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The 7 - Random - Dirtier Boxer? Register and log in to post!
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Trineo
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#1 Posted on 2.6.02 1532.24
Reposted on: 2.6.09 1532.56
Ok, after seeing the pictures from last night's Holyfield vs. Rahman fight I began thinking about Holyfield and his head butting. Also this morning on Outside the Lines was a piece on the Tyson vs. Lewis fight for next week. So here is the question; who is a dirtier fighter, Holyfield or Tyson?

My opinion is that Holyfield is the dirtier fighter. The reason is that Tyson is more of a loose cannon, you don't know what he's going to do, if he does anything, out of the ordinary in the ring. When Holyfield is fighting you can be sure of several "accindental" head butts. I don't know why people still give Holyfield the benefit of the doubt, he's done this over and over without showing any remorse for his dirty tactics.
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cranlsn
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#2 Posted on 2.6.02 2028.14
Reposted on: 2.6.09 2029.04
I don't know if it's a question of who's dirtier..they're both plenty dirty. Just one of 'em is a little bit better/sneakier at it.

Case in point...the ref might overlook an "accidental" headbutt or two, but EATING your opponent is definitely beyond the pale.

spf
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#3 Posted on 2.6.02 2223.10
Reposted on: 2.6.09 2223.31
Holyfield could write the book for current dirty fighters. He throws the best elbows in sports now that Bill Cartwright is retired from the NBA. He butts repeatedly, slips in backhands, and sometimes when he's frisky he gets a good lace rake in. Tyson is just nuts, and is more of an explosion of wrongness type fighter than a continually sneaky dirty fighter.

Of course, I'm not sure either one can top that guy Farnell (sp?) from last night on the Hatton/Mcgee undercard. That was so silly it was like the Daffy Duck cartoon where he boxed Elmer Fudd.
Gavintzu
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#4 Posted on 2.6.02 2227.30
Reposted on: 2.6.09 2229.01
I think Holyfield has so ingrained his method of headbutting (leaning towards his opponent at just the right time) that it's now instinct. He could probably pass a lie detector test about it ... that's how ingrained it is to his fighting style.

However, given that the whole point of boxing is to pound the bejeezus out of your opponent until he lies unconscious at your feet ... I don't get as worked up about "dirty fighters" as I do about, say, dirty hits from behind in hockey. You don't want to eat a headbutt? Don't become a boxer. That's what I did

tarnish
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#5 Posted on 2.6.02 2242.47
Reposted on: 2.6.09 2249.05

    I don't know if it's a question of who's dirtier..they're both plenty dirty. Just one of 'em is a little bit better/sneakier at it.


Whether it's fair or not, it's all about what you can get away with (see Bryant, Kobe, Game 6). But hey, as the coach tells the players afterwards, it's part of the game.

And although Bill Cartwright threw a great elbow in his day, I think the king of the elbow is Mark Messier. I swear there were a couple years there when he was watching more WWF tape than NHL tape...Again, the Moose, being who he is, rarely got/gets called for such infractions...
spf
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#6 Posted on 3.6.02 0114.39
Reposted on: 3.6.09 0115.57
You gotta remember though, Messier had on elbow pads. Big Bill had those pointy things flying unfettered. I think that's the tipping point there. Just ask Olajuwon which one had worse elbows ;)
evilwaldo
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#7 Posted on 3.6.02 0804.13
Reposted on: 3.6.09 0818.38
Rahman post-fight press conference was hilarious.

``I didn't think he could do so much damage with his head,'' Rahman said. ``He must have a metal plate in there or something.''

``I have a cut in the middle of my forehead, and an extra head on my head''

``I should have prepared for the head-butting better''
tarnish
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#8 Posted on 3.6.02 1035.57
Reposted on: 3.6.09 1036.02

    You gotta remember though, Messier had on elbow pads. Big Bill had those pointy things flying unfettered. I think that's the tipping point there. Just ask Olajuwon which one had worse elbows ;)


Have you ever seen the upper body padding that some hockey players wear? It's next to non-existant. I know Mess was one of those guys (in the eighties, anyway). And speaking of elbows, what about Gordie Howe (you ever notice it looked like he wasn't wearing shoulder or elbow pads? That's because he wasn't ).

I do think Rahman is complaining too much. If it were so widely known that Holyfield was a headbutt artist, his training staff owed it to him to prepare him for that.

I also have trouble believing that Holyfield has won all his fights with his head. Messier is/was more than flailing elbows, as was Cartwright, as was Howe (and Laimbeer...no, wait, Laimbeer was all elbows...). When a guy is ``putting asses in the seats'' the league is less likely to crack down.

I guess you could argue it's different in boxing, though.
Eddie Famous
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#9 Posted on 3.6.02 2004.05
Reposted on: 3.6.09 2008.54
Holyfield still has enough polish and talent (including talented elbows and forehead) to decision Rahman, who may end up being one of the least talented champs of all time. No offense really meant there, as he thoroughly zotzed Lewis in bout one. Holyfield is quite the whiner though.

spf- good call on the Hatton-Magee undercard fight. It was good to see the judges not swayed by the incompetence (favoritism) of the referee. We probably will never see the South African fighter again though
Hatton showed some good heart against the crafty Magee, despite being put on his pants in the first. Hatton is not ready for Judah or Tszyu, but would be interesting against some of the second tier 140-pounders. A smart manager would pick his opponents very carefully for about two years though.

Good to see some boxing fans here.
spf
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#10 Posted on 4.6.02 0011.09
Reposted on: 4.6.09 0011.20
Eddie, regarding Hatton, I think right now an interesting fight for him would be Jesse James Lejia. Lejia is past his prime, but still a decent name and a better fight than anyone he has had to contend with in his career thus far. Would be a nice test for him against a rugged guy who isn't inclined to stand in one corner the entire fight. And if you can corner a guy that much and not take him out, as Hatton did all night, Tszyu will kill you all sorts of dead. Though I will be interested to see what sort of comeback Judah as in him after his meltdown after the Tszyu fight.

I was stunned at the good decision in the Farnell fight. I figured no chance in hell the South African gets it. I guess judges in Europe are better than in Vegas or NYC
Holyfield can decision Rahman most likely, because Rahman was a one-punch champion likely not really deserving of his shot. But that still doesn't change the fact Holyfield got his ass handed to him by John Freakin' Ruiz! If I have to watch Holyfield fight for the title again, I will scream.

And lastly, everyone forget Tyson/Lewis, save your money, Barrera/Morales 2 is coming on June 22. And that might just be a good enough fight to give Gatti/Ward some competition for fight of the year.
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