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The 7 - Sports that aren't Baseball, Football, Basketball, or Hockey - Boxing
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Scottyflamingo
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#1 Posted on 25.3.11 1547.40
Reposted on: 25.3.18 1548.13
Does anyone keep up with it? If so, what in your opinion needs to be changed to make it the sport it once was?
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Matt Tracker
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#2 Posted on 25.3.11 1558.22
Reposted on: 25.3.18 1558.25
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    Does anyone keep up with it? If so, what in your opinion needs to be changed to make it the sport it once was?


NPR had a report recently on a "world series" of boxing with teams representing countries (npr.org). I can't say I find it appealing, but it's intriguing. It reminded me of Team Tennis (wtt.com), which works on the same notion.

I loved boxing when Wide World of Sports and HBO carried marquee match-ups. I think Lennox Lewis was born about ten years too late, and he stepped away when there was no opponent worth his time.

If it wasn't for Pacquiao, I don't know that I'd have any interest in it.
Leroy
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#3 Posted on 25.3.11 1630.02
Reposted on: 25.3.18 1631.31
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I think Lennox Lewis was born about ten years too late, and he stepped away when there was no opponent worth his time.


Lewis should have fought Vitali Klitschko again - if anything, just to back up the smack he was talking about his win in that fight.
JayJayDean
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Y!:
#4 Posted on 25.3.11 1647.47
Reposted on: 25.3.18 1648.01
I love boxing and still follow it like crazy. I think boxing's big problem right now is the sanctioning bodies (there are four major, recognized ones) rarely allow for unification fights, so the value in being "world champiion" simply isn't what it used to be. Contrast that with the UFC, where everyone knows who "the Man" is, and it becomes a real drawback in marketing guys.

Take Sergio Martinez...he IS the middleweight champion of the world. He beat Kelly Pavlik, who beat Jermain Taylor, who beat Bernard Hopkins. How many title belts does Sergio Martinez have? ZERO. By the time he fought Pavlik two belts had been stripped from Pavlik for various reasons, and the other two were stripped from Martinez - even though Martinez was fighting legitimate opposition at 160 - because HBO wouldn't approve Martinez's mandatory opponents for the fights to be shown on HBO.

Golden Boy's feud with Top Rank doesn't help things, either. Nor does Floyd Mayweather's generally dickiness and apparent lack of desire to fight Manny Pacquiao.

Thankfully, one of the Klitschkos is fighting David Haye in July so there will be a heavyweight unification bout, which should be pretty hyped.
Scottyflamingo
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#5 Posted on 25.3.11 1657.35
Reposted on: 25.3.18 1658.33
How do the sanctioning bodies work? Are they their own companies like say, UFC or WWE?

If this is the case, why hasn't one company just bought up all the sanctioning bodies like UFC is doing in MMA?

Also what is the logic in not having many unification matches?
JayJayDean
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#6 Posted on 25.3.11 1735.02
Reposted on: 25.3.18 1739.13
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    How do the sanctioning bodies work? Are they their own companies like say, UFC or WWE?

    If this is the case, why hasn't one company just bought up all the sanctioning bodies like UFC is doing in MMA?

    Also what is the logic in not having many unification matches?


The sanctioning bodies are their own entities. Think NWA vs. AWA vs. WWF, back in the day. They don't have any reason to purchase each other because none of them are struggling.

The reason there are fewer unification matches is that once a fighter wins a belt he is removed by the other sanctioning bodies from their rankings. So Wladimir Klitschko is the IBF and WBO heavyweight champion, Vitali Klitschko is the WBC heavyweight champion, and David Haye is the WBA heavyweight champion. It would stand to reason that if WBA's rankings were based in reality that the Klitschkos would be ranked 1-2 in some order, but instead Ruslan Chagaev and Alexander Povetkin are the WBA's #1 and #2 contenders. Thankfully it has all worked out that Haye and Wladimir have bypassed their inferior mandatory challengers to fight each other.

The ultimate farce of it all (especially in the WBA's case) is that once the fight on June 25 (or July 2) is over there will be (barring a draw) one fighter with three heavyweight belts, who will have up to three different mandatory challengers depending on how the post-fight rankings sort out. How will the WBA deal with this situation? If they follow their past form the Klitschko/Haye winner will be elevated to "Super Champion" status and then Chagaev and Povetkin will fight for the "WBA Heavyweight Championship" - the "regular" championship. And the WBA will collect sanctioning fees on both belts.

At this point it is customary on HBO - in the lead-up to a fight - to say "OK, here are the beltholders in this division...and HERE are the REAL 'stars' of the division." When your "champions" are not viewed as champions, that's a problem. (Especially when you contrast it with MMA, where the only guy with a reasonable claim to be the best fighter while not being in the UFC was Fedor until recently.)
Scottyflamingo
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#7 Posted on 25.3.11 2024.30
Reposted on: 25.3.18 2029.01
    Originally posted by JayJayDean

    The sanctioning bodies are their own entities. Think NWA vs. AWA vs. WWF, back in the day. They don't have any reason to purchase each other because none of them are struggling.

    The reason there are fewer unification matches is that once a fighter wins a belt he is removed by the other sanctioning bodies from their rankings. So Wladimir Klitschko is the IBF and WBO heavyweight champion, Vitali Klitschko is the WBC heavyweight champion, and David Haye is the WBA heavyweight champion. It would stand to reason that if WBA's rankings were based in reality that the Klitschkos would be ranked 1-2 in some order, but instead Ruslan Chagaev and Alexander Povetkin are the WBA's #1 and #2 contenders. Thankfully it has all worked out that Haye and Wladimir have bypassed their inferior mandatory challengers to fight each other.

    The ultimate farce of it all (especially in the WBA's case) is that once the fight on June 25 (or July 2) is over there will be (barring a draw) one fighter with three heavyweight belts, who will have up to three different mandatory challengers depending on how the post-fight rankings sort out. How will the WBA deal with this situation? If they follow their past form the Klitschko/Haye winner will be elevated to "Super Champion" status and then Chagaev and Povetkin will fight for the "WBA Heavyweight Championship" - the "regular" championship. And the WBA will collect sanctioning fees on both belts.


Whoa whoa whoa...slow down. Why wouldn't the winner of that fight take on Vitali and unify everything??


    At this point it is customary on HBO - in the lead-up to a fight - to say "OK, here are the beltholders in this division...and HERE are the REAL 'stars' of the division." When your "champions" are not viewed as champions, that's a problem. (Especially when you contrast it with MMA, where the only guy with a reasonable claim to be the best fighter while not being in the UFC was Fedor until recently.)


Well then:

A.) The "names" are good enough to be champ, so they should get title shots. Or

B.) The "names" aren't as good and are being protected by putting them up against cans. In which case, they shouldn't be names.

Is my thinking off here?
Mr. Boffo
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#8 Posted on 25.3.11 2200.22
Reposted on: 25.3.18 2200.39
Well if Wladimir wins, the problem is that it seems unliklely that the Klitschkos will ever fight each other.

“My brother and I have repeatedly stated that we don’t want to go into the ring against each other. We promised our Mom that we won’t do it. However, the interest in a possible match is great. The fans want to know who the strongest heavyweight in the world is. Therefore, we will once again try to talk to my mother. If she will not mind, the fight between us will be quite realistic,”

That was a year ago. No motion on it since. Plus, as JayJayDean said, one body's rankings tend to exclude the other body's champions.

What I wonder, JayJayDean (or someone else), is that you say none of the bodies are struggling. How can that be? Is there a hotbed of boxing activity somewhere else in the world? The whole point of Scottyflamingo's question was the assumption that it's not doing well here in the US, which sure seems correct to me.
JayJayDean
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Y!:
#9 Posted on 26.3.11 1151.41
Reposted on: 26.3.18 1151.54
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    A.) The "names" are good enough to be champ, so they should get title shots. Or

    B.) The "names" aren't as good and are being protected by putting them up against cans. In which case, they shouldn't be names.


It's actually "the best guys don't need the belts because they have lost their prestige and just serve to suck the money out of their pockets for little reward." I mean...sure, everyone *likes* to have title belts and Manny has gotten a lot of mileage out of winning "titles" in eight divisions, but you also have the sanctioning bodies in the way of good fights and great fighters choosing to *drop titles* in favor of making better fights.

    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    What I wonder, JayJayDean (or someone else), is that you say none of the bodies are struggling. How can that be? Is there a hotbed of boxing activity somewhere else in the world? The whole point of Scottyflamingo's question was the assumption that it's not doing well here in the US, which sure seems correct to me.


The WBO is largely based in Europe (most of their champions are European) and the WBC is based in Mexico - boxing is not struggling in those markets. The WBA...they simply create "super champions" and "interim champions" so they can get sanctioning fess from as many fights as possible. I don't know what the IBF's deal is but they are based out of New Jersey. My assumption is that none of them are struggling, based on the fact that I've never heard one word about that being the case. For instance, Manny Pacquiao is the big cash cow in boxing, right? In my mind if there were any issues with any of the sanction bodies they would be throwing themselves at Manny and Floyd to get all of their belts in a potential Pacquiao-Mayweather fight. Instead Manny wins the title at 140 and gets stripped...wins at 154 and gets stripped...AND Floyd doesn't even hold any title belts right now.

I don't think boxing is struggling as much as the perception is, there is just a lot more competition for sports fans' attention now. Pacquiao-Clottey drew 70k to Cowboys Stadium and Pacquiao-Margarito drew 50k AND huge PPV numbers. Klitschko and Haye are going to fight is a 60k-ish soccer stadium and the Klitschkos routinely draw huge crowds in Germany. Lots of fights in the US draw 10k-20k and pop decent ratings. Saul Alvarez fought Matthew Hatton on HBO three weeks ago and got their biggest fight rating in two years.

redsoxnation
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#10 Posted on 26.3.11 1540.15
Reposted on: 26.3.18 1540.22
The main problem for boxing is that historically the heavyweight division carries the sport. In the United States, the heavyweight division is dead. Plus, the sanctioning bodies are a bigger joke than they were back in the days when Jose Sulemein resided in Don King's pocket.
Scottyflamingo
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#11 Posted on 28.3.11 1207.44
Reposted on: 28.3.18 1208.14
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    The main problem for boxing is that historically the heavyweight division carries the sport. In the United States, the heavyweight division is dead. Plus, the sanctioning bodies are a bigger joke than they were back in the days when Jose Sulemein resided in Don King's pocket.


But why is the heavyweight division dead in the US? There's gotta be SOMEBODY out there that can at least become a contendor if the division is that weak.
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