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The 7 - Baseball - Tino to Cards...
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Guru Zim
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#1 Posted on 18.12.01 1514.47
Reposted on: 18.12.08 1517.20

This is probably the worst thing that could have happened to him. Why? Check his stats for his tenure with the Yankees and pay attention to his base on balls stat...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/profiles/stats/batting/4545.html

Tino is getting less and less selective as time goes by. I would hope to see a veteran player like Tino slowly increasing his OBP and number of walks, and taking down his # of strike outs. This just hasn't been the case over the last few years...

When you think of someone to fill the hole left by Big Mac, you probably weren't thinking of someone who was going to match his Ks... [edit: this was a dumb, exaggerated thing to say. Ok, he still has under 100 strikeouts, which is good for a power hitter. My big beef with him is that he isn't getting the walks he should and his OBP is low]

Granted Tino still produces and I'd take him in a heart beat. I was just hoping he would go to a team that might try to push him to become a better player, rather than just take what he gives them. I think this is a great example of the effect a good manager can have - look at his numbers with Seattle (Lou) vs. New York (The far less talented manager who was gifted with amazing players).

And yes, I AM biased against the Yankees.



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(edited by Guru Zim on 18.12.01 1317)
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#2 Posted on 18.12.01 1823.48
Reposted on: 18.12.08 2043.06
Tino Martinez' numbers were always masked by playing with a good Yankees lineup and his high RBI totals. HIs OBP and even his SLG has not been good for a firstbaseman. I think the Cards are going to be disappointed with this acquisiton.

On the other side of the coin, I was lucky enough to get Tino's autograph when we played for Williamsport and even then he seemed like a really nice guy. I wish him well, but I think he's going to flop.



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
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#3 Posted on 18.12.01 1853.09
Reposted on: 18.12.08 2043.10

Wow, I just got thru taking calls form about ten Cardinal fans on the air, each very happy with this.

I think Tino has a couple productive seasons left in him. Check out the productivity stats for notorious K meister Paquette last year in that stadium. Plus, he'll have a lineup that will get on base for him.

He's not Giambi, mind you. But he might be Jack Clark without all the walks.



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#4 Posted on 18.12.01 1926.02
Reposted on: 18.12.08 2043.12

Oh, it's probably a good fit for the Cards. I wish we had those numbers at first, and, with Nevin moving there, we may. My point was this : Tino needs to be under a manager that isn't going to let him go out and just swing... at this point in his career he should be doing the veteran thing and getting on base.

What was it, 46 walks last season? His OBP of .329 is probably only going to get lower. Remember, LaRussa was the guy who let Big Mac hit just around .200 for a couple of seasons...





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#5 Posted on 18.12.01 1938.22
Reposted on: 18.12.08 2043.15

Originally posted by Guru Zim

Oh, it's probably a good fit for the Cards. I wish we had those numbers at first, and, with Nevin moving there, we may. My point was this : Tino needs to be under a manager that isn't going to let him go out and just swing... at this point in his career he should be doing the veteran thing and getting on base



Yes I agree with that. He will also be spelled by Pujols occasionally, with Polanco at third, against tougher matchups.





***The train of love's deceiving...if she ain't gone she's leaving***



(edited by Guru Zim on 19.12.01 1414)

(edited by Guru Zim on 19.12.01 1415)
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#6 Posted on 19.12.01 0553.22
Reposted on: 19.12.08 1148.34
ANd my point is that yuo get an OBP of .329 from just about any firstbaseman. WHy spend all this money on someone on the downside? I don't think he's a bad player, just imminently replaceable.



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
SC
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#7 Posted on 19.12.01 0858.46
Reposted on: 19.12.08 1148.45
Tino was the best acquisition available.

And really, dude, Joe Torre is an excellent manager. I hate the Yankees, too, but Torre is every bit as good as Piniella. He's a smart man.

And AND and AND Ryan Klesko v. Tino Martinez at first base? Give me Klesko ten times out of ten.



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Guru Zim
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#8 Posted on 19.12.01 1617.37
Reposted on: 19.12.08 1705.01

My only gripe with Klesko is fielding percentage.... well, fielding percentage and knowing when to come off the bag so that he can get a bad throw, or scooping up a bad throw...

The Padres had a ton of E from Short and third last year... a lof of those could have been saved by a better defensive first baseman.



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#9 Posted on 19.12.01 1807.17
Reposted on: 19.12.08 2134.59


Perhaps, but Phil Nevin is no peach at third, either, and the shortstops were all inexperienced or crappy (Arias). Klesko's not great either, though. But if I had to pick Klesko and Tino, I'd take Klesko every time and just live with the defense.



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flaming mo
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#10 Posted on 2.1.02 0300.57
Reposted on: 2.1.09 0300.58
Well, even if his OBP is going down, as a Cardinal fan, I absolutely love the move. Tino still produces, and has postseason experience that will help WHEN (notif, BY GAWD) the Cards make it to the World Series. He can only be an improvement over McGwire (who I still love, even if he was bad last year).

Looking at the lineup, I really have high hopes for next year.

1. 2B-Vina-Gold Glover, should have been an allstar last season, unfortunately Alomar will take both. Excellent leadoff man.
2 LF-Placido Polanco-Underrated fielder, most consistent hitter on the team, perfect man to bat after Vina
3. RF-JD Drew-excellent all around. If he stays healthy his numbers will be phenominal.
4. 3B-Albert Pujols-only thing that could stop him is a sophomore slump. He's still very young, and is a potential MVP candidate for years to come.
5. CF-Jim Edmonds-best CF around defensively. A little too streaky at times, but DA SHIT when he is on his game. Needs to stay healthy.
6. 1B-TINO~!-read above
7. SS-Edgar Renteria-had a BAD first half, but really turned it on when it counted. Can be spectacular defensively, but way too many errors.
8. C-Mike Matheny-any offense is a plus. A Gold Glove caliber catcher, one of the best defensively in the league.

And the pitching staff is the best west of Oakland.
1. Matt Morris-unbelievable comeback from Tommy John surgery, nearly matched the AWESOME performances of Schilling in the Divisional series
2. Darryl kile-another great season, could've used some run support
3. Woody Williams- if he pitches like he did last year after he became a Cardinal he could win the Cy Yound award
4. Bud Smith- the future. No-hitter as a rookie. Pitched great in his postseason start.
5. Rick Ankiel/Garrett Stephenson- if either pitches like I know they can, watch out

Man, I CAN'T WAIT till next year!

(edited by flaming mo on 02.01.02 0104)
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#11 Posted on 2.1.02 0307.28
Reposted on: 2.1.09 0307.43
Mo:

I'm a big Woody Williams fan. I had the guy autograph my softball glove for me... I take that glove to every game and I look at Woody's autograph and remember that day every time I take it out...

He is not Cy Young material. He never will be. Woody is the .500 pitcher that guys like to hang out with. He's a great guy to have around. He's not going to be that good ever again... And I don't want that to be true, I just know in my heart that its true.

He'll break your heart if you start to root for him. The guy just GIVES up long balls. I mean, walks up to the plate, holds the ball for the batter, and says "Here, hit this ball a mile".

You do not EVER want to see Woody start for your team in Enron or CO. It is painful to watch. I'll get numbers if I have to, but I think anyone who has followed Williams will know what I'm talking about...



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flaming mo
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#12 Posted on 2.1.02 0311.57
Reposted on: 2.1.09 0312.01
Well, I very, VERY much hope you are wrong. I still have my doubts, of course, but the turnaround he had was unbelievable. Whether it was a new pitching coach, environment, or whatever, it was unreal. We'll just have to wait and see next season.
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#13 Posted on 2.1.02 1304.10
Reposted on: 2.1.09 1304.14
Mo - you will find that having Polanco, Matheny and the pitcher batting will be three black holes that the Cards will not recover from. Tino does not get on base nearly enough to qualify as even an average first sacker.



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
cfgb
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#14 Posted on 2.1.02 1322.50
Reposted on: 2.1.09 1325.33
I've gotta agree with Guru about Woody Williams. For years, he showed flashes of brilliance when he was with the Jays. (Living in Canada, naturally we get boatloads of their games.) And everytime he appeared to be on track, I'd naturally pick him up on my fantasy squad, to see him have a number of nasty starts, where he'd be sporting an era of 6.00 - 7.00 during the stretch. He's as streaky as you're gonna find, and VERY prone to slumping.




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flaming mo
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#15 Posted on 2.1.02 1355.39
Reposted on: 2.1.09 1400.04
I fail to see how Polanco is a black hole in the lineup. He is perfect for what is expected of him. He's expected to get on base, which he does. He is also a great situational hitter. Matheny, yes, he does hurt the lineup, but that is the sacrifice you have to make for his defense. And EVERYONE has to deal with the pitcher hitting(well, except the A.L., which I hate).

As far as Williams goes, it can't hurt to be optimistic can it?
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#16 Posted on 2.1.02 1359.20
Reposted on: 2.1.09 1402.32
Okay - while not being a black hole, Polanco won't help you much as a thirdbaseman or left fielder. Hitting .300 with a .335 OBP is a pretty empty .300 hitter. Sounds like Chuck Knoblauch to me.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/polanpl01.shtml





He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.

(edited by pieman on 2.1.02 1159)
flaming mo
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#17 Posted on 2.1.02 1417.28
Reposted on: 2.1.09 1419.47
He's better than knoblauch hitting wise, and he CAN throw the ball, which knoblauch can't.

Speaking of knoblauch, are the Royals run by idiots? Ugh. I like the Royals, but at this rate they'll never compete.
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#18 Posted on 2.1.02 1424.53
Reposted on: 2.1.09 1425.58
Now you're hitting close to home. I have been a Royals fan since their inception in 1969 and I gotta answer your question with a whole-hearted YES they are being run by idiots!



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
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#19 Posted on 2.1.02 1438.00
Reposted on: 2.1.09 1438.45
They just follow the same cycle every year. Sign some near-retiring veterans and a few jokes of players that they hope for a miracle with *cough*MichaelTucker*cough*. Then, when things go bad trade the best young players on the team for bad prospects and more useless players *cough*NeifiPerez*cough*.
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#20 Posted on 2.1.02 1458.16
Reposted on: 2.1.09 1458.19
Wow, I'm amazed. I checked out that link on Polanco... http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/polanpl01.shtml copied here for lazy people...

Do they really play him at third that often? Dear Lord, I thought George Arias was bad when he was here...

This guy makes Carney Lansford look like a power guy! I'm beginning to think that La Russa is trying to rebuild all of the wrong parts of the late 80's A's teams...



I love it when a plan comes together
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