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The 7 - Movies & TV - The Walking Dead 3x16 - "Welcome To The Tombs"
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The Guinness.
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#1 Posted on 1.4.13 0234.24
Reposted on: 1.4.20 0235.10
Ok, I'll start it.

I won't say it was disappointing, but......... Kinda expected more from the finale though.

This season started off as hot as we all wanted it to. Each episode thereafter kept getting better and better. Then the break happened.

Seems as though each episode from the return from the break got worse and worse. The only exception being the return of Morgan episode. The slow paced approach in the second half will probably leave a bad taste in the mouth for many fans. There really was no closure in this finale. Sure, we had a major character death but it was too predictable and made absolutely no sense in how long it took to get those pliers. Blame it on an inability to multitask.... I guess.

All in all season three finale turned out to be more of a creating a new story arc without closing out the main story. No resolution was provided and the death of a major character was way too welcomed. Season four has to be much more solid from beginning to end.

Overall I liked the episode. It just wasn't finale worthy. Rick not seeing Lori in a vision that he was looking for, Carl's path and The Governor's breakdown were done well enough. I just expected way more than what we got.


(edited by The Guinness. on 1.4.13 0036)
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oudom
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#2 Posted on 1.4.13 0257.20
Reposted on: 1.4.20 0259.01
What Carl did was pretty dark but he sure put Rick in his place. lol It was kind of disappointing since they kept promoting 27 deaths and it was mostly no name jobbers. I already knew one would be Milton since the actor signed up for another show...the Governor wasted no time in taking care of that piece of business.
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#3 Posted on 1.4.13 0550.12
Reposted on: 1.4.20 0552.15
A big thumbs down for me. I expected so much more. The ambush was a great twist but no one died. How do you have the governor and his troops pinned inside a jail and not get one kill?

Milton and Andrea was awful. I mean the guy is dying and you spend more time talking than going for the pliers? Had she stopped the chit chat she would have been alive.

If I was Rick, I would have waited at Woodbury for the governor to come back and killed him then. He is down to two henchmen - they could have easily been picked off and Rick could have moved the whole crew into Woodbury.

A weak season finale. And I agree Guiness - after the high water mark off Morgan, everything else fell flat
lotjx
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#4 Posted on 1.4.13 0606.29
Reposted on: 1.4.20 0607.27
I liked it. I think I called it earlier, the giant twist is they let the Governor live and no one in the prison dies. As someone who read the comics, they have no real villain til issue 100. Even then, he is almost Governor 2.0. Morrisy is awesome in the role, so there is no real reason to get rid of him.

Andrea's dying wish is realized, Woodbury and Team Prison get to live together for awhile. My thinking is they got everyone out of Woodbery, because the Governor is still out there. He is an unknown quantity and probably knows every way to get back into the town that people living there since day one. Her death seem to give Rick, his optimism back and no visions of Lori, so yeah they win. Yeah, Carl. One one hand, I see where Carl was coming from since the guy could have just dropped the weapon which they told him too instead being very coy about handing it over. One the other hand, Carl walking away like a spoiled kid when Rick told him about taking in the Woodbery people leads me to believe Carl is headed down the dark path.

All in all, a great season.
Tenken347
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#5 Posted on 1.4.13 0630.26
Reposted on: 1.4.20 0631.09
I really liked this one, although I agree that the fact that they didn't actually kill anyone with their ambush was a little absurd. I figured from day one that there was no real way for the Governor to take the prison, and this basically proved that. If given the choice between the prison and Woodbury, it's no real choice at all; one is solidly defensible, and the other is a town with makeshift walls around it. I liked that they gave the Governor a solid reason for being batshit crazy, I liked that he lived to fight another day, and I liked that this season wound up being one long character arc for Rick. Thumbs up from me.
John Orquiola
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#6 Posted on 1.4.13 0801.49
Reposted on: 1.4.20 0801.52
The prison. If you lived here, you'd be home by now. #Prisonbury

Carl was the only person in that whole episode who was making any sense at all. Carl should be leader. #Carltatorship

Andrea, you blithering idiot, TALK WHILE YOU WORK. She had all the time in the world to free herself while Milton was still alive, but she took dramatic pauses for her soliloquies. They made her out to be an idiot to the last. Unlike Merle, who got a redemption episode where you felt loss when he died, Andrea didn't quite get the same.

Who needs her? They have dozens of unidentified Woodburyians to have killed off in season 4 now. The prison is safer than Woodbury. Except, hey, stay away from 75% of the prison where all those Walkers are.

The Governor was the deus in deus ex machina.

I dunno. Episode fell flat, made little sense. First half the season was excellent, second half after "Clear" was like air slooooowly escaping a balloon. Still, season 3 was the best overall season.

Wouldn't mind never seeing Phillip again, but we'll see Phillip again.

(edited by John Orquiola on 1.4.13 0602)
kentish
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#7 Posted on 1.4.13 0919.58
Reposted on: 1.4.20 0925.06
While I liked what we got, for some reason it seemed like they were hyping up this huge battle royale for the finale, and there was nothing of the sort.

Andrea, you have been dumb all season, and that is why you are dead. I am still trying to figure out how she used a pair of pliers to get out of handcuffs.
Matt Tracker
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#8 Posted on 1.4.13 1014.14
Reposted on: 1.4.20 1017.47
I liked Andrea's last scene despite not liking her at all this season. She gave her own epitaph. And that line about the safety with Rick was a nice callback to the show's second episode. Also a nice callback to Glen's scene where he was able to survive his locked-room experience.

Move Carl to FX cause that shooting was Justified. The kid was inching closer to Carl and hadn't dropped the gun. Carl was protecting Herschel. And he's dead right in his logic about the Governor. He's a kid, and there's a real-life boogeyman out there killing his people. You can't agree to get along with the shark in Jaws, either.

Woodbury seemed to have more amenities than the prison, but the Governor knows the town better than anyone. Better to go where you know.

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#9 Posted on 1.4.13 1022.09
Reposted on: 1.4.20 1022.22
I also liked it, although it wasn't as intense/exciting as I was expecting from a finale. I suppose that the idea was to keep the Governor alive for down the road episodes, it really didn't make sense why at least Martinez just got in the truck after the Governor turned on his posse. A few episodes ago, they were creating a "Martinez is their version of Daryl" vibe, so I think that if Rick had snapped and mowed down Glenn, Maggie, Hershel, etc, Daryl wouldn't have fearfully just followed him like a little puppy.

Carl seems to be totally hardened, and everything seems black or white with no grey. The kid is growing up in a kill-or-be-killed environment, and while that mentality might be tempered somewhat with Lori (or even maybe Dale) around, that's how he's living. When he shot the kid in the woods, I said aloud, "Why didn't that other kid just DROP HIS GUN?!" (although obviously the Woodbury environment was not as tense and defensive as life in the prison). So I wasn't too put off seeing Carl shoot him. When he saw all of the Woodbury people get off the bus and was visibly angry, I truly thought he was going to start shooting folks - until I noticed that there was only a minute or two left in the episode.
JimBob Skeeter
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#10 Posted on 1.4.13 1041.41
Reposted on: 1.4.20 1043.04
The wife and I still swear that the Gov got bit escaping Andrea's walker trap in that warehouse. When he got back with Andrea and was walking, he was holding his trenchoat really tight like he was hiding something. Then, when they opened with the closeup on his eye, and that blackness coursing thru his retina, he's gonna be a biter soon. Martinez betta watch out!

(edited by JimBob Skeeter on 1.4.13 1042)
Matt Tracker
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#11 Posted on 1.4.13 1103.23
Reposted on: 1.4.20 1106.51
I forgot to add that, immediately after Talking Dead, the Lovely Mrs. Tracker excused herself from the couch and went into the garage. She came back with a pair of pliers and took off her shoes. She put the pliers on the floor and said "you first."

It's not a fair test because I often pick stuff off the floor with my toes. I have hobbit feet. From the ankles down, I'm 50% bat. But we both got it on the first try. We weren't tortured first, clearly, but we did both have a few beers beforehand.

(edited by Matt Tracker on 1.4.13 0903)
Leroy
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#12 Posted on 1.4.13 1202.39
Reposted on: 1.4.20 1207.25
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I forgot to add that, immediately after Talking Dead, the Lovely Mrs. Tracker excused herself from the couch and went into the garage. She came back with a pair of pliers and took off her shoes. She put the pliers on the floor and said "you first."(edited by Matt Tracker on 1.4.13 0903)


This illustrates nicely my complaints about a lot of the complaints about the show (and specifically, all of the Andrea-hate). They really have an air of, "If I were in the undead zombie apocalypse and had spent the better part of a year watching most of the people I love being torn apart and/or turned into flesh eating monsters, I *totally* would be a badass, so Andrea is stupid."

I'm not saying she wasn't, at times, questionable in her decision making, but her motivations were pretty clear from the get go and no one really wanted to give her a break.

I liked how the plan to defend the prison gave Glenn and Maggie their revenge. That was a nice touch.

And Hershel surviving is not something I anticipated - it feels like he's spent all season on his last leg (heyoooo!)

Matt Tracker
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#13 Posted on 1.4.13 1224.55
Reposted on: 1.4.20 1229.01
    Originally posted by Leroy
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      I forgot to add that, immediately after Talking Dead, the Lovely Mrs. Tracker excused herself from the couch and went into the garage. She came back with a pair of pliers and took off her shoes. She put the pliers on the floor and said "you first."(edited by Matt Tracker on 1.4.13 0903)


    This illustrates nicely my complaints about a lot of the complaints about the show (and specifically, all of the Andrea-hate). They really have an air of, "If I were in the undead zombie apocalypse and had spent the better part of a year watching most of the people I love being torn apart and/or turned into flesh eating monsters, I *totally* would be a badass, so Andrea is stupid."

    I'm not saying she wasn't, at times, questionable in her decision making, but her motivations were pretty clear from the get go and no one really wanted to give her a break.



The show repeatedly gave us little reason to root for her. She was one of the original campground crew, and she learned skills from Dale and Rick and Shane, and she seemed strong compared to Lori. But without that comparison, Andrea seemed directionless and sometimes clueless. I don't begrudge her optimism for Woodbury or the prison, but she had no objectivity about the Governor or Camp Rick. She was too invested in both to help either. And the theme of "you can't do it alone" cemented her arc; because she sided ultimately with neither camp, she was doomed. She had to pick a side, couldn't, and suffered for it.

And her penchant for latching onto an alpha (Dale, Shane, Michonne, Governor) meant she had to play the sidekick, leaving her little opportunity to stand on her own and convey an independent character. I remember she wanted to die in the CDC, and I was glad she was talked out of it. But her hesitation cost her. "Kill or die," they said. She couldn't kill Governor, and she died. And so did many others. Morally, she had to pay for that. At least she went out strong and with resolve.

But in the end, I'm afraid she'll be remembered as the conduit between Camp Rick and Michonne.
dWs
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#14 Posted on 1.4.13 1236.44
Reposted on: 1.4.20 1238.25
    Originally posted by JimBob Skeeter
    The wife and I still swear that the Gov got bit escaping Andrea's walker trap in that warehouse. When he got back with Andrea and was walking, he was holding his trenchoat really tight like he was hiding something. Then, when they opened with the closeup on his eye, and that blackness coursing thru his retina, he's gonna be a biter soon. Martinez betta watch out!



Great fanboy speculation! Hadn't thought of that, but it'd be a fun twist.

My own fanboy spec deals with the Andrea/Milton parts that we didn't see. It'd be an interesting twist if we see a flashback of those kills in the future. Especially if Milton shows some form of recognition before he's killed. Nice call-back to his experiments and would completely freak out fans.

Andrea, in some ways, was the most realistic character on the show. She was something of a pollyanna, wanting everybody to get along and maybe get back to some form of normalcy. As she was reaching for the pliers, I'm sure she regretted not getting that Groupon for yoga classes before the Zombie Apocalypse.
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#15 Posted on 1.4.13 1440.53
Reposted on: 1.4.20 1441.41
Biggest ratings ever. (insidetv.ew.com) Another milestone.
Tenken347
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#16 Posted on 1.4.13 2018.40
Reposted on: 1.4.20 2019.19
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker

    Move Carl to FX cause that shooting was Justified. The kid was inching closer to Carl and hadn't dropped the gun. Carl was protecting Herschel. And he's dead right in his logic about the Governor. He's a kid, and there's a real-life boogeyman out there killing his people. You can't agree to get along with the shark in Jaws, either.



What you're missing, though, is that the show explicitly said that it was this way of thinking that turned Phillip into the Governor. "Kill or Die" is no way to actually live - it literally means turning into a sociopath. You can't agree to get along with the shark, but not every fish in the sea is a shark, and if you treat them like they are, eventually you're the shark.
lotjx
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#17 Posted on 1.4.13 2100.45
Reposted on: 1.4.20 2101.05
    Originally posted by Tenken347
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker

      Move Carl to FX cause that shooting was Justified. The kid was inching closer to Carl and hadn't dropped the gun. Carl was protecting Herschel. And he's dead right in his logic about the Governor. He's a kid, and there's a real-life boogeyman out there killing his people. You can't agree to get along with the shark in Jaws, either.



    What you're missing, though, is that the show explicitly said that it was this way of thinking that turned Phillip into the Governor. "Kill or Die" is no way to actually live - it literally means turning into a sociopath. You can't agree to get along with the shark, but not every fish in the sea is a shark, and if you treat them like they are, eventually you're the shark.


Sadly, I think the kill or be killed theory is going to win out on the show and in the comic. There is a lot of how civilized is man when there are no rules and what we are seeing is not very civilized. I do think the end of the show will be just Rick alone walking into a field of walkers and that is it. I see little or no hope and that is probably Rickman's point. I just disagree with it. Humanity's greatest strength is creating communities. In communities there is hope.
Matt Tracker
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#18 Posted on 1.4.13 2155.17
Reposted on: 1.4.20 2155.50
Carl had to shoot Shane. Carl had to shoot Lori. The only emotional remnant to the pre-walker existence is his Dad who was the "other guy" in his relationships. Rick has kept them alive sometimes despite himself, and Carl has had to do what his dad was unable to. Twice. He is now a product of the current world, and that world is brutal and rewarding for pro-active violence.

When TLMT and I consider the end game for this show, it's close to The Searchers. The people who have survived or thrived in the wilderness cannot come into whatever society emerges. They make that new order possible but they are too uncivilized to enjoy it.Carl is young enough to return from such a dark turn. But if he has to stand outside the gates after delivering Judith to whatever Camelot or Xanadu they find, it's a result of the choices that kept them alive.

This show no longer indulges shades of gray. It's black and white morality, and Carl has only seen the disadvantages of walking the straight and narrow. It's heartbreaking. But the world has turned.
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#19 Posted on 2.4.13 0153.28
Reposted on: 2.4.20 0159.01
I was a bit letdown by the finale. This season had the reverse climatic direction of season 2, but I still feel it was stronger than season 2.

One part of the episode I noticed was that after Rick's group fought off Woodbury's group, they all huddle up in a emergency meeting about what to do next. Everyone is arguing about whether or not they should go after the the Woodbury group. The camera closes in on Rick and he starts to just hear white noise which he quickly snaps out of it and picks a team to follow him and head after the Governor.

Elsewhere The Guv pulls over the fleeing members of his group demanding they all go back and dig into the prison. A similar argument arises amongst the Woodbury group about whether to go back to the prison or continue fleeing to Woodbury. The camera zooms in on the Governor, he hears the white noise and proceeds to lose his shit on everyone. I thought that was a very clever way to not only depict how vastly different both group leaders are under pressure, but also shows a severe contrast to how both Rick and Guv are now mentally as opposed to the beginning of the season.

Andrea's death didn't affect me at all. She was just such a inconsistently written character with her "excuse me" face. She was more tolerable this season than last season I'll say.

Carl shot first. He should of too, that kid was inching for a shot, and I clearly remember Hershel telling the kid to drop his gun not hand it over.


dMr
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#20 Posted on 2.4.13 0230.58
Reposted on: 2.4.20 0231.42
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Carl had to shoot Shane. Carl had to shoot Lori. The only emotional remnant to the pre-walker existence is his Dad who was the "other guy" in his relationships. Rick has kept them alive sometimes despite himself, and Carl has had to do what his dad was unable to. Twice.
You're remembering the Carl/Rick/Shane showdown a bit funky. Rick killed the jeebus out of him. Carl didn't shoot Shane because Rick couldn't, except in the sense that Rick simply had no idea Shane was 'sneaking' up on him (which wasn't unreasonable given that he'd just killed him 30 seconds previous).


    He is now a product of the current world, and that world is brutal and rewarding for pro-active violence.

Yes and no. Trust is certainly hard to come by and letting your guard down in front of strangers is seldom rewarded, but if the Ricktatorship had welcomed Tyrese and Co into the group they'd have gained some valuable allies who wouldn't have toddled off to Woodbury and given the Governor the layout of the prison, allowing the prison to come under attack shortly after.

Proactive violence has its place in their world, but without *some* level of trust and 'community building' the Not A Ricktatorship Any More's numbers will just inevitably dwindle to the point where they're all dead inside a season or two.


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