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28.11.07 1929
The 7 - Baseball - Your Yankee Housecleaning Thread! Register and log in to post!
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drjayphd
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#1 Posted on 8.10.06 0117.21
Reposted on: 8.10.13 0119.51
So sez the NY Daily News. (sports.espn.go.com)

    Originally posted by ESPN.com y wires
    Heads were likely to roll after the Yankees were eliminated from the postseason by the Tigers, but the opening odds were on Alex Rodriguez going first, not Joe Torre.

    According to the New York Daily News, however, the popular Yankees manager will be fired unless he decides to resign first to save face. Sources told the newspaper that former Yankees player and manager Lou Piniella will be owner George Steinbrenner's choice to replace Torre.


Last time I checked, no one gets fired at 2:16 AM, so there's a chance this won't happen, but if Torre gets replaced by Piniella, it's a HUGE mistake for the Yankees. They want to get rid of the loser's lurgy, it'd do them well to get rid of A-Rod instead.
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#2 Posted on 8.10.06 0155.53
Reposted on: 8.10.13 0156.45
Personally I think it would do them good to get rid of Sheffield and Giambi too. I've never thought Giambi was a very good fit there and Sheff is just an ass. I think a Damon, Jeter, Cano, Matsui, Posada, Abreu team with some other role players would be just as good. I'd also get rid of Randy if possible, but I don't know if that's feasable.

So who exactly are the candidates in the A-Rod sweepstakes? I can't imagine many people have the money to pay his contract AND the players to get the trade done.
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#3 Posted on 8.10.06 0606.21
Reposted on: 8.10.13 0607.11
If they want to dump Torre, that's fine. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees' streak of AL East titles end next year. If Furious George wants to fire the best manager he's had in decades, that'll be his mistake. But the more logical move would be to fire the hitting coach, because the Yankee bats (outside of Jeter) just fell silent during the ALDS.

Oh, and there's that little thing called "pitching". Your team won't be winning many postseason games with an over-the-hill Randy Johnson and a worthless Jaret Wright. They need to start fresh and build the rotation around Wang, not go after the senior circuit.

As for who would have the money or players to take A-Rod off New York's hands? Rumor out here has it that the Angels would be willing to talk...
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#4 Posted on 8.10.06 0629.09
Reposted on: 8.10.13 0630.03
Texas is still paying a good chunk of A-Rod's salary. Allegedly, the Yankees are only paying him $16 million per year - a steal of a deal, even though he's not Superman. So other teams WILL call and inquire. It remains to be seen if he'll waive his no-trade clause, which he's repeatedly said he won't.

On the way out the door:
-A-Rod, Sheffield, Wright, Pavano, Wilson, Lidle, Myers, Dotel, Bernie. And possibly Mussina, who is worth keeping around for no more than another 2 years.

IMHO, Randy AND Posada should also be sent packing before it's too late. But who replaces Posada? There aren't many interesting options via free agency this winter. So he'll likely be re-signed.

Moving toward a younger squad is the obvious answer, but based on past moves, I would NOT be surprised to see them enter the "chase" for Bonds as a DH.

Soriano, Buerhle, DeRosa, Meche, Schmidt, Zito, Pierre, and Huff are all guys I expect to see them go after as free agents. Aramis Ramirez could potentially become a free agent as well.
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#5 Posted on 8.10.06 0844.59
Reposted on: 8.10.13 0845.34
    Originally posted by chill
    Texas is still paying a good chunk of A-Rod's salary. Allegedly, the Yankees are only paying him $16 million per year - a steal of a deal, even though he's not Superman. So other teams WILL call and inquire. It remains to be seen if he'll waive his no-trade clause, which he's repeatedly said he won't.

    On the way out the door:
    -A-Rod, Sheffield, Wright, Pavano, Wilson, Lidle, Myers, Dotel, Bernie. And possibly Mussina, who is worth keeping around for no more than another 2 years.

    IMHO, Randy AND Posada should also be sent packing before it's too late. But who replaces Posada? There aren't many interesting options via free agency this winter. So he'll likely be re-signed.

    Moving toward a younger squad is the obvious answer, but based on past moves, I would NOT be surprised to see them enter the "chase" for Bonds as a DH.

    Soriano, Buerhle, DeRosa, Meche, Schmidt, Zito, Pierre, and Huff are all guys I expect to see them go after as free agents. Aramis Ramirez could potentially become a free agent as well.





Myers has another year on his contract, so he'll be back. They picked up Dotel more for '07 than '06, so he should return. If the Yankees find someone dumb enough to pick up the last 2 years at around $20 million on Pavano's contract then they are miracle workers. Johnson will be back because they extended him a year when they traded for him. Posada's 10-5, so they can't move him without his consent. Mussina has a club option for '07 at $17.5 million. They probably pick it up because they need to add at least 1 starting pitcher now, without him it would be 2.
Sheffield's gone, and the Red Sox better not even think about bringing that piece of filth to Fenway.
Now, if Pinella replaces Torre, then the dynamic on the team changes immensely. It will no longer be the Torre/Jeter Yankees, it will be the Pinella/A-Rod Yankees. Pinella has no loyalty to Jeter and he helped develop A-Rod. That means A-Rod would be even less likely to waive his no-trade clause. If the status quo were to occur in Yankee land, I could see A-Rod as a Cub or a Dodger.
Just as long as the hitting coach remains in uniform then all is well.
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#6 Posted on 8.10.06 1037.34
Reposted on: 8.10.13 1039.12
    Originally posted by redsoxnation

Sheffield's gone, and the Red Sox better not even think about bringing that piece of filth to Fenway.
Now, if Pinella replaces Torre, then the dynamic on the team changes immensely. It will no longer be the Torre/Jeter Yankees, it will be the Pinella/A-Rod Yankees. Pinella has no loyalty to Jeter and he helped develop A-Rod. That means A-Rod would be even less likely to waive his no-trade clause. If the status quo were to occur in Yankee land, I could see A-Rod as a Cub or a Dodger.
Just as long as the hitting coach remains in uniform then all is well.


Can't see why the Red Sox are so enamoured with Sheff either. When healthy, he's better than average. But Willy Mo is a better option in the outfield right now than Sheff.

Aside from Santana, I don't know who the Angels would offer for A-Rod. I certainly can do without Chone Figgins or Dallas McPherson coming to the Yankees, as much as I once liked Figgins 4 years ago. The smart move would be to trade him to the Dodgers and get a package of Betemit, Kuo, and Loney.

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#7 Posted on 8.10.06 1656.17
Reposted on: 8.10.13 1657.58
If the Red Sox were to pick up Sheffield, it would almost certainly mean that they either move Manny and Sheff plays left; or they move Lowell, Youkilis plays third and either Ortiz plays first and Sheff's the DH or vice-versa. Both would be awful, atrocious, awful, ridiculous, awful, stupid, AWFUL moves. Thus, I expect management to make one of them, but only after throwing tons of money at Barry Zito.
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#8 Posted on 8.10.06 1811.53
Reposted on: 8.10.13 1813.25
Did I miss Girardi signing somewhere? If he could get a near 500 season in Florida, he should be a lock for 90 wins in New York.

Keek Mussina around, he's old, but he's productive. Johnson is there until he retires, which should be soon, the way he played in the post season.

A-rod may not have had MVP numbers this season, but he's still among the elite in the game, you dont let him walk unless it involves a #1 starter in the deal.

Sad day for the Yankee fans, but the Tigers' pitching owned them in every imaginable way.

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#9 Posted on 8.10.06 1914.36
Reposted on: 8.10.13 1915.48
Giving Torre the axe is the worst thing Steinbrenner could do. 10 straight postseason appearances is nothing to scoff at. Granted, the line-up has been a bit of a who's who the past few years, but keep Joe.

Infield:

Jeter and Cano stay put. Let Giambi stick around at 1st rather than play merry-go-round with the sluggers you have on the team. A-Rod can take a walk; 3rd should be covered by somebody who's a defensive standout given you (SHOULD) already have good run output from the rest of the team. Posada stays because A) he's a switch hitter and B) he's been consistent over the years, which is more than could be said for A-Rod, and to a lesser extent the aged Bernie Williams.

Outfield:

Matsui, Damon, Abreu. How difficult can that be? Sheffield is still a hell of a player, but I don't see why you should keep him in the club if he's going to go to waste as a DH. You can easily trade him and A-Rod for some help in the bullpen, possibly in the form of a Zito.

Pitching:

Needs a lot of work. Keep Wang and Mussina. Neither are strike out kings, but they keep the ball on the ground with their style of pitching, letting Jeter and Cano make the plays. Randy's going to stick around, and if he's able to come back from an injury plagued season all the better. Relievers need to be seriously looked into; Rivera's the only guy that can get the job done.

In short, you trade Sheffield and A-Rod for some names in the bullpen and a solid 3rd baseman with some defensive acclaim, like a Joe Crede or Garrett Atkins.
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#10 Posted on 10.10.06 0543.50
Reposted on: 10.10.13 0544.08
I am another Yankee fan of the "pro-Torre" mindset. Considering all the injuries in his line up that he dealt with, I think he did a heck of a job. That being said, this quote from Sheff irked me a bit. He's the first player I've seen to speak out this way about Torre thus far. The original article can be found here. (sports.espn.go.com)

    Originally posted by ESPN.com
    Gary Sheffield told USA Today that Joe Torre's decision to bat Alex Rodriguez eighth in Game 4 ended up dooming the Yankees.

    "I think that affected the morale and psyche of the entire team, not just A-Rod," Sheffield told the newspaper. "I'm not making any excuses, but everyone was wondering what was going on. It made it a real weird day. You would like to be treated with a little respect, I don't care who you play for."

    Sheffield felt the move helped Detroit.

    "[Tigers manager] Jim Leyland took advantage of that. He can make you believe anything. He can put a fire under your belt like you never had before in your life.

    "Not to make excuses, but we didn't have that."
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#11 Posted on 10.10.06 1049.07
Reposted on: 10.10.13 1049.14
I am on the fence with Torre. This was a great season for the Yankees, although a horrible post-season. The Tigers were fantastic, and Kenny Rogers was just plain fantastic. Those were five words that I never thought I'd sting together in such a fashion. This was Joe's 11th season in NY. Who would have honestly thought back in 1996 that any manager, much less Joe Torre, would have lasted so long in the Bronx? Not me, or all of the NY newspapers that plastered the anti-Torre headlines back then. Maybe its time to change managers. My opinion is that batting Rodriguez eighth was a lack of respect in game four. Joe could have easily batted anyone in that spot. Cano got one hit all series. Sheffield was equally bad. Chances are, I will be happy if he is back, and I will be happy if he's not. I don't think Pinella is the answer, though, and I would be hard pressed to root for a guy like Larry Bowa.

As much as I've shown the Jeter love, I think he totally left Rodriguez out to dry. I remember what Rodriguez said about him in the GQ article way back when, but it would have helped everyone if Jeter had embraced him, and acted like a leader, like one would think a Yankees captain would. If Jeter cannot change this, then there is a problem. If the Yanks deal Rodriguez, they should get something decent back for him, since Texas is still paying $9 mil/year. Sheffield is done, hopefully off to somewhere else where I can resume rooting against him. They'll probably buy out the last year on Wright's deal, the joke that bringing him in was. Pavano...well, maybe he'll pitch next year - no one would touch him anyway with $20 mil coming and the Yanks would have to pay enough of that to probably make it worth it to see what he's got. Lidle is VERY gone - if you have Real Audio, check out this clip of him calling in to Mike and the Mad Dog (wfan.com) to defend himself. Lidle sure does have a habit of getting misquoted! Mr. Happy (Mussina) might be back. I am sure that the Yanks will be in the running for Matsusaka, but there might be someone in the organization who remembers the name Hideki Irabu...

I am actually looking forward to NY/STL and OAK/DET - two really good looking games.
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#12 Posted on 10.10.06 1118.14
Reposted on: 10.10.13 1120.20
The paper of record (heh) says Torre's safe (nypost.com).

Works for me. I can't see anyone else able to handle the egos the way Torre has been able to.

Maybe I'm doing it just to be contrarian, but I won't throw A-Rod under the bus. Sheffield, I will gladly throw under the bus, then get in the bus and back it over him to make sure he won't be a problem anymore.

If we're stuck with Pavano, then I think we should get Alyssa Milano too.

Matsui, Damon and Abreu, with Melky around to give them a day off and keep people fresh. I can take or leave A-Rod, but if someone else wants him, here's hoping they'll give up obscene amounts of pitching to get him.

How fast can Phillip Hughes be ready?

(Edited for ugly formatting)

(edited by Brian P. Dermody on 10.10.06 1221)
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#13 Posted on 10.10.06 1353.00
Reposted on: 10.10.13 1353.58
The more I think about the events of the past few days leading up to Steinbrenner deciding to keep Torre, the more I think Joe Torre should just walk out.

Honestly, how many times in the last five years have we seen this sequence unfold:

1. Yankees have best season ever and win AL East.
2. Yankees favored to win World Series.
3. Yankees make early exit from the playoffs.
4. George Steinbrenner erupts.
5. Joe Torre in line to be fired.

It's especially bad this year, because the Yankees losing was NOT Torre's fault. He was unfairly blamed for the failings of the pitching staff. Why would Torre want to subject himself to this exact same treatment next year if the Yankees don't win again?
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#14 Posted on 10.10.06 2036.24
Reposted on: 10.10.13 2038.46
A: He's a masochist?
B: In spite of the roster, he knows Steinbrenner needs him as the manager, simply because no one can handle the egos.

Can't blame Torre if he would resign, but he did say this was his dream job when they hired him, yes? Still, if the Yankees want to get where they think is their birthright, Steinbrenner and Cashman need to get pitching -- not just arms in general, but the right pitchers. Namely, ones who aren't extremely likely to suck before you sign them (hiya, Pavano!) or products of a different system more than their own ability (yes, we're looking at you, Jaret Wright).
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#15 Posted on 11.10.06 1208.55
Reposted on: 11.10.13 1209.00
Keep the offense as is.
1B - Giambi
2B - Cano
SS - Jeter
3B - Rodriguez
C - Posada
OF - Damon
OF - Abreu
OF - Matsui
DH - Cabrera/Free Agent

Really, do you think there is a betterlineup top to bottom in all of baseball than this? This iffense wills core runs and runs by the ton.

it is pitching, period, they need to change. When the yankees were dominant, it was pitching that carried them. They have spotty starters, a weak pen and the only strength is Rivera.

They will make a splash in FA and sign Zito. They will over pay for him because they do not want him going to the Mets or Red Sox.

#1 SP - Zito
#2 SP - Wang
#3 SP - Mussina
#4 SP - Johnson
#5 SP - Hughes

Not a bad starting five. Randy Johnson as a #4 is where he should be now to be effective.

Closer - Rivera. He is a lock.

Relievers - This is the biggest problem area of the staff. Dotel, if healthy, should be a good bridge to Rivera working the 8th only. But they need to go out and get some lefty mid relief and players with a some guts that can play and thrive in NY. They do not need big name big contract players, just guys who want to be on the big stage and win.

There is no reason that with a line up like this and with the staff with Zito, Wang and Mussina as a 1-2-3 that they should not win the East and be a favorite for the WS. It would be fitting for a guy like Torre to win the WS and walk away on top and being the only manager to conquer Steingrabber, NY and the Yankees. Even as a Met fan, I am pulling fo rhim to go out on top. Just not at the MEts expense!
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#16 Posted on 11.10.06 1701.47
Reposted on: 11.10.13 1703.21
    Originally posted by Wpob
    Really, do you think there is a betterlineup top to bottom in all of baseball than this? This iffense wills core runs and runs by the ton.
    Relievers - This is the biggest problem area of the staff. Dotel, if healthy, should be a good bridge to Rivera working the 8th only.


Everyone was saying how great the lineup was before they got thumped by the Tigers. The fact they hardly scored in 3 games exposed them. They HAVE to make changes, if for no other reason than they are the Yankees. They could go 162-0 and lose the World Series 4-3 and still HAVE to make changes.

If Dotel is the bullpen answer, I don't want to know the question. He hasn't been healthy for the last 2 seasons and has been regressing since he left Houston.
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#17 Posted on 11.10.06 1905.44
Reposted on: 11.10.13 1906.25
Dotel was signed because there was potential, and he was relatively cheap for a guy with as much of an upside as him. That said, no matter what they're paying him, he's a bust and a benchwarmer.

The problem is simple: there's no chemistry.

A complete overhaul is needed at this point. The Yankees won in the late 90s because they had more chemistry than any other team. Names like Brosius, O'Neill, Jeter, Posada, Martinez, Rivera, Pettite, and Bernie were all synonymous with YANKEES. Brosius came from the A's, but he was an important team player who fit the bill. Most were home-grown, and all were accepted by the fans as legit Yankees. If anything, they need a return to team chemistry, not superstar individuals.
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#18 Posted on 11.10.06 1924.08
Reposted on: 11.10.13 1924.19
    Originally posted by chill
    Dotel was signed because there was potential, and he was relatively cheap for a guy with as much of an upside as him. That said, no matter what they're paying him, he's a bust and a benchwarmer.

    The problem is simple: there's no chemistry.

    A complete overhaul is needed at this point. The Yankees won in the late 90s because they had more chemistry than any other team. Names like Brosius, O'Neill, Jeter, Posada, Martinez, Rivera, Pettite, and Bernie were all synonymous with YANKEES. Brosius came from the A's, but he was an important team player who fit the bill. Most were home-grown, and all were accepted by the fans as legit Yankees. If anything, they need a return to team chemistry, not superstar individuals.






O'Neill wasn't homegrown, he came over for Roberto Kelly in a vastly unpopular trade at the time.
Now, the belief has become that there aren't enough Real Yankees, the chemistry is bad etc. This is the biggest difference: The Yankees of the 90's played a 6 inning game. The starters were good enough to either keep them ahead or close. Then the would go to Mendoza, Stanton, Nelson to get to Rivera. If you were beat after 6, you were dead. If you were ahead, you usually didn't have a good enough bullpen to hold the lead. Indians bullpen never came through in big spots, Orioles bullpen was legendary for leaking, and the Red Sox in '99 had a shot Rod Beck closing because Tom Gordon was hurt and Tim Wakefield was left off the playoff roster. And, we won't even get into the Braves bullpen of the late 90's and the disaster that was.
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#19 Posted on 11.10.06 1951.25
Reposted on: 11.10.13 1952.31
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by chill
      Dotel was signed because there was potential, and he was relatively cheap for a guy with as much of an upside as him. That said, no matter what they're paying him, he's a bust and a benchwarmer.

      The problem is simple: there's no chemistry.

      A complete overhaul is needed at this point. The Yankees won in the late 90s because they had more chemistry than any other team. Names like Brosius, O'Neill, Jeter, Posada, Martinez, Rivera, Pettite, and Bernie were all synonymous with YANKEES. Brosius came from the A's, but he was an important team player who fit the bill. Most were home-grown, and all were accepted by the fans as legit Yankees. If anything, they need a return to team chemistry, not superstar individuals.






    O'Neill wasn't homegrown, he came over for Roberto Kelly in a vastly unpopular trade at the time.


Also, Scott Brosius may be a "true Yankee", but he wasn't even on the Yankees' '96 championship team because he hadn't finished spending his six years in Oakland (he was traded for Kenny Rogers '97), and Tino Martinez wasn't home-grown, the Mariners traded him with Jeff Nelson for Sterling Hitchcock and Russ Davis.

They really need to start getting guys who are about to be really good, and stop going solely after guys who they are paying because they've been good.
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#20 Posted on 11.10.06 2110.36
Reposted on: 11.10.13 2110.36
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by chill
      Dotel was signed because there was potential, and he was relatively cheap for a guy with as much of an upside as him. That said, no matter what they're paying him, he's a bust and a benchwarmer.

      The problem is simple: there's no chemistry.

      A complete overhaul is needed at this point. The Yankees won in the late 90s because they had more chemistry than any other team. Names like Brosius, O'Neill, Jeter, Posada, Martinez, Rivera, Pettite, and Bernie were all synonymous with YANKEES. Brosius came from the A's, but he was an important team player who fit the bill. Most were home-grown, and all were accepted by the fans as legit Yankees. If anything, they need a return to team chemistry, not superstar individuals.


    O'Neill wasn't homegrown, he came over for Roberto Kelly in a vastly unpopular trade at the time.
    Now, the belief has become that there aren't enough Real Yankees, the chemistry is bad etc. This is the biggest difference: The Yankees of the 90's played a 6 inning game. The starters were good enough to either keep them ahead or close. Then the would go to Mendoza, Stanton, Nelson to get to Rivera. If you were beat after 6, you were dead. If you were ahead, you usually didn't have a good enough bullpen to hold the lead. Indians bullpen never came through in big spots, Orioles bullpen was legendary for leaking, and the Red Sox in '99 had a shot Rod Beck closing because Tom Gordon was hurt and Tim Wakefield was left off the playoff roster. And, we won't even get into the Braves bullpen of the late 90's and the disaster that was.


Thanks, I realize O'Neill came from the Reds. Hence me saying "most" were homegrown during those years... O'Neill was one of the prime examples of an import who became accepted as a true Yankee.

And Tino BECAME better than average when he joined the Yankees. He was still pretty young when he left the Mariners. He came up with several clutch hits in the playoffs for them. Same with Brosius who had a couple game-winning homers in the playoffs during his stay in New York. In fact, Brosius was Mr. October more times than not - always dependable.

But you make a good point about their bullpen - it was untouchable. Mendoza usually had a high K/IP ratio and a low ERA. Few bullpens have been better. But bullpen issues aside, the Yankees just don't have the character they had back then. The Yankees of the late 90s were famous for their 9th innning comebacks.

But then the free agent frenzy began, along with the trading deadline deals (ie. Knoblauch for Milton, Guzman, & two minor leaguers), which spelled the end to team chemistry. I allege the Knoblauch trade was the beginning of the end. He had a couple good seasons with NY before becoming one of the biggest busts in history - unable to play in the field at ANY position without committing constant errors.

The Yankees of today can hit a lot, score a lot, and win a lot. But they are not very different from your typical All-Star team. On paper, they're great. But when the times get tough in a game, they don't pull together all that well. And when they do, it's almost always Jeter or Cano who's responsible - and Damon on a few occasions this season.


(edited by chill on 11.10.06 2117)
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