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The 7 - Movies & TV - Lost 5x9 - "Namaste!" Register and log in to post!
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CxMorgado
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#21 Posted on 20.3.09 1100.10
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1100.18
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    At any rate, after three years, Lafleur is not the same Sawyer Jack knew when he left.


Exactly. Sawyer's grown, but Jack is still the same old stubborn Jack.

    Originally posted by dunkndollaz
    I read that Claire was in the shadows behind Sun in her scene with Christian but all I saw were hints of Smokey.


http://s5.tinypic.com/szc0ux.jpg
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#22 Posted on 20.3.09 1114.05
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1115.08
    Originally posted by dunkndollaz
    and Jack only got 6 people off the island because Sawyer did the noble thing and jumped from the helicopter and tempted fate that the Dharma shark wouldn't eat him


I didn't forget about Sawyer jumping off the helicopter but so what? That's still only 7 out of everybody that crashed. That's a very small percent and the others were either left on the island, left on the boat or were already dead.

As for Jack vs. Sawyer, yeah Sawyer has never been perfect. But let's not forget they've been in Dharmaville for three years now. Horace wanted them to leave right away, but Sawyer convinced him to let them stay for one week. I doubt after one week they decided they could stay forever. Sawyer probably had to gain their trust over and over again. I don't know if LaFluer is in charge but obviously he's got a lot of power and Miles, Juliet and Jin are at the very least respected and welcome in the community, if not leaders also.

Sawyer (with the help of Juliet) figured out how to get Kate, Hurley and Jack in the community and was able to pull the plan off. He thought quickly enough to put Sayid in jail where he would be safe. It's not the best case scenario but if Sayid and Radzinsky are alone then either Radzinsky kills Sayid or Sayid kills Radzinsky.

Then there are the hostiles. Judging by how they were surprised there was a hostile it seems the truce is going pretty well. I'm not sure that's the case if Sawyer doesn't have the little chat with Alpert where he reveals he's not just some regular Dharmative. After all the episode where Sawyer and friends show up there the hostiles are breaking the truce.

Maybe at the beginning Sawyer wasn't a good leader and we've only seen him as leader for 2 or 3 weeks, but he's actually been doing a good job of leading them for 3 years. I'm not sure Jack even had 3 good days in a row. Sure, Sawyer doesn't have Others, polar bears, and smoke monsters coming at him but he has already shown a few times that he can think under pressure.

Sawyer doesn't have Locke running around doing stupid things but clearly the cast of characters in Dharmaville aren't easy to deal with. Horace is getting drunk and Radzinsky is a little bit nuts. Plus at least Sawyer has built somewhat of a relationship with Locke. He would either help Locke or do a better job of keeping Locke under control. Jack on the other hand just didn't care about Locke one bit and that's why Locke had to go off on his own.

Maybe people are being a little harsh on Jack but I don't think Sawyer was out of line putting Jack in his place when he's clearly been doing a good job for 3 years now and Jack didn't do such a good job.
CxMorgado
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#23 Posted on 20.3.09 1125.42
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1125.44
    Originally posted by Quezzy
      Originally posted by dunkndollaz
      and Jack only got 6 people off the island because Sawyer did the noble thing and jumped from the helicopter and tempted fate that the Dharma shark wouldn't eat him


    I didn't forget about Sawyer jumping off the helicopter but so what? That's still only 7 out of everybody that crashed. That's a very small percent and the others were either left on the island, left on the boat or were already dead.


I think what he's saying is that Jack technically isn't the one who saved the O6. If Sawyer hadn't jumped, they wouldn't have made it. I don't think he's arguing numbers with you.
Spaceman Spiff
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#24 Posted on 20.3.09 1202.32
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1203.06

    and where is Mikhail ?

Being digested by several fish? Mikhail is dead.
wmatistic
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#25 Posted on 20.3.09 1226.02
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1226.24
That's a lot of armchair QBing Quezzy regarding what Jack did. No he wasn't perfect, but how was he to know the island would jump through time once they got off? Why would he believe Ben that the people on the boat were bad? What possible logic would lead him to think buying anything Ben said was a good idea at that point? And clearly Sawyer was on board with the idea himself, he did get on the chopper to begin with. And how could he know there was no way to get back and save the rest after getting off?

Jack had his moments like during Ben's surgery. He had much more on his plate than Sawyer. Everyone trying to kill him, dealing with people like Locke, Michael and Sawyer himself, having to take medical care of everyone, not having a clue what was going on, everyone keeping secrets from everyone else, and constant attacks. Sawyer has had the luxury of sitting on his ass for three years thinking.

And I certainly disagree that Sawyer could have kept Locke under better control. Locke was/is nuts. No one was going to control his crazy and don't forget almost every move Locke made ended up being very, very stupid.
Dexley's Midnight Jogger
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#26 Posted on 20.3.09 1338.58
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1339.31
So by being born in 1977, Ethan was about 27 years old when he attacked Claire and Charlie. I understand that it's a supernatural island that can make the sick well and Richard not age, but he looked to me like he was in his early forties. Kind of a neat backstory, however, that he was born to Dharma parents. I wonder how he joined up with the others/hostiles/island natives.
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#27 Posted on 20.3.09 1354.35
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1355.43
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

      and where is Mikhail ?

    Being digested by several fish? Mikhail is dead.


Not in 1977.
Spaceman Spiff
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#28 Posted on 20.3.09 1435.32
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1436.20
D'oh! I totally wasn't even thinking about that.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 20.3.09 1552)
Big Bad
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#29 Posted on 20.3.09 1536.17
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1539.01
Mikhail said originally that he wasn't recruited until the early 1990's after the Soviet Union dissolved, so we're not likely to see a younger version of him unless the Losties hang around Dharmaville for a long, long time.

    Originally posted by Dexley's Midnight Jogger
    So by being born in 1977, Ethan was about 27 years old when he attacked Claire and Charlie. I understand that it's a supernatural island that can make the sick well and Richard not age, but he looked to me like he was in his early forties. Kind of a neat backstory, however, that he was born to Dharma parents. I wonder how he joined up with the others/hostiles/island natives.


I'd almost have to say that some kind of time-shifting is going on there, since that would mean that Ethan (at 27) was also the Others' surgeon. We know that Ethan is one of the Others with off-the-island privileges, since he was there at Juliet's recruitment, so I'd suspect that he went off-Island to go to medical school (possibly at Wisconsin, where he got the sweatshirt) and the time-difference between the Island and the rest of the world possibly aged him a bit in the interim. Either that, or else they just claim that Ethan is one of those guys who looks older than he actually is. I think Thomas Mapother is well into his 40's in real life.

btw, I came across an interesting tidbit on Lostpedia in regards to real-life ages. Apparently in the episode where Ben rattles off Charlotte's personal background, he was supposed to cite her birthdate as 1970, rather than 1979. The change was made by Rebecca Mader, who was actually born in 1979, and didn't think she could realistically play someone nine years older. The producers and writers didn't catch it until after the episode aired. Obviously, the discrepancy created is that if Charlotte wasn't born until 1979, that couldn't have been the younger version of her that Daniel saw in the Dharma compound.

So just to clear things up, that was indeed young Charlotte in 1974, and she is around at the same time as Lafleur's crew.
odessasteps
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#30 Posted on 20.3.09 1944.29
Reposted on: 20.3.16 1947.20

Lindelof and Cruse told that story about Charlotte's birthday on the LOST podcast this week.

EddieBurkett
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#31 Posted on 20.3.09 2307.24
Reposted on: 20.3.16 2307.52
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Apparently in the episode where Ben rattles off Charlotte's personal background, he was supposed to cite her birthdate as 1970, rather than 1979. The change was made by Rebecca Mader, who was actually born in 1979, and didn't think she could realistically play someone nine years older. The producers and writers didn't catch it until after the episode aired. Obviously, the discrepancy created is that if Charlotte wasn't born until 1979, that couldn't have been the younger version of her that Daniel saw in the Dharma compound. So just to clear things up, that was indeed young Charlotte in 1974, and she is around at the same time as Lafleur's crew.


Sure, blame the actress who isn't on the show anymore to defend herself... I'll have to listen to that podcast. I suppose Mapother was all "have me born in 1977, I don't play a credible 40 year old."

Whether that's the story or not, I'm sure Cuse and Lindeloff will come up with a throwaway line to explain the discrepency.
wmatistic
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#32 Posted on 20.3.09 2350.40
Reposted on: 20.3.16 2351.13
I'm amazed they haven't made more mistakes with all the crazy stuff they have going on here so I can forgive this one.

Though it was almost shocking to see the slip up with the jeep this week. I actually rewound it to make sure I saw it. Near the beginning as they were first meeting up with Sawyer, they had the van and the jeep. Jin jumped in the jeep and took off. Sawyer turned around, talked and walked to the side and there was the jeep sitting behind him. Meaningless, I've just come to expect so much detail from this show it was surprising.
CxMorgado
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#33 Posted on 21.3.09 0009.45
Reposted on: 21.3.16 0010.54
The Charlotte thing seems like an easy fix to me... I was just rewatching season 4 and Ben literally just specified her as having been born in England. Since she was actually born on the island, they can just chalk it up to the cover story she was given from her parents or whoever being off due to the weird time discrepancy between the island and the rest of the world.
Mike Zeidler
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#34 Posted on 21.3.09 1418.15
Reposted on: 21.3.16 1418.17
When was it stated she was born on the Island? The Dharma people bring kids along with recruits all the time (cf. Ben, who was born off the island)
CxMorgado
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#35 Posted on 21.3.09 1651.06
Reposted on: 21.3.16 1651.33
    Originally posted by Zundian
    When was it stated she was born on the Island? The Dharma people bring kids along with recruits all the time (cf. Ben, who was born off the island)


IIRC, during the season 4 finale she stated the reason she came to the island was because she was looking for the place she was born.

Edit: Lostpedia confirms this.

(edited by CxMorgado on 21.3.09 1755)
StingArmy
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#36 Posted on 22.3.09 0627.54
Reposted on: 22.3.16 0628.12
    Originally posted by CxMorgado
      Originally posted by dunkndollaz
      I read that Claire was in the shadows behind Sun in her scene with Christian but all I saw were hints of Smokey.


    http://s5.tinypic.com/szc0ux.jpg

I went back and watched the episode on my DVR and I'm a little surprised at myself for not seeing that person in the background the first time around. It's not very dark at all, and the person (whoever it is, if it's not Claire) is actually moving and looks up and right at Sun. It almost looks like a crew member got into a shot that she wasn't supposed to be in. But obviously that's not the case, and whoever was lurking in the shadows was supposed to be there.

Can anybody remember (or provide a screencap of) what Claire was wearing the last time we saw a clear view of her? I'd be interested in comparing her attire to the attire of the person lurking in the shadows behind Sun.

    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Though it was almost shocking to see the slip up with the jeep this week. I actually rewound it to make sure I saw it. Near the beginning as they were first meeting up with Sawyer, they had the van and the jeep. Jin jumped in the jeep and took off. Sawyer turned around, talked and walked to the side and there was the jeep sitting behind him. Meaningless, I've just come to expect so much detail from this show it was surprising.

I went back and took a look at it. It's hard to tell, but Jin is in the jeep driving it away, so it's not just sitting there. I might grant you, though, that given how frantic he appeared to be to find Sun and the crashed plane, he was driving awfully slow to still be that close. In fact, he might have even stopped driving once he finished his lines for the scene.

And a side note that I keep meaning to bring up. A friend of mine who is much smarter than me had a theory way back in like season 3 or 4 that every time a character had a flashback, there was actually a bit of time travel going on. That is, whatever was going on in the flashback, they were experiencing it at the same time as whatever was going on in the present time on the island. Mind you, this theory came way before any mention of Tunisia or time traveling wheels of fortune or Daniel Faraday. Knowing what we know now, what do y'all think of this theory? Does it hold any weight?

- StingArmy

(edited by StingArmy on 22.3.09 0739)
EddieBurkett
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#37 Posted on 22.3.09 1128.18
Reposted on: 22.3.16 1128.29
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    And a side note that I keep meaning to bring up. A friend of mine who is much smarter than me had a theory way back in like season 3 or 4 that every time a character had a flashback, there was actually a bit of time travel going on. That is, whatever was going on in the flashback, they were experiencing it at the same time as whatever was going on in the present time on the island. Mind you, this theory came way before any mention of Tunisia or time traveling wheels of fortune or Daniel Faraday. Knowing what we know now, what do y'all think of this theory? Does it hold any weight?


I've had that same theory myself.

1. Desmond's Flashes Before Your Eyes and The Constant are basically regular LOST episodes where the character is aware he's bouncing around in time. I've argued that the Hatch made Desmond aware that the island allows you to mentally travel through time.

2. In Stranger in a Strange Land (Jack's tattoo episode with She Who Shall Not Be Named), Cindy and the kids show up just as Jack wakes up in his cell. Immediately before, we are watching Jack have a flashback where he's about to have sex, and when Jack asks Cindy "what are you doing here?", her reply is "Watching." I think they were watching Jack's flashback.

3. Charlie's Greatest Hits episode is basically an episode where he forces himself to relive his memories. He writes out a moment he's thinking about, and then we see it.

I've postulated this for a long time, so I've been looking for evidence to support my theories. Clearly, the Oceanic Six were never fully aware that their flash-forwards were actually the future, or else they'd at least have had deja vu at some point once off the island, but I think the characters are reliving the events passively, basically experiencing very strong memories, without realizing that they've been time traveling.

That said, I'm pretty sure Lindeloff and Cuse have dismissed t his theory. Pity.
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#38 Posted on 22.3.09 1145.27
Reposted on: 22.3.16 1147.00
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    That said, I'm pretty sure Lindeloff and Cuse have dismissed t his theory. Pity.

That'd be a shame. As far as evidence to support this theory goes, I forgot to mention Desmond. Specifically I'm thinking of when he woke up next to Penny with the new "memory" in his mind (thanks to Faraday telling him something new outside the hatch). Maybe all these flashbacks happen because someone has done something in the past to implant new "memories."

Of course there are flaws in this theory. First and foremost is the fact that they don't freak out about their new "memories" the way Desmond did about his. Second, there are probably at least a handful of flashbacks where this obviously wasn't the case, like maybe some of Mr. Eko's flashbacks about Yemi/how he became a priest.

To be honest though, I gave up concocting LOST theories for the most part by the end of season 3. There are just too many possible ways to explain the various mysteries of the show, especially back then before we started getting answers. Plus, if by some miracle I stumbled across a theory that made everything fit together-- well, where's the fun in that? I don't want to figure EVERYTHING out yet!

- StingArmy
wmatistic
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#39 Posted on 23.3.09 0849.32
Reposted on: 23.3.16 0851.20
    Originally posted by StingArmy

    I went back and took a look at it. It's hard to tell, but Jin is in the jeep driving it away, so it's not just sitting there. I might grant you, though, that given how frantic he appeared to be to find Sun and the crashed plane, he was driving awfully slow to still be that close. In fact, he might have even stopped driving once he finished his lines for the scene.



I think you missed it. We clearly see Jin driving away behind Sawyer, then shortly after that Sawyer walks and behind him we see the jeep sitting there very close(you have to be quick to see it) from an angle that doesn't let you tell if there is a driver, but it's clearly not moving and actually facing the water. Just a goofy slip up.

I think I too have given up on trying to guess what's going on. The theories were fun for a while but at this point I'm content to just let it play out and hope they explain everything before it's over.
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#40 Posted on 23.3.09 1817.08
Reposted on: 23.3.16 1817.21
    Originally posted by wmatistic
      Originally posted by StingArmy

      I went back and took a look at it. It's hard to tell, but Jin is in the jeep driving it away, so it's not just sitting there. I might grant you, though, that given how frantic he appeared to be to find Sun and the crashed plane, he was driving awfully slow to still be that close. In fact, he might have even stopped driving once he finished his lines for the scene.



    I think you missed it. We clearly see Jin driving away behind Sawyer, then shortly after that Sawyer walks and behind him we see the jeep sitting there very close(you have to be quick to see it) from an angle that doesn't let you tell if there is a driver, but it's clearly not moving and actually facing the water. Just a goofy slip up.

No, I know exactly the moment(s) you're referring to. It's facing the water because Jin was driving away on a dirt road, and the dirt road winds that way before turning back to Dharmaville (or wherever Jin was driving off to). And I'm pretty sure you can see Jin's semi-poofy black hair sticking out from the sides of the headrest on the driver's seat. I do agree with you that it looks like the jeep isn't moving anymore, but I'm pretty sure Jin was in it and just stopped driving for whatever reason.

I'll stop now before Zed furrows his brow at us.

- StingArmy
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