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19.3.17 0011
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - More wrestlers linked to steroids
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rv581
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#21 Posted on 20.3.07 0910.23
Reposted on: 20.3.14 0910.30
    Originally posted by thecubsfan

      They're not in an actual competition like baseball or football, where the use of steroids allows them a leg up competitively


    Wrestlers with ripped bodies get more chances than those who do not. It's a personal choice, but if everyone else had decided to use HGH, you're kinda going to be forced to go along or give up.

I agree -- and in addition, it also taints the non-users, making 'em guilty by association.

With "sports entertainment" being such a bizarre profession, it's tough to think of a spot-on analogy, but how's this as a so-so attempt:

You're a truck driver. The law limits how many miles you're allowed to drive each day, each week, etc. And obviously, the more miles a trucker can drive, the more commerce he can deliver -- and thus, the more valuable he is to his company. Well, at your company, a large number of your peers are violating the law by driving a vast number of excess miles -- and taking illegal drugs to stay awake on the road. Additionally, your company is turning a deliberate blind eye to many of the tell-tale signs of this criminal activity, even going as far as REWARDING the truckers who broke the law with increased pay & opportunities.

By playing by the rules, your comparative work-rate will look less impressive. You're at an innate competitive disadvantage. Your overall value to the company is diminished. And you're put in a position where breaking the law could very well be a necessity, if you want to succeed in this career.

For professional wrestling -- an industry with NO health benefits, NO union, NO retirement plan, and where your at-will contract is up for renewal on a near-yearly basis -- I think you can make a compelling argument that this (alleged) widespread steroid / HGH use makes for an unsafe work environment.... for everyone.

The proof is in all the dead bodies.
kentish
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#22 Posted on 20.3.07 1208.14
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1208.33
I remember when Orton came back from injury after WM 21 and Vince called him out on national television for having a neck that looked like "a stack of dimes". Randy has gotten bigger and bigger in the year and half since. Coincidence? Can you blame the guy? I mean, what was the message there? I know it was prior to Eddie's death, but still.

Edge does seem to have learned from Eddie's death, or at least figured he would lay off the roids after his wife outed him.

I DO think Helms has bulked up in the last year. And has anyone noticed how much bigger Daivari is since he returned?

Take a look at Masters. Whatever diet he was on to lose 50 pounds in a month (to paraphrase HHH), apparently has been reversed since then. He is now back to his previous size. So after his initial weight loss, that's what, 40-60 lbs. he had gained in the last few months?
CRZ
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#23 Posted on 20.3.07 1216.43
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1217.04
    Originally posted by kentish
    Take a look at Masters.
Maybe you should take another look at Masters - there was a noticable size difference between the guy featured in the set of clips they ran before the Masterlock Challenge and the guy standing there in the ring.
DrDirt
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#24 Posted on 20.3.07 1308.32
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1309.09
I am not going to pass any judgement on any involved in this mess, in whatever sport or endeavour. However, please don't excuse what has (is) being done. They made a choice and must live with the results. Vince can't make them do this (I doubt doing roids is in their contract. I understand the desire to succeed but this goes beyond that. And ultimately, even if you achieve all your dreams, it just isn't worth it.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#25 Posted on 20.3.07 1312.11
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1312.22
The AP has picked up on the story:


    Eleven professional wrestlers have reportedly been linked in documents to the internet drug distribution ring that has produced charges against 20 people.

    In a web site posting, Sports Illustrated magazine said investigators uncovered the names while sorting through information seized in raids last month on Florida firms allegedly prescribing steroids and human growth hormone over the internet.

    Several Major League Baseball players, boxer Evander Holyfield and others have been linked to the scheme, most issuing strong denials in response to reports that surfaced in the wake of the raids.

    Arizona doctor David Wilbirt, the magazine reported, was investigated from 2001 to 2005 for allegedly writing 3,879 prescriptions to patients over the internet, some from the pro wrestling ranks and better known by stage names.

    Kurt Angle, a 1996 Olympic champion freestyle wrestler, allegedly received prescriptions for trenbolone and nandrolone in 2004 and 2005.

    Wilbirt was billed for the steroid stanozolol and another drug sent to pro wrestling star Eddie Guerrero, who died in 2005 from what a coroner said was heart disease complicated by the use of anabolic steroids.

    Oscar Gutierrez also allegedly received prescriptions for Wilbirt for steroids stanozolol and nandrolone while Shane Helms and Adam Copeland received human growth hormone, Sports Illustrated reported.

    Wrestler Randy Orton, who allegedly received prescriptions for six different drugs from the same two doctors whose names are linked to prescriptions for Los Angeles Angels outfielder Gary Matthews.

    Wilbirt, whose medical license has been suspended, told the magazine, "I don't remember half the stuff you are talking about" and added "they had done blood work and had laboratory work done and they had come to see me."

    Investigators are expected to deliver names of athletes who appear in the documents they uncover to sports leagues as early as next week, although the main focus of the probe is eliminating distributors not chasing customers.


{ EDIT: Link is here (hosted.ap.org) - CRZ }

(edited by CRZ on 20.3.07 1328)
RYDER FAKIN
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#26 Posted on 20.3.07 1638.22
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1638.45
From Mike Johnson, PwInsider.com

In an interesting bit of timing, there were quite a few Wellness tests given backstage at today's ECW/Smackdown taping in Cleveland, Ohio. One source estimated over two dozen WWE performers were given urine tests this afternoon. Since WWE doesn't give talent advance notice, there's no way to know whether the testing was already planned when the SI.com article naming several talents implicated in the steroid investigation broke yesterday afternoon. That said, it's entirely conceivable that a larger number of performers were admininstered tests in the wake of all the media attention.

* * * * *

Obviously not the kind of national attention they wanted for WM. I wish Hogan would have made it on this show. Full circle

Couldn't find Hulk on Arsenio, but here's Bad News and Savage. Why not

Click Here (youtube.com)

Click Here (youtube.com)

FLEA


cfgb
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#27 Posted on 20.3.07 1734.34
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1734.36
None of this is shocking. Did anyone REALLY think the roids were limited to Chris Masters and Big Poppa Pump?

I have a couple of friends who frequent indy shows all over Canada and the US .... They hang out with plenty of wrestlers at various parties or whatever. Apparently roids are commonly discussed amongst them as a perfectly normal natural part of being in with pro-wrestling. The story that had come back to me as well was that in 2002, just about everyone on the WWE roster except Spike Dudley and Kevin Nash were juicing (Nash because his legs simply could no longer handle it after his multiple surgeries ... Spike, who the hell knows why?)

Whatever happens, happens - and if they're busted because the government is honestly concerned about the health problems they'll be preventing over the long term then good on 'em. But if this is simply a witch hunt to say "look, I found a bunch of guys using STEROIDS", then drop it already.
OMEGA
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#28 Posted on 20.3.07 1758.54
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1759.01
    Originally posted by Packman V2
    The HGH thing isn't all that surprising, Austin freely admits to it in his book. And I personally dont see it as a big deal, now the juice on the other hand, that's a completely different story.


HGH is what enlarges the organs inside the guys' bodies. All the guys passing away from enlarged hearts is a direct response to this.
redsoxnation
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#29 Posted on 20.3.07 1830.10
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1830.10
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    From Mike Johnson, PwInsider.com

    In an interesting bit of timing, there were quite a few Wellness tests given backstage at today's ECW/Smackdown taping in Cleveland, Ohio. One source estimated over two dozen WWE performers were given urine tests this afternoon. Since WWE doesn't give talent advance notice, there's no way to know whether the testing was already planned when the SI.com article naming several talents implicated in the steroid investigation broke yesterday afternoon. That said, it's entirely conceivable that a larger number of performers were admininstered tests in the wake of all the media attention.

    * * * * *

    Obviously not the kind of national attention they wanted for WM. I wish Hogan would have made it on this show. Full circle

    Couldn't find Hulk on Arsenio, but here's Bad News and Savage. Why not

    Click Here (youtube.com)

    Click Here (youtube.com)

    FLEA







The interesting question is if any of the guys in the Big 3 matches on Mania don't do well on the Wellness Test do they get bumped from Mania, or do the results mysteriously not come to light until April 4th, thus providing the post Mania shows to occur to bury whoever has 'elevated enzymes' or whatever the term is this year?
kentish
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#30 Posted on 20.3.07 1902.58
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1903.30
I don't think we have to worry about Shawn testing for steroids, I don't think he is over 200 lbs these days.

And CRZ, I can't tell a big difference in Masters last night and in the clips. He may not be as big as he was before, but I think he is getting bigger every time I see him. Maybe the beard made him look thinner.

Let's take a look in a month or so and see if he has continued to grow. If he hasn't been suspended. ; )
HMD
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#31 Posted on 20.3.07 1916.09
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1916.14
Are 'elevated enzymes' a wellness violation? I don't think so. Lashley wasn't suspended for it, just taken off shows. I remember researching that and not being able to find this as a symptom of steroid use.

Though in the natural bodybuilding community, according to some friends I know, they're pushing high-end digestive enzymes as an 'answer to steroids'.
geemoney
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#32 Posted on 20.3.07 1959.14
Reposted on: 20.3.14 1959.23
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
      From Mike Johnson, PwInsider.com

      In an interesting bit of timing, there were quite a few Wellness tests given backstage at today's ECW/Smackdown taping in Cleveland, Ohio. One source estimated over two dozen WWE performers were given urine tests this afternoon. Since WWE doesn't give talent advance notice, there's no way to know whether the testing was already planned when the SI.com article naming several talents implicated in the steroid investigation broke yesterday afternoon. That said, it's entirely conceivable that a larger number of performers were admininstered tests in the wake of all the media attention.

      * * * * *

      Obviously not the kind of national attention they wanted for WM. I wish Hogan would have made it on this show. Full circle

      Couldn't find Hulk on Arsenio, but here's Bad News and Savage. Why not

      Click Here (youtube.com)

      Click Here (youtube.com)

      FLEA







    The interesting question is if any of the guys in the Big 3 matches on Mania don't do well on the Wellness Test do they get bumped from Mania, or do the results mysteriously not come to light until April 4th, thus providing the post Mania shows to occur to bury whoever has 'elevated enzymes' or whatever the term is this year?

They don't get taken off the road for violations anymore now, so I don't think the results would have any effect on WrestleMania.
Tenken347
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#33 Posted on 20.3.07 2020.09
Reposted on: 20.3.14 2020.28
Geemoney beat me to it, but yeah, guys don't get taken off the road for violations anymore. The reasoning being that taking guys off the road unfairly punishes the other guy(s) working that feud, as well as the company, which is left scrambling to plug a sudden hole. They do wind up working without compensation for the duration of their suspension, however. That means no WrestleMania payday even if you're on the show.
ShotGunShep
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#34 Posted on 20.3.07 2253.37
Reposted on: 20.3.14 2254.00
WOW! Hello everyone. I saw this story the other day and thought I'd come by here to check out what was being said. Anyway, good to be here and maybe I may stay awhile...

Here are my 2 cents as someone who has some intimate knowledge of performance enhancing drugs.

This, I don't think, surprises any of us here. Fortunately or unfortunately, the WWE brand of wrestling (or at least the modern wrestling world as a whole) is a popularity contest based on charisma and looks. Good looks means looking like a bodybuilder and looking like a bodybuilder means taking roids. Vince McMahon has furthered the issue (I won't necessarily call it a problem) because of his own personal love for bodybuilding and the male physique.

So what is wrong with guys taking these roids? Are they engaged in serious athletic competition? No. Does taking roids mean that one is guaranteed of success? No, but without them, success is very difficult. So pro wrestling (much like professional bodybuilding) is a world inwhich one must take gear to succeed at the highest level. Is this a problem? Not in my opinion. There is no entitlement to be a professional wrestler. And whoever enters the business will find out the reality of the use of steroids and/or HgH soon enough to be able to get out of the business.

There has been a lot made of the deaths in pro wrestling. Many people have made the connection between steroids and death, but this is very problematic. A causal relationship is hard to establish and can lead to some iffy conclusions (i.e. steroids contributed to death is read as steroids and only steroids CAUSED death). But if we are to believe that steroids are SO unhealthy that they will cause death, then why are we not seeing similar deaths in the world of professional bodybuilding? The two businesses share the common demoninator of rampant steroid use and abuse (and believe me, the pros of the IFBB are using WAY WAY more than your top WWE stars), but I believe they lack the commonality of recreational drug abuse. That to me, along with the damage done in the ring and on the road, is the real problem with wrestling, not just performance enhancing drugs.

The product of modern pro wrestling is partly 'sporno'. Fans don't want to see pale, pudge and hairy men in the ring. They want some sort of athletic aesthetic. This problem is NOT going away. It will be very interesting to see how VKM handles this.

Oh btw, I read the other day that HHH retore or tore the other quad. Holy shit, I can't believe he's coming back! This guy is dedicated. Wonder what kinda scrip he got!! :)
SEADAWG
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#35 Posted on 20.3.07 2352.40
Reposted on: 20.3.14 2352.50
    Originally posted by Tenken347
    Geemoney beat me to it, but yeah, guys don't get taken off the road for violations anymore. The reasoning being that taking guys off the road unfairly punishes the other guy(s) working that feud, as well as the company, which is left scrambling to plug a sudden hole. They do wind up working without compensation for the duration of their suspension, however. That means no WrestleMania payday even if you're on the show.

"Guys don't get taken off the road" seems like a misnomer, since, if I remember right, they have to work TV/PPV without pay but are still pulled off house shows. If they're only getting flown in for one show a week, that's not exactly being on the road.

This is all assuming that none of them have ever tested positive before, though. Which is probably a safe assumption, since I would imagine that any of those key guys missing a month of house shows would have been noticed. But from the way it was reported at the time, I don't think the "TV/PPV without pay" thing went past the 30 day punishment for the first positive test. Once they get two failures they're candidates for rehab, and a third positive test is the last strike. Unless they've changed it.
It's False
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#36 Posted on 21.3.07 0157.22
Reposted on: 21.3.14 0158.05
One of the worst parts of this story is that I remember when Eddie Guerrero died, ESPN's Colin Cowherd shouted "STEROIDS" and everyone just let him have it, because we refused to believe Eddie could be on 'roids.

Well, now Colin Cowherd's on his high horse. And he's not exactly being humble about it either, as he just ranted about it for over ten minutes. "LOOK! EDDIE GUERRERO WAS ON STEROIDS! I WAS RIGHT! WRESTLING FANS ARE STUPID! HAW HAW HAW! APOLOGIZE TO ME, WRESTLING FANS! UR STUPID BOOGEREATERS! HAW HAW HAW!"

Damn...

(edited by It's False on 21.3.07 0000)
RYDER FAKIN
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#37 Posted on 21.3.07 0704.37
Reposted on: 21.3.14 0704.46
One of the worst parts of this story is that I remember when Eddie Guerrero died, ESPN's Colin Cowherd shouted "STEROIDS" and everyone just let him have it, because we refused to believe Eddie could be on 'roids.

Well, now Colin Cowherd's on his high horse. And he's not exactly being humble about it either, as he just ranted about it for over ten minutes. "LOOK! EDDIE GUERRERO WAS ON STEROIDS! I WAS RIGHT! WRESTLING FANS ARE STUPID! HAW HAW HAW! APOLOGIZE TO ME, WRESTLING FANS! UR STUPID BOOGEREATERS! HAW HAW HAW!"

Damn...


Heh - his original point of contention (and what got people pissed) was not the steroid thing, it was when he said no one cares that Eddy died. And that it shouldn't have been news (not sports news anyway). And then now, obviously vindicated, he goes on and on about it - on a sports show

That's what most of these sports guys don't realize - they are blind pigs finding puddles of mud every now and then, but can't keep their story straight enough to know when to shut up about it

I hope he does AN HOUR on it today. Just to show how much no one cares

FLEA
rv581
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#38 Posted on 21.3.07 1219.17
Reposted on: 21.3.14 1219.19
Y'know, it would be a ballsy-as-hell move for TNA, but they might want to strongly consider announcing that, because of this news report, they will be suspending Kurt Angle from all TV & PPV appearances effective IMMEDIATELY. And then, in the same announcement, publicly challenge the WWE -- as the nation's largest wrestling company -- to IMMEDIATELY suspend from TV & PPV its wrestlers who've been linked to this scandal as well.

It would get the TNA name out in the mainstream media; establish TNA as a company that's trying to behave responsibly because it cares about its wrestlers and their safety; notify WWE viewers who don't watch TNA or follow Internet sites that Angle is now with TNA; give Angle an opportunity to rest & mend; and put a great deal of public pressure on WWE to reconfigure its Wrestlemania lineup at a very awkward time.

They could then book some of the TNA brand ambassadors on the talk-show circuit to highlight how RESPONSIBLE and CARING they truly are.

Yeah, you're playing with fire when you incorporate anything involving steroids into a wrestling-related PR campaign, but since this is already out in the public -- and so widely suspected anyway -- TNA could certainly decide that the tactical benefits to its brand & company exceed the risks.

Just a thought....
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#39 Posted on 21.3.07 1228.44
Reposted on: 21.3.14 1228.52
    Originally posted by rv581
    Y'know, it would be a ballsy-as-hell move for TNA, but they might want to strongly consider announcing that, because of this news report, they will be suspending Kurt Angle from all TV & PPV appearances effective IMMEDIATELY. And then, in the same announcement, publicly challenge the WWE -- as the nation's largest wrestling company -- to IMMEDIATELY suspend from TV & PPV its wrestlers who've been linked to this scandal as well.

    It would get the TNA name out in the mainstream media; establish TNA as a company that's trying to behave responsibly because it cares about its wrestlers and their safety; notify WWE viewers who don't watch TNA or follow Internet sites that Angle is now with TNA; give Angle an opportunity to rest & mend; and put a great deal of public pressure on WWE to reconfigure its Wrestlemania lineup at a very awkward time.

    They could then book some of the TNA brand ambassadors on the talk-show circuit to highlight how RESPONSIBLE and CARING they truly are.

    Yeah, you're playing with fire when you incorporate anything involving steroids into a wrestling-related PR campaign, but since this is already out in the public -- and so widely suspected anyway -- TNA could certainly decide that the tactical benefits to its brand & company exceed the risks.

    Just a thought....


As long as they use Steiner as "ambassador" I think this plan will work!
JustinShapiro
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#40 Posted on 21.3.07 1402.16
Reposted on: 21.3.14 1402.22
Considering TNA not only doesn't bother with a 3/4th-hearted "Wellness Policy" like WWE, but doesn't even pay for wrestlers' surgeries, are making Konnan pay them back for his kidney transplant, and fell over themselves to sign Kurt Angle after his wellness-related WWE departure, it might not be wise for people in wall-less houses to throw stones.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 21.3.07 1502)
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