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The 7 - Baseball - Rolen, Rolen, Rolen
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odessasteps
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#1 Posted on 30.7.02 0700.50
Reposted on: 30.7.09 0715.15

Anyone want to buy a Scott Rolen Phillies jersey?

*sigh*

I have tickets to see the Phils play Cardinal Nation in three weeks and I know will have the pleasure of seeing Rolen and J.D. Boo coming to the Vet as visitors.
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evilwaldo
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#2 Posted on 30.7.02 0938.13
Reposted on: 30.7.09 0955.40
Rueben Amaro was on 610 this morning trying to defend the trade. The morning crew just ripped him and made him and the organization look like the biggest idiots ever to walk the face of the earth.

I can't wait to hear Rolen's first comments about the Phillies organization.

odessasteps
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#3 Posted on 30.7.02 0940.48
Reposted on: 30.7.09 0959.03

I'm surprised WIP could be bothered to talk about Rolen with the Iverson stuff happening yesterday.

I didn't even think WIP knew the Phillies existed.
Papercuts!
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#4 Posted on 30.7.02 1005.36
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1020.43

    Originally posted by odessasteps
    J.D. Boo coming to the Vet as visitors.
You guys gonna throw batteries at him again? lol
Grimis
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#5 Posted on 30.7.02 1015.19
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1029.10
I think the Phils did what they had to do. They needed to get something for Rolen(as opposed to letting him walk via free agency) and with the potential labor situation negating any draft pick compensation, they had to strike while the iron was hot. Bud Smith has a tremendous upside and they may be able to move Timlin to a contender who needs veteran bullpen help(Anaheim?)

Best rumor for now is Cliff Floyd on the move(again) to Atlanta via Oakland.
Spiraling_Shape
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#6 Posted on 30.7.02 1034.01
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1035.41
Yeah, as a Phillies fan, this is certainly a sad thing, but we knew he wasn`t coming back. At least we got some players with potential..Polanco`s no Rolen of course, but he`s not a total stiff. Bud Smith is a young pitcher with an upside, and Timlin`s a veteran reliever. This isn`t like all the teams just handing their players over to the Yankees for a bag of baseballs. And Rolen apparently wants to stay with the Cards, so he`s not just a rent-a-player for them.
Tom Dean
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#7 Posted on 30.7.02 1038.09
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1044.22
Rolen's kind of tough to judge. He's clearly the best third baseman in the NL, and yet, I still don't think he's a "superstar". If all the young 3B around like Hank Blalock, Sean Burroughs, and Adrian Beltre develop as they should, then Rolen will not look so great. A lot of his perceived value is simply due to the fact that there happen not to be a lot of good third basemen right now. Then again, Rolen himself is still young enough to improve. It's tough to say how much he is worth. But, surely he does help St. Louis this year, as they gave up nothing they needed. And surely, Philly should have realized that they had no chance to re-sign him and traded him before the season started. Then they presumably could have gotten more for him.

I guess St. Louis decided that Pujols wasn't a third baseman. Pujols/Edmonds/Drew could be an all-time OF if Drew were ever healthy.

I really hope MLB realizes just how bad it will look if Montreal trades off players.
Grimis
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#8 Posted on 30.7.02 1121.21
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1129.09
Pujols' average is 70 points higher as a LF than as a 3B. Plus there's the defensive issue...

As far as young 3B, you can exclude Burroughs; he's down at AAA Portland learning to play 2B. San Diego has a kid even better than Burroughs named Xavier Nady who plays 3rd. And don't forget Mark Teixeira, the switch-hitter for Texas who will make people forget about Hank Blalock is he stays consistent up the line.
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#9 Posted on 30.7.02 1136.39
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1137.07
Rolen`s offense hasn`t lived up to his potential, but the guy is the best defensive third-baseman in baseball.

Last week, he made a great play behind our debuting rookie starter Brett Myers. Myers said in the press conference that he`d never had someone playing that calibre of third base behind him, and a reporter said back, "Don`t get used to it." :(
Guru Zim
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#10 Posted on 30.7.02 1248.17
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1250.08

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Pujols' average is 70 points higher as a LF than as a 3B. Plus there's the defensive issue...

    As far as young 3B, you can exclude Burroughs; he's down at AAA Portland learning to play 2B. San Diego has a kid even better than Burroughs named Xavier Nady who plays 3rd. And don't forget Mark Teixeira, the switch-hitter for Texas who will make people forget about Hank Blalock is he stays consistent up the line.



Don't believe all the hype about Nady. They've been telling us that he plays second, third and short for a long time, but we've had openings at almost every one of those positions for the last two seasons and he hasn't been up once.

This, while we have picked up Rule 5 guys at key positions like Short....

I'm sure he will be good, but Klesko and Nevin have apparently made it clear that they would rather be at third and first for at least this season. They are team players and will make the move to make room if they have to, but it really seems like they prefer it where they are now.
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#11 Posted on 30.7.02 1333.00
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1337.28

    Originally posted by odessasteps

    I'm surprised WIP could be bothered to talk about Rolen with the Iverson stuff happening yesterday.

    I didn't even think WIP knew the Phillies existed.



Amaro called into the show. That alone shows his intelligence level.
odessasteps
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#12 Posted on 30.7.02 1618.10
Reposted on: 30.7.09 1621.56

Im surprised the Phillies didn't sacrifice David Brazier instead, since he (used to be at least) is a regular guest on the morning show.
Big Bad
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#13 Posted on 31.7.02 2316.52
Reposted on: 31.7.09 2323.12
As a former Jays fan, I can state that any team that trades for Mike Timlin is making a BAD DAMN MOVE.
Zaphod
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#14 Posted on 1.8.02 0409.25
Reposted on: 1.8.09 0415.34
Well, so ends the Reds' hunt for the NL Central title. With Rolen on board, I think the Cards will now be uncatchable. It would've been worth it for us to positively shower the Phillies in prospects just to keep him out of St. Louis, but our chickenshit owner nixed the deal that would've gotten him for Brandon Larson and Scott Williamson (far more than the Cards shelled out for him). *grumble*
Rudoublesedoublel
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#15 Posted on 1.8.02 1017.30
Reposted on: 1.8.09 1029.11
I'm a Cardinal fan who is trying to be happy about this trade. I think that Bud Smith is going to be a star one day. If memory serves the Cardinals traded Steve Carlton to Philadelphia a long time ago; I just hope this isn't a case of history repeating itself. Palanco is an excellent player. He may not have the power of Rolen, but he hits for a better average and has more speed. He may not be as good as Rolen defensively, but he's no slouch with the glove either. I don't know about Timlin. I haven't followed the box scores closely enough to know how well he was playing, but I do know it isn't a good idea to give up contributing pitchers for the pennant run.

The question is, will Rolen stay in St. Louis? The easy answer is "McGwire and Edmonds liked St. Louis enough to stay, so Rolen will too." If Rolen stays, then the Cardinals made a decent deal; if Rolen takes the big money in the off-season, then the Cardinals will have given away a future big time pitcher and a very versatile player for nothing.

One thing, who are Brandon Larson and Scott Williamson and why are they a better "tag team" than Bud and Placido?
Tom Dean
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#16 Posted on 1.8.02 1131.42
Reposted on: 1.8.09 1132.25
Larson is a rookie third baseman, 26 or 27 years old so not a prospect really, but he has played well so far this year since he was called up maybe a month ago. Williamson was the '99 Rookie of the Year as a closer... they tried to make him a starter in '00, which was working pretty well, but then he got hurt and missed all of '01 with an injury. This year, back in the pen, he has been solid although not amazing. That probably is a better package than what the Cards offered. Would have been a good trade for the Reds too, although their main need really is starting pitching, as far as I can see.
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#17 Posted on 1.8.02 1535.14
Reposted on: 1.8.09 1553.00

    Originally posted by T.R.
    Larson is a rookie third baseman, 26 or 27 years old so not a prospect really, but he has played well so far this year since he was called up maybe a month ago. Williamson was the '99 Rookie of the Year as a closer... they tried to make him a starter in '00, which was working pretty well, but then he got hurt and missed all of '01 with an injury. This year, back in the pen, he has been solid although not amazing. That probably is a better package than what the Cards offered. Would have been a good trade for the Reds too, although their main need really is starting pitching, as far as I can see.


I won't argue with you about the Reds needing some starting pitching. Moehler didn't look too bad last night against the Dodgers, aside from that 4-run inning he gave up (the bullpen then proceeded to let the horse out of the barn), and it looks like Gullett MIGHT be getting Dempster back on track. Still, I don't understand optioning one of their best pitchers, Chris Reitsma, back to AAA to make room for the returning Gabe White. They needed another lefty reliever, since Bruce Chen is all potential and no payoff, but Reitsma shouldn't have been the one to go. I'd rather release or risk losing via waivers someone like Joey Hamilton, but that's just me. But back to the subject at hand, I still maintain that, even if Rolen wasn't really a piece the Reds needed, it would have been worth getting him just to keep him out of the Cards' clutches. His presence makes the already scary Cardinal lineup even more dangerous, since it allows them to go lefty-righty-lefty-righty and prevent opposing managers from capitalizing on match-ups.

As for Larson, while not exactly a prospect, he fits the Phillies better than Polanco does. Don't get me wrong, I think Polanco is a fantastic utility man and a servicable starting third baseman. That said, the Phillies desperately needed somebody who could hit with some power, which is the one thing Larson does that Polanco can't really do.

As for Williamson, although it appears he peaked early and may never regain his '99 form, he's still sometimes absolutely overpowering and can serve any role in the bullpen. More importantly, he's a lot younger than Mike Timlin, and since the Phillies need youth in order to rebuild, he'd be a better fit there.
SerWolfe
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#18 Posted on 3.8.02 0040.09
Reposted on: 3.8.09 0052.03
Eh. I think this trade is a great trade if Rolen stays in st. louis. He wants to play for a competitor and have the majority of support behind him. Polanco is a great ballplayer.... useful at many positions... and bud smith can be a great pitcher... maybe. Timlin is an average reliever.

We picked up and All-Star third baseman.... a guy that can have better numbers with the lineup cushion the redbirds will give him. We got him for a good utility player (everyday third baseman now) a average reliever..... and a pitching prospect that is more control then power obviously... i would take that trade any day.

They have a great chance now for the post season now i believe. Now if we can get williams or stephenson healthy.
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