shades of grey

Mexican rudos are cheered vs. foreigners. Right now, we have the Puerto Rican contingent and the Japanese contingent in CMLL. If GDL fought the New Japan team, teh GDL would be cheered.

There are also usually tweeners, who feud with both technicos and rudos. I guess Shocker and Magica are still in this realm, and Black Warrior and Satanico was for a long time.

Octagon - I believe it was a take off of a character in a Chuck Norris movie (same idea Great Sasuke borrowed), and Pentagon may have just been someone's idea of pushing the New Octagon.

If I remember correctly, Pentagon was created as a "doppelganger" for Octagon, like Santo Negro or Sasuke the Great or Darkness Dragon.

(edited by odessasteps on 11.9.02 1919)
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator
Level: 130

Posts: 303/5170
EXP: 25392312
For next: 338334

Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#18 Posted on 11.9.02 2252.36
Reposted on: 11.9.09 2257.48
emma - actually, I e-mailed Jose about that blank FAQ area last night. If he's doing something (or if there's a way I can help him do one), that'd be a lot better than I could do.

Thanks for the info, Mark.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator
Level: 130

Posts: 908/5207
EXP: 25602095
For next: 128551

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#19 Posted on 12.9.02 0256.18
Reposted on: 12.9.09 0259.01
>-Tournaments/matches where the losers advance.

Or ciberneticos with that same rule, yes.

Probably include that in a section explaining the different matches and the annual tournaments (Silver Mask, Grand Alternative)
-------


you mean like a double elim tourny?
HomerJFong
Ten Millionth Hit
Level: 56

Posts: 88/730
EXP: 1332943
For next: 65242

Since: 19.3.02
From: Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 2640 days
Last activity: 1466 days
AIM:  
#20 Posted on 12.9.02 0636.44
Reposted on: 12.9.09 0637.38
Not really. They might be better described as "winners go home" type matches. Once a wrestler/team gets a victory, through whatever method, they leave the ring. The losers continue on. If they are the final wrestler to get pinned, usually they end up losing their hair or their mask. If it is a tag match tourney, the partners will split up, and battle with their mask on the line. These are done in tournament (Ruleta de la Muerte), reverse cibernetico (Carnival de la Muerte, August 00 EMLL PPV) or parejas increible matches (Shocker/Niebla vs. V-3/Atlantis). No matter what the type of the match, the last person to get defeated can look forward to a de-masking or a free haircut.

PS: I'm working on a top-10 must-see lucha matches. In the meantime, and in between time, here's the top 10 lucha matches of the 90's courtesy of the DVDVR.

http://www.deathvalleydriver.com/lucharesults.html

Edit: As for trying to interpret AAA, good luck. I haven't made the effort to get AAA tapes in ages, and even back then, I was completely boggled by the booking. Clusteruck would be a compliment.

And Damien was known as Galaxy (he had kind of a Power Raiders style get-up) early in his WCW run. Atlantis also put in an appearance or two on Worldwide, and if I recall correctly, he was called Lizmark throughout one.

(edited by HomerJFong on 12.9.02 0825)
Pages: 1 2 NextThread ahead: CMLL by the cubs 21.9.2
Next thread: ONE lil thing aboot the SMACKDOWN recap from 9/19/2002
Previous thread: Hey Cubs
(28 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The 7 - Recap Feedback - Lucha Q&ARegister and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.192 seconds.