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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - British Losing Britain
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DJ FrostyFreeze
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#21 Posted on 20.8.02 1031.14
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1036.29
I still dont see what the hell the big deal is with being able to vote (& etc) in other languages. Is it REALLY hurting anyone/anything to have government documents translated into different languages? Really. I still dont get that argument. If anyone can tell me how someone else being in this country and not being able to speak engligh hurts you (or anyone else, fot that matter), I'll shut up. Oh, and if you come back with something like "It's annoying", I'll probably have to come back with something like "Get over it".

How hard is it for the police to do their jobs when the people they are talking to don't understand a word?

That's gotta be the silliest thing I've read all year. Of all the things the police have to worry about while on the job, I can almost guarantee that THAT one isnt even on the list.

Grimis
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#22 Posted on 20.8.02 1149.49
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1159.05

    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    I still dont see what the hell the big deal is with being able to vote (& etc) in other languages.




OK let's pretend that you are a voter. You are watching a Presidential debate between Warren Buffett and Troy Aikman(obviously this is just for show). Buffett starts the debate by talking about economic theory, the effect of governmental spending on the macroeconomic model, and how as President he will lower taxes to boost the economy. Troy Aikman drools all over himself.

But since you only speak Vietnamese you have no idea what the fuck just happened. And you get to vote. The right to vote should not be extended to those who are unable to speak the language.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#23 Posted on 20.8.02 1230.41
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1230.47
That's just silly. Someone who cares enough to vote at all (as the over-whelming majority of us dont) would care enough to learn at least SOMETHING about who or what they're voting for.

The right to vote should be extended to any U.S. citizen who is/will be affected by who or what is being voted on.
Grimis
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#24 Posted on 20.8.02 1238.59
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1241.58
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    That's just silly. Someone who cares enough to vote at all (as the over-whelming majority of us dont) would care enough to learn at least SOMETHING about who or what they're voting for.




Never understimate the uneducated who vote. In many downballot races the name who is alphabetically first wins.


    The right to vote should be extended to any U.S. citizen who is/will be affected by who or what is being voted on.




So kids should vote? Convicted felons should vote? Where does it end?

(edited by Grimis on 20.8.02 1339)
MoeGates
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#25 Posted on 20.8.02 1241.14
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1244.36
The right to vote should not be extended to those who are unable to speak the language.

Are you fucking serious? Go back to Russia.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#26 Posted on 20.8.02 1331.16
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1331.51
So kids should vote? Convicted felons should vote? Where does it end?

OK, now you're just being rediculous. No one said anything about kids or felons. We already know kids and convicted felons cant vote (I cant believe I had to type that), I thought we were talking about voters who cant speak english (in this side-conversation you and me are having, anyway). Let's try to stick to that, please? If you want to talk about "Any and all people who should/shouldnt be allowed to vote" instead, thats fine. But let's finish this one first, ok?

And in other news, your argument holds no weight at all.
Grimis
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#27 Posted on 20.8.02 1331.56
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1332.44

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    The right to vote should not be extended to those who are unable to speak the language.

    Are you fucking serious? Go back to Russia.



In a perfect world this wouldn't matter because there would be a language requirement before becoming a citizen. Then, it would be impossible to vote without understanding the language. But god forbid we expect something out of our citizens(then again looking at some of the US born citizens we have we aren't exactly getting a whole lotta bang for the buck out of them either).
OlFuzzyBastard
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#28 Posted on 20.8.02 1338.46
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1344.59
Um, I don't speak a word of French, but I was well aware that LaPen was fucking insane, so I really don't see how your logic holds any weight at all. It seems to just be scapegoating one of the biggest non-issues I can think of.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#29 Posted on 20.8.02 1339.47
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1349.26
In a perfect world this wouldn't matter because there would be a language requirement before becoming a citizen.

You have yet to give a VALID reason why this is necessary.

Then, it would be impossible to vote without understanding the language.

Is this even a problem?? I still cant imagine a non-english speaking person going down to their local voting place to cast their vote for someone who they know absolutely NOTHING about.

UNLESS, maybe they've somehow found access to a source of information IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE where they were able to learn about the candidates and the issues they support/disagree with, then took this newly found knowledge with them and based their vote on that....








NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Grimis
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#30 Posted on 20.8.02 1432.09
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1441.51
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    In a perfect world this wouldn't matter because there would be a language requirement before becoming a citizen.

    You have yet to give a VALID reason why this is necessary.




It's amazing how rare common sense is. Why is it necessary for new citizens to speak English? It's called ASSIMILATION. For them to truly become part of the metling pot of America, they need to be able to communicate with America. To go to the bank they need to be able to communicate with their banker. To make a purchase at the store you need to be able to communicate with the store owner. And don't give me this shit about stores in their communtiy speaking the language of their choice because that defeats the entire point I made about ASSIMILATION. Like our ancestors did. Sure a hundred years ago the Irish may have come home to eat Haggis and potatoes, and the Italians came home to eat Pasta but dammit they because part of the culture by interacting and communicating with those in their surroundings. And they spoke ENGLISH to do that.

EDIT: From today's Washington Post Click Here

(edited by Grimis on 20.8.02 1538)

(edited by Grimis on 20.8.02 1539)
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#31 Posted on 20.8.02 1456.25
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1459.03
It's amazing how rare common sense is.

*Sheds tear*

Why is it necessary for new citizens to speak English? It's called ASSIMILATION. For them to truly become part of the metling pot of America, they need to be able to communicate with America.

Says who? Sure, being able to speak the (Un)official language of the country you're in makes things a lot easier. But is it necessary? No.

To go to the bank they need to be able to communicate with their banker. To make a purchase at the store you need to be able to communicate with the store owner. And don't give me this shit about stores in their communtiy speaking the language of their choice because that defeats the entire point I made about ASSIMILATION. Like our ancestors did.

Why would that argument be called "shit"? Because it tears yours to shreds? The fact of the matter is that it happens all the time. My step-grandmother (My stepmom's mom) doesnt speak a lick of english, and she's been here at least 20 years. She has a real job, she just bought a new car, she has a valid driver's license. She seems to be getting along just fine without english. That's one of the great things about living in a free country like we do. You dont even have to speak the language to function or make a living while you're here, as silly as it may sound to you. Oh, and the part about all of this "defeating your point about ASSIMILATION" is just laughable. It almost come off as "And dont make the point about '_______' because it proves me wrong".

Sure a hundred years ago the Irish may have come home to eat Haggis and potatoes, and the Italians came home to eat Pasta but dammit they because part of the culture by interacting and communicating with those in their surroundings. And they spoke ENGLISH to do that.


Thanks for the history lesson. You still havent explained to me why assimilation is *necessary*. If anyone would be hurt at all by non-english speaking immigrants, it would be the immigrants themselves. But they're not. Besides, those who want to learn english and "assimiliate" can do so very easily (and in most cases for free) when they're ready.
Jaguar
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#32 Posted on 20.8.02 1913.50
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1929.04
In response to that article you posted Grimis: Nobody forces people to hire non-english speaking workers. You can put it in the job requirements that the employee must be able to speak english. However, people hire latino workers by the truckload. Why is that? To save money. Immigrants will work harder for cheaper. So if these companies are complaining about their employees not knowing english, then they either need to stop hiring them or shut the fuck up.

Also, I'd just like to point this out as well:

Local officials acknowledge that they cannot keep up with the demand for adult English classes -- but say they are trying. Last year, for example, Fairfax County provided such instruction for nearly 7,000 immigrants. Language experts say there are far more immigrants jamming English classes than American-born students picking up Spanish.

So maybe if there were more ESL classes available, your argument would really be shot to shit?

-Jag

And who says that America's official language has to be English? It's a free fucking country. As I've been told on other subject, "Either love America the way it is, or get the hell back to Afghanistan ya freakin' commie!"
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#33 Posted on 20.8.02 1957.33
Reposted on: 20.8.09 1959.05
So maybe if there were more ESL classes available, your argument would really be shot to shit?

What, I wasnt doing enough of that already?
Grimis
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#34 Posted on 21.8.02 0558.18
Reposted on: 21.8.09 0559.01

    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    So maybe if there were more ESL classes available, your argument would really be shot to shit?

    What, I wasnt doing enough of that already?



My argument is no more shot to shit than your argument that immigrants should just speak their native language like it's their home country.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#35 Posted on 21.8.02 1022.00
Reposted on: 21.8.09 1024.31
WHEW! Good thing I never said that. You're really running on fumes at this point.
Grimis
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#36 Posted on 21.8.02 1131.16
Reposted on: 21.8.09 1134.24

    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    WHEW! Good thing I never said that. You're really running on fumes at this point.


Look, I like to base my arguments and logic and reason. Since that use of that has been discontinued in this thread, I really have nothing more to add.

I cannot for the life of my understand why you want to excuse the behavior of those who refuse to learn English.
Jaguar
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#37 Posted on 21.8.02 1224.15
Reposted on: 21.8.09 1224.17
    Originally posted by Jaguar


    Also, I'd just like to point this out as well:

    Local officials acknowledge that they cannot keep up with the demand for adult English classes -- but say they are trying. Last year, for example, Fairfax County provided such instruction for nearly 7,000 immigrants. Language experts say there are far more immigrants jamming English classes than American-born students picking up Spanish.



Who said they are REFUSING to learn english? Go check out how filled your local ESL classes are. People from the state were always going around the spanish classes at my high-school to find kids who could teach ESL for them. Why? Because there are so many people trying to learn english!

-Jag


/edit = I guess we win, eh Frosty?

(edited by Jaguar on 22.8.02 1037)
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