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24.4.07 0109
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - So I finally got a tape of the 12/31 'Best of 2001' Raw show...
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Jim LotFP
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#1 Posted on 9.1.02 1959.46
Reposted on: 9.1.09 2010.36
I haven't watched very much 2001 wrestling at all (uh, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, and a Smackdown before Summerslam is all I can think of, oh yeah, plus a small batch of Nitros I was forced to endure at the beginning of the year)... so the best of Raw was pretty cool in some ways. I have kept up on things from the crew at slashwrestling, thesmarks, the Observer and the Torch because the industry itself still fascinates me so I think I have a good lay of the land... but actually seeing it? Whew.

Things I noticed:

1- Yeah, the Rock really is good on the mic.

2- The only straight match in the entire top 10 was the women's match. Everything else was a gimmick match or had screwjob endings.

3- The only real chain wrestling on the entire show was again the women's match. Eddie Guerrero and Dean Malenko got a standing ovation in the ECW Arena in 1995 for doing that sunset flip reversal sequence that Kiebler and Wilson did.

4- That King of the Ring streetfight was an abomination. it's one thing for 'hardcore' style wrestlers to slice themselves to shreds because that's all they can do, but an Olympian like Kurt Angle rolling around in glass?

5- Watching that street fight, and the TLC II match, I find myself actually hoping for a severe, crippling injury on live TV so they can just cut that shit out. And I don't mean to someone like the Big Show, I mean to someone that actually matters so they'll actually change things.

6- TONS of video game ads. And they all looked like things you watch rather than play. Damn I'm an old codger. And were all those CarrotTop Call AT&T ads necessary? If your ad is going to run 37492374 times, have more than 2 commercials filling those spaces, PLEASE. My fast forward button's broke on my remote control and I wasn't going to get up every 5 minutes... that Kung Pow movie looks a riot though.

7- Stephanie McMahon's the cutest of all the girls but damn, do any of them know how to dress?

8- What? What? I want to see a return of Who? "I went to the variety show and they had these wrestling matches in between the skits, I don't get it." Seriously, it looks full well like I just really couldn't deal with watching this stuff all the time. The highlight format worked well enough though.

9- If this stuff is the 'best' of 2001 for the WWF, I wonder what the 4/2/89 Flair-Steamboat match would be rated today by the experts.

10- Anyone got a 'best of Keiji Muto 2001' tape they can sell? I hear he had a great year...





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Freeway
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#2 Posted on 9.1.02 2135.17
Reposted on: 9.1.09 2137.10
Best of Benoit 2001, my friend...that tape'd sell like hotcakes... Let's find ten matches:
vs. Jericho (Ladder Match, Royal Rumble)
vs. X-Pac, Jericho & Guerrero (No Way Out)
vs. Angle (WrestleMania)
vs. Angle (Ultimate Submission, Backlash)
vs. Angle (2 of 3 Falls, Judgment Day)
w/Jericho vs. HHH/Austin (Tag Titles, RAW)
vs. Austin (WWF Title, Calgary RAW)
vs. Austin (WWF Title, Edmonton Smackdown!)
vs. Angle (Steel Cage, RAW)
vs. Austin & Jericho (WWF Title, King of the Ring)

Damn, that'd be a tape so fine, I'd buy a dozen!



Benoitaholic #258
JasonMF
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#3 Posted on 9.1.02 2310.32
Reposted on: 9.1.09 2310.45
LotFP -
1&2 Yeah, everything this year was really ridiculously screwy. That's why Benoit v. Jericho from Royal Rumble got my MOTY... It may have been a gimmick match, but there was a clean ending and NO RUN-INS. Can't say that for any of the other WWF MOTYCs this year.

4. Yeah, definitely. It's ridiculous they can't just let Angle wrestle. In fact, just about everything they do with Angle is ridiculous.

5. I keep hoping for that same severe, crippling injury... but I'm hoping it happens to SHANE MCMAHON.

7. I disagree. Wholeheartedly. In fact, I'd take just about any of the others before I'd take her. STACY KEIBLER 4-LIFE... Er... Well, 4-NOW, at least.

9. Flair and Steamer likely would've fallen into one of the spaces behind the Lingerie Match. Seriously. And isn't that sad?

And Freeway420
Hell, son, if you'd really buy a dozen, *I'll* make the damn tape for ya!



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JERICHO... IS... EXCELLENCE!"
The Vile One
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#4 Posted on 10.1.02 0044.33
Reposted on: 10.1.09 0106.36
I honestly believe the internet voting had little to no bearing on the best of 2001 show. If it did, then the Lingerie match wouldn't have been #4. WCW did a much better best of show in 99/2000 because at least that show aired all of Lyger/Pillman and Benoit/Booker T. They also got to show most of the Benoit/Hart tribute match. The TLC matches have already taken their toll on the Hardy Boyz. Their match at Vengeance proves it, or it proves that they do those damn stunt shows so much, they forgot how to wrestle.




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Chris Protege
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#5 Posted on 10.1.02 0131.19
Reposted on: 10.1.09 0147.36
1- Yeah, the Rock really is good on the mic.

And how.

2- The only straight match in the entire top 10 was the women's match. Everything else was a gimmick match or had screwjob endings.

The RAW tag ended in a screwjob?

A Bra and Panties match isn't a gimmick match? Wait, was it a B&P match or a Lingerie match or what? I never saw it. Either way, cavorting half-naked women=Gimmick.

4- That King of the Ring streetfight was an abomination. it's one thing for 'hardcore' style wrestlers to slice themselves to shreds because that's all they can do, but an Olympian like Kurt Angle rolling around in glass?

The match itself ages poorly, but I think they were trying to make a match to show Kurt Angle able to overcome some insane situation and still remain in control. It was part of the slow rise of Angle into the highest echelon of the WWF. Which they sorta scrapped in like three weeks in November.

6- TONS of video game ads. And they all looked like things you watch rather than play. Damn I'm an old codger. And were all those CarrotTop Call AT&T ads necessary? If your ad is going to run 37492374 times, have more than 2 commercials filling those spaces, PLEASE. My fast forward button's broke on my remote control and I wasn't going to get up every 5 minutes... that Kung Pow movie looks a riot though.

I still have no idea why they make an ad so utterly repulsive it makes you want to never use 1 800 CAL LATT. Unless it's secretly being paid for by those 1 800 Collect people, or this is some weird stip of the Antitrust agreement.

9- If this stuff is the 'best' of 2001 for the WWF, I wonder what the 4/2/89 Flair-Steamboat match would be rated today by the experts.

Most people I've run across who have extensive U.S. collections and minimal foreign stuff tend to place the 89 Flair/Steamboat stuff Way up there. And they did try and pimp the Rock, holder of the WCW belt, as up in the class of Flair and Steamboat and Race.

It remains all aboot Misawa and Kawada and sweet violent hate.

Anyway, the best WWF match of the year didn't make the ballot, at any rate. Benoit vs. Austin 5/31 on Smackdown was nearly 20 minutes, and it ruled. Even the Vince-related ending made sense.

Also, no Austin/Angle matches, no Rock/Jericho matches, and no Benoit/Angle matches made the list. Those are all very very good.

10- Anyone got a 'best of Keiji Muto 2001' tape they can sell? I hear he had a great year...

It's not really That great, although I might be saying that because I've been reading too much of the Other Arena, where they just mercilessly mock him. It's funny, though. Anyway, The Tenryu match (June 8) is really good, and probably my favorite actual Mutoh performance of the year. It kinda weirded me out the first couple times I saw it, as it looked like two old guys were just sorta doing moves and passing out. But it goes deeper. There was a match with Hiroshi Hase on June 6 some people like, some people love, and some people hate, and which I haven't seen. There was a match with Kawada on April 14, but the more I think about, the more I realize that match was Kawada working like a madman and Mutoh just sort being in his wake. Kawada does the Bestest Sell of the Shining Wizard ever. The Nagata match on August 12 for the G-1 Climax is real good, but it is all about Yuji. He's got the fire in him, although Mutoh isn't horrible or anything. The 10/8 Indicate of Next match was Metric Tons of Fun, but again, Nagata was all spunky. All of those Have had much good written about them, so they couldn't kill you to watch or anything.

Nagata is still better. As is Kawada. If jdw is still poking around this place, he would then proceed to list many more people...

Chris-In several ways...
dMp
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#6 Posted on 10.1.02 0132.16
Reposted on: 10.1.09 0201.15

Originally posted by The Vile One
The TLC matches have already taken their toll on the Hardy Boyz. Their match at Vengeance proves it, or it proves that they do those damn stunt shows so much, they forgot how to wrestle.




So..when exactly did they wrestle instead of doing stunt shows? Did I miss that match?

As for the top 10 matches being gimmick matches is most probably because that is what most people remember. At least the people that take the time to vote.
Probably because those matches have the bigger spots..
I sure yelled 'OMG!He must be dead!' when Benoit and Angle both did their move from the top of the cage, and I don't recall calling that during their usual Raw/SD matches..



"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing."
-Boromir



Heh..Boromir..he did a faster face-heel-face turn than Bret Hart in WCW..and that says alot!





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joecollins
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#7 Posted on 10.1.02 0205.00
Reposted on: 10.1.09 0206.58
The Hardyz did have a straight match v. Edge/Christian at No Way Out 2000. That was the last I remember. During their singles "pushes" this summer, they had some OK singles matches, Jeff against X-Pac and Matt against Justin Credible.

But I mean, two guys who lived in North Carolina and probably wrestled each other every day as kids should have been able to put something much better together. I really think of the two, Matt has more long-term upside because he hasn't taken nearly as many suicidal bumps as his brother and impresses me as the brother with a better grasp of basic psychology.




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Jim LotFP
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#8 Posted on 20.1.02 1054.10
Reposted on: 20.1.09 1124.18
<{quotehead]Originally posted by Chris Protege
2- The only straight match in the entire top 10 was the women's match. Everything else was a gimmick match or had screwjob endings.

The RAW tag ended in a screwjob?

A Bra and Panties match isn't a gimmick match? Wait, was it a B&P match or a Lingerie match or what? I never saw it. Either way, cavorting half-naked women=Gimmick.





The sledgehammer was used in the tag match, so that's a screwjob, and while the Lingerie match may have been a gimmick, it was wrestled completely as a normal match as far as how it's won or lost, with the only funny business being the little whip which wasn't used to inflict damage or be involved with the finish...



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Quezzy
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#9 Posted on 20.1.02 1247.53
Reposted on: 20.1.09 1314.04
You know I had actually noticed the same thing about that one person's post but didn't respond for some reason. Which is odd since i'm usually a jackass whenever someone makes a mistake.



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THAT IS AWESOME!
SeVen ™
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#10 Posted on 20.1.02 1326.42
Reposted on: 20.1.09 1327.29
Well, I'm sure I don't have to point out how wishing a severe crippling injury on someone is really fucking uncool. I do however agree with JasonMF. If someone HAS to get crippled, I wouldn't mind if it was Shane.









(but secretly I wish it was Bossman)





(edited by SeVen on 20.1.02 1131)
HitTheSnoozeButton
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#11 Posted on 20.1.02 1450.52
Reposted on: 20.1.09 1547.24
Hey whoever said benoit/austin on Smackdown was match of the year was right on. That match was a notch above anything else this year.



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#12 Posted on 20.1.02 2215.15
Reposted on: 20.1.09 2311.34
Anyway, the best WWF match of the year didn't make the ballot, at any rate. Benoit vs. Austin 5/31 on Smackdown was nearly 20 minutes, and it ruled. Even the Vince-related ending made sense.

Definitely MOTY right there...but you got the endings mixed up. It was Austin-Benoit on 5/28 that featured the repeat of the Montreal Screwjob. Benoit got a rematch on the 5/31 Smackdown. This time Austin reversed a rollup and grabbed onto the second rope to get the pin.



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