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14.10.12 2025
The 7 - Print - THE Superhero Power Couple
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John Orquiola
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#1 Posted on 23.8.12 1044.21
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1044.23
You've probably heard by now that yesterday, DC broke the news via Entertainment Weekly (shelf-life.ew.com) that starting in Justice League #12, Superman and Wonder Woman will officially be a couple. Permanently. (For now.) This is the "new status quo", according to Geoff Johns.

Curious to hear opinions about this.

Lois Lane is out of the picture romantically and has been since The New 52 reboot of a year ago. She has no love feelings for Superman or Clark Kent, nor vice versa.

Comic book creators weighed in. (newsarama.com)

Myself, if they actually have good stories about it, it sounds great to me. Although this development in Justice League, which is the "new status quo", has no relationship to what's actually going on in Brian Azzarello's great Wonder Woman book, where she narrowly avoided being married to Hades and there's speculation she could get involved with Orion of The New Gods (though that's probably null and void now).

Of the creators' opinions, Tom Breevort of Marvel hit my main sticking point:

"It doesn't do much for me personally, though, in that it takes Superman one more step away from being relatable as a human being. Now he's a super hero with a super hero girlfriend--why does he bother with the Clark Kent glasses at all?"

What do you think about Clark and Diana?
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lotjx
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#2 Posted on 23.8.12 1109.05
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1109.19
Tom Breevort sums up my feelings as well. Yes, we have seen Sups tap that Wonder Azz in the pretty close to perfect Kingdom Come as well as the less than perfect probably the biggest pile of shit in DK2. Yes, Sups and Diana are probably the best hook-up both in the psychological and physical sense, yet it doesn't really work. Superman needs Lois to be his anchor into the world of man. If she is not there, he is just an alien with a Jesus complex. Same goes for Diana as well. Without a regular guy to help ground her, she is the bully big girl in the school yard who beats up the boys.

Matt Tracker
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#3 Posted on 23.8.12 1116.21
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1116.23
Two reactions from a diehard Wonder Woman fan.

One: I see a default attitude that Wonder Woman isn't a complete character unless she's got a man. This is a Western cultural expectation. It goes beyond comic stereotypes or the reflexes of male editors.

Having said that, I like the idea of Diana having SOME kind of confidant/emotional intimate. To keep her strong, she's unfortunately so often made isolated and cold. She needn't be. In the modern iterations of the character, she is a symbol to many, and that leads to an abstraction, so much that she doesn't get the character development of so many others main event characters. I see this as a danger of writing her as an icon, not writing her as a woman.

I have complaints about editors and creators chasing the male demographic with bad character adjustments, but I see Diana's deficiencies as pretty similar to Aquaman's. She has a kingdom, she operates in an extreme monarchy, one affected by magic and mythology, and she faces a challenge with gusto so often she could be considered antagonistic by default. Of course Aquaman has Mera, the rare equal partner for comic heroes, and for a long time Diana has Steve Trevor, her Lois Lane.

So two: Diana, when she has a relationship, would credibly lean to the resolute and the active. Well, you can't get more principled and forthright than Superman. Diana's universe is designed by and ruled by and conflicted by figures who can't discipline themselves. Superman embodies the right choice at the right time. Who wouldn't find that attractive?

A relationship between the two, even temporary, makes so much sense that many, including me, spend too much time trying to find a more creative partner for her (Aquaman, Batman, a photographer who works with the United Nations, etc.). But how can a Greek warrior goddess not engage with an Apollonian protector?

As a comic reader, I'm for this because I think it's reasonable and, with the New 52, more likely than before. As a cynical comic consumer, I think these extrapolations will be shallow.
Big Bad
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#4 Posted on 23.8.12 1200.38
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1200.38
Let's not overlook the fact that Lois Lane herself is one of the most iconic characters in comics, so does this reduce her to just a minor supporting character in the Superman books, or what? It's like how Betty Brant was a major part of the Spider-Man titles for the first 100 issues or so but has been a fairly negligible supporting character since then. Modern Spidey readers could tell me, how has Mary Jane been portrayed since One New Day? Is she still a big part of the Spidey comics?
kentish
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#5 Posted on 23.8.12 1207.42
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1207.42
Didn't they have sex in the stratosphere and create earthquakes or something in The Dark Knight Strikes Back? FRANK MILLER DID IT FIRST! :)
Matt Tracker
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#6 Posted on 23.8.12 1213.28
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1213.38
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Let's not overlook the fact that Lois Lane herself is one of the most iconic characters in comics, so does this reduce her to just a minor supporting character in the Superman books, or what? It's like how Betty Brant was a major part of the Spider-Man titles for the first 100 issues or so but has been a fairly negligible supporting character since then. Modern Spidey readers could tell me, how has Mary Jane been portrayed since One New Day? Is she still a big part of the Spidey comics?


She just bought a nightclub. She's supports Peter as a close friend (even joining him for dinners with Aunt May and her new husband). But honestly the last two years or so of Spidey have gradually replaced all the classic Spidey supporting cast with Horizon Labs and the Avengers/FF.
Tenken347
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#7 Posted on 23.8.12 1523.23
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1524.55
My agreement with Brevort on this issue is tempered by the fact that I also agree with what Kurt Busiek said in that article. I don't see it as a reasonable long-term "status quo," but if there's room to do it with Lois (temporarily, I hope) out of the picture, then there could be some fun stories in it.
John Orquiola
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#8 Posted on 23.8.12 1538.05
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1538.43
I hope there are good stories in it, and not just the expected "wink wink" super sex scenes/property damage visuals that's bound to happen.

It's been a year and I really couldn't tell you what the plan for Superman is. Much less WHO he is in The New 52. And neither can anyone else including DC Editorial, and especially not George Perez, who left Superman within 6 issues because of DC Editorial's indecision regarding the character's status quo.

Superman is going into it's third creative team in a year. The Superman title is bland, middle of the road, dreck. Action Comics happens in the past and is subject to Grant Morrison's inconsistencies. Superman cameos in other books but he's hardly made an impression since the reboot. In Justice League, Superman is almost a background player to the point where there's a scene in a recent issue about how Superman just hovers(!) and observes the other Leaguers and doesn't say much. Superman's bungling and the lack of clarity regarding his direction and character is one of the worst things about the reboot.

So suddenly, 'Superman and Wonder Woman are a couple' is the first interesting thing about Superman in a year. It doesn't address any of the problems with the character since the New 52, but hey, he's banging Wonder Woman. That'll distract everyone for a while.

I am cynical. It's no wonder I cling to Smallville. That's a Superman I at least understand.

(edited by John Orquiola on 23.8.12 1341)
kentish
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#9 Posted on 23.8.12 1753.50
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1753.59
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    I hope there are good stories in it, and not just the expected "wink wink" super sex scenes/property damage visuals that's bound to happen.

    It's been a year and I really couldn't tell you what the plan for Superman is. Much less WHO he is in The New 52. And neither can anyone else including DC Editorial, and especially not George Perez, who left Superman within 6 issues because of DC Editorial's indecision regarding the character's status quo.

    Superman is going into it's third creative team in a year. The Superman title is bland, middle of the road, dreck. Action Comics happens in the past and is subject to Grant Morrison's inconsistencies. Superman cameos in other books but he's hardly made an impression since the reboot. In Justice League, Superman is almost a background player to the point where there's a scene in a recent issue about how Superman just hovers(!) and observes the other Leaguers and doesn't say much. Superman's bungling and the lack of clarity regarding his direction and character is one of the worst things about the reboot.

    So suddenly, 'Superman and Wonder Woman are a couple' is the first interesting thing about Superman in a year. It doesn't address any of the problems with the character since the New 52, but hey, he's banging Wonder Woman. That'll distract everyone for a while.

    I am cynical. It's no wonder I cling to Smallville. That's a Superman I at least understand.

    (edited by John Orquiola on 23.8.12 1341)

I agree, Superman as a whole has to be the biggest fail of the whole DC 52 relaunch, and that should be pretty embarrassing to DC. Well, I will always have the first 4 issued of Morrison's Action run, which were pretty cool before it too seemed to go off the rails.
lotjx
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#10 Posted on 23.8.12 1836.14
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1837.44
I think the major problem with DC is too many chiefs in the kitchen. You have a lot of stronger personalities working on books with people who think they know what they are doing. Its a receipt for disaster. There needs to be one editor and that is it. I think a lot of us know what it is like to work with a lot of bosses and no real head boss. It turns to mass confusion and only a handful of things work.

DC is pretty lucky, they have Nolan, Timm and others doing good work with their property to keep them relevant. I am getting GL, Batman and Catwoman for dirt cheap for a year and I get the feeling I am going to get ripped off.

odessasteps
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#11 Posted on 23.8.12 1848.12
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1850.50
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Let's not overlook the fact that Lois Lane herself is one of the most iconic characters in comics, so does this reduce her to just a minor supporting character in the Superman books, or what? It's like how Betty Brant was a major part of the Spider-Man titles for the first 100 issues or so but has been a fairly negligible supporting character since then. Modern Spidey readers could tell me, how has Mary Jane been portrayed since One New Day? Is she still a big part of the Spidey comics?


MJ is still part of the ASM supporting cast. She was just in this week's issue, having dinner with Peter, Aunt May and her husband (JJJ's father).

They've had Supes/WW hook up in non-continuity stories (like Dark Knight and Kingdom Come/The Kingdom), so they might as well do it in the DCU Reheat.
It's False
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#12 Posted on 23.8.12 1949.10
Reposted on: 23.8.19 1950.37
Does the term "Elseworlds" not mean anything anymore? You can have a great Superman/Wonder Woman coupling without tangling continuity into all kinds of knots. Kingdom Come and Act of God seemed to do it just fine.
odessasteps
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#13 Posted on 23.8.12 2010.56
Reposted on: 23.8.19 2011.21
    Originally posted by It's False
    Does the term "Elseworlds" not mean anything anymore? You can have a great Superman/Wonder Woman coupling without tangling continuity into all kinds of knots. Kingdom Come and Act of God seemed to do it just fine.


Well, they can do whatever they want now, since the old continuity is moot, right?

Except of course for all the people whose comic book knowledge is from the popular culture zeitgeist and not what actually happens in comics. They will be the ones asking why Supes isn't with Lois anymore.
John Orquiola
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#14 Posted on 23.8.12 2231.26
Reposted on: 23.8.19 2231.47
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I am getting GL, Batman and Catwoman for dirt cheap for a year and I get the feeling I am going to get ripped off.


You won't with Batman.

    Originally posted by odessasteps
    Except of course for all the people whose comic book knowledge is from the popular culture zeitgeist and not what actually happens in comics. They will be the ones asking why Supes isn't with Lois anymore.


That's true, if they ever pick up a DC comic. But DC is operating under the idea that people will look at Superman and Wonder Woman together and go, "Oh yeah, that makes sense", the way Batman and Catwoman "make sense".

(edited by John Orquiola on 23.8.12 2034)
ekedolphin
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#15 Posted on 14.9.12 0637.36
Reposted on: 14.9.19 0637.37
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    It doesn't address any of the problems with the character since the New 52, but hey, he's banging Wonder Woman. That'll distract everyone for a while.



Does DC actually have Superman engage in premarital sex? (I'm honestly asking, 'cuz I don't know.) I know that he and Lois did it in Superman II while he was human, and that's why Lois' son in Superman Returns is apparently half-Kryptonian. But I know little about comic canon.
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