The W
Views: 99988405
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
24.10.07 0944
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Interesting quote... Register and log in to post!
(2050 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (10 total)
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst
Level: 103

Posts: 309/3029
EXP: 11259673
For next: 211772

Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 13 days
AIM:  
#1 Posted on 23.8.02 1335.38
Reposted on: 23.8.09 1353.46
This comes from Milton Mayor's book "They Thought They Were Free", detailing private German citizens during the Third Reich and how they could possibly have allowed it to happen.


"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. . . .Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."


Promote this thread!
DMC
Liverwurst
Level: 69

Posts: 546/1180
EXP: 2770432
For next: 99326

Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3476 days
Last activity: 3470 days
#2 Posted on 23.8.02 1351.48
Reposted on: 23.8.09 1359.07
I think many Germans probably did regret some of the internal moves the Nazi party made in asserting their power, but it is actually a debate within German history whether or not they regretted the moves against the Jews, both within and outside of Germany. Someone like Daniel Goldhagen would say that the country had become rabidly anti-semetic (even before the Nazis came to power) that the Holocaust was just a natural outgrowth of their hatred of Jews.

DMC
WyldeWolf1
Boerewors
Level: 41

Posts: 269/361
EXP: 460575
For next: 19574

Since: 20.6.02
From: Florida

Since last post: 4433 days
Last activity: 4432 days
#3 Posted on 23.8.02 2145.26
Reposted on: 23.8.09 2146.53
You also have to remember the kind of shape Germany was in following World War I. The economy was in shambles and stayed there due to war reparations and the general damage to their infrastructure. Their money was used as children's building blocks, unemployment was sky-high, etc. They were vilified by the world for a war that they didn't start (World War I was due to the mess of alliances woven by men like Bismarck and a stupid assassin in Yugoslavia).

So life is sucking for a German citizen. This this guy comes along and says, "The war wasn't our fault. Germany is great. The other countries are ruining us." He says some other things about Jews, but you take it in stride. Then the Nazis start building, restore the military, etc. It may not be a sound democracy, but now you have a job, money that has value, and a restored pride in your nation.

In other words, Germany was ripe for the picking for a maniac like Hitler.

I have a problem with the comparisons of current American policy and USSR/Nazi Germany, mainly because we have a precedent in this country for taking such action in a time of war. Look it up...go as far as the Civil War to find war-time limitations of freedom that are restored at its resolution. I think it would hit home if the war was being fought on American soil, or everyone knew someone overseas (as in WWII).
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni
Level: 66

Posts: 444/1084
EXP: 2439877
For next: 21987

Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2988 days
Last activity: 2985 days
#4 Posted on 24.8.02 0410.28
Reposted on: 24.8.09 0429.01
"the Civil War to find war-time limitations of freedom that are restored at its resolution"

I just wanna say that the federal government has expanded from the Civil War on. While I agree with the majority of your post, the government is very resistant to giving up power that it usurps "in times of crisis."
WyldeWolf1
Boerewors
Level: 41

Posts: 275/361
EXP: 460575
For next: 19574

Since: 20.6.02
From: Florida

Since last post: 4433 days
Last activity: 4432 days
#5 Posted on 24.8.02 0816.37
Reposted on: 24.8.09 0824.53
Government expansion since the Civil War is not due to things like Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus. It is due to the fact that the power of individual states as defined by the Constitution ended at that time. In theory, the states entered into an agreement to form the federal government. Therefore, the states are the ones with the power to dissolve it. However, the victory of the federal government over the seceding states meant that it could expand its power over areas relegated to the state governments in the Constitution. It does this today primarily by controlling the purse...almost all federal money has strings attached.
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst




Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 13 days
AIM:  
#6 Posted on 24.8.09 1750.19
Jesus Christ, 7 years younger version of myself - try to be a little more of a cliche, why don't you? How long until I post the Ben Franklin quote about "freedom and liberty"? (I'm joking - but I probably really did. I'm too afraid to go check.)

Don't get me wrong - I was totally right and everyone else was totally wrong, but I still was an obnoxious dick about it.


EDIT: I felt like that needed a smiley. :)

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 24.8.09 1850)
MoeGates
Andouille
Level: 88

Posts: 591/2108
EXP: 6616514
For next: 34176

Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#7 Posted on 24.8.02 1913.16
Reposted on: 24.8.09 1919.30
Mostly it's the Constitutionally mandated Federal responsibility of "Regulating Interstate Commerce" that is the root of a great deal of the Feds power, as virtually everything can in someway or another (especially in this day and age) affect interstate commerce in some way.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator
Level: 131

Posts: 813/5216
EXP: 25764704
For next: 659986

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 20 hours
#8 Posted on 24.8.02 1934.40
Reposted on: 24.8.09 1939.29

    Originally posted by WyldeWolf1
    You also have to remember the kind of shape Germany was in following World War I. The economy was in shambles and stayed there due to war reparations and the general damage to their infrastructure. Their money was used as children's building blocks, unemployment was sky-high, etc. They were vilified by the world for a war that they didn't start (World War I was due to the mess of alliances woven by men like Bismarck and a stupid assassin in Yugoslavia).

    So life is sucking for a German citizen. This this guy comes along and says, "The war wasn't our fault. Germany is great. The other countries are ruining us." He says some other things about Jews, but you take it in stride. Then the Nazis start building, restore the military, etc. It may not be a sound democracy, but now you have a job, money that has value, and a restored pride in your nation.

    In other words, Germany was ripe for the picking for a maniac like Hitler.

    I have a problem with the comparisons of current American policy and USSR/Nazi Germany, mainly because we have a precedent in this country for taking such action in a time of war. Look it up...go as far as the Civil War to find war-time limitations of freedom that are restored at its resolution. I think it would hit home if the war was being fought on American soil, or everyone knew someone overseas (as in WWII).



wow, i never looked at it that way...hmmmm...i'll have to ask my dad what he thought of WWII [he just got into the war at the end of the asian side and has a medal for being part of the occupational forces in japan]
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator




Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 15 hours
Last activity: 8 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#9 Posted on 26.8.09 1119.18
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Jesus Christ, 7 years younger version of myself - try to be a little more of a cliche, why don't you? How long until I post the Ben Franklin quote about "freedom and liberty"? (I'm joking - but I probably really did. I'm too afraid to go check.)

    Don't get me wrong - I was totally right and everyone else was totally wrong, but I still was an obnoxious dick about it.


    EDIT: I felt like that needed a smiley.

    (edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 24.8.09 1850)
Were you trying to make a Bush/Cheney allegory in there? Either we were too smart to respond back then...or too dumb to pick up on it back then. ;-)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go take off my shoes and run them through an X-ray machine before I can get to my flight. :-P
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst




Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 13 days
AIM:  
#10 Posted on 27.8.09 1921.47
I think so. This is one of those instances where even I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE
Thread ahead: Thinking Rationally About Guns
Next thread: Cartoons!
Previous thread: Evolution and public schools
(2050 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Interesting quote...Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.192 seconds.