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The 7 - Movies & TV - Doctor Who Season 2 on Sci-Fi -- 9/29
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RKMtwin
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#1 Posted on 30.9.06 1836.54
Reposted on: 30.9.13 1838.53
I figured since no thread had been posted about Doctor Who's second season premiering on Sci-Fi this past Friday, there should be one! Because both 'The Christmas Invasion' and 'New Earth' were excellent episodes.

For the majority of us here in the US, this is our ushering into the David Tennant era. And being a long-time Who fan/maniac, I'm sanguine in my belief that the newest Doctor will be, in a word, "Fantastic!"

Billie Piper continues to amaze me with her performances. She has so much conviction placed into the role of Rose Tyler, and it pays off very well in "New Earth" when her personality is overtaken by Cassandra's. No Cockney accent, no slang, she talks and acts like a completely different person. Just wonderful stuff all around in regards to these two episodes.

I'm sure I'll plug in my thoughts at length further on as the thread develops, but lemme stop talking now. Whovians, let us discuss!

(CRZ-- Do you think you could bring back the Doctor Who thread icon, or regenerate it, so to speak? Thank you very much.)

edit: CRZ rocks! (Our 'Who' icon's back!) Thanks again. :)

(edited by RKMtwin on 30.9.06 2259)
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Davros
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#2 Posted on 1.10.06 1714.08
Reposted on: 1.10.13 1714.28
I can only second what you said about the new season thus far. Tremendous acting, side splitting humor and damn near tear jerking drama. Seriously, what American show can do that in one hour?

One of the things I definitely like about the new Doctor, is that he's got a sinister side to him. The modulating of his voice when he explains what kind of a person he is, to telling Harriet Jones about bringing her down, very creepy.

It's nice to see a good guy have a dark side without being the brooding- I'm a bad ass 5 o'clock shadow and scruffy clothes.

And a couple more things- I had no IDEA Billie Piper was packing that much back and chest- SHASTA!

And also, with the quick glimpses we got of the werewolves in the upcoming episode- I cannot wait to see what else the "second" season of Doctor Who has cooked up in the visual effects department.
JALman
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#3 Posted on 1.10.06 2134.40
Reposted on: 1.10.13 2135.04
I don't much to say about "Invasion" and "Earth" so far except it's a good start.


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read

I read something about RTD changing the ending of New Earth to a darker coda where the sick patients died via someone at the Outpost Gallifrey forums. I don't have access to any Doctor Who magazine so I can't confirm whether RTD really did change the ending. However, if it's true then the happy ending we ultimately get takes some steam out of "New Earth."


Doesn't mean I was less satisfied with the look Tennant gave at Cassandra/Chip at the end.

    Originally posted by Davros
    And also, with the quick glimpses we got of the werewolves in the upcoming episode- I cannot wait to see what else the "second" season of Doctor Who has cooked up in the visual effects department.



If there were werewolves in "Tooth and Claw," RTD would've complained about the budget being blown. You will see monks, though. ;-)

BTW, if anyone hasn't done so, there are MP3 commentaries on the BBC Who site you can download and listen to. The commentary to "Claw" is probably one of my favorites. I don't have the URL on me, but if you view an older Who thread there might be one there.

Did I mention that "Tooth and Claw" is one of my favorite episodes of Who?

EDIT: Spolierizing

(edited by JALman on 1.10.06 2244)
RKMtwin
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#4 Posted on 4.10.06 1326.25
Reposted on: 4.10.13 1329.01
After I hung out with Davros and Ms. Davros to watch the opening of the new season, I went home and was compelled to watch the immediate replay and did so. There's one thing about the new 'Who' that makes it very unique from its previous regeneration-- every episode has poignant moments that hit you right on top of the head without being preachy, and won't let go until the viewer can appreciate the gravity of the situation at hand.

It's not to say that the original series didn't have a didactic nature to it, because it certainly did ('Genesis of the Daleks' is the best example), but since each story was broken down into several episodes and thus, each season was a lot longer than those of the new series, a lot of original 'Who' series episodes were able to be virtually all-out action romps with science fiction as the base premise. The Russell T. Davies era of Doctor Who is, in my opinion, science fiction not only at its core, it's true sci-fi through and through.

Moreover, there's a very strong empathetic nature to the show that the original 'Who' rarely displayed. The thing I love about RTD 'Who' is that the series isn't afraid to compel one to tears. How could one not be moved by the last scene in 'New Earth?' It is genuinely touching, and is one of those classic 'Who' moments that, like we've seen in 'Dalek,' 'Father's Day,' and 'The Doctor Dances,' endures in your being well after watching the episode.

I believe science fiction is a genre which makes one confront, contemplate, and ultimately cherish mortality, reality and other various what-ifs of the human condition. 'Doctor Who' in the past did this well. 'Doctor Who' now does it with EXCELLENCE.
JALman
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#5 Posted on 10.10.06 1651.44
Reposted on: 10.10.13 1652.10
    Originally posted by RKMtwin
    The thing I love about RTD 'Who' is that the series isn't afraid to compel one to tears. How could one not be moved by the last scene in 'New Earth?' It is genuinely touching, and is one of those classic 'Who' moments that, like we've seen in 'Dalek,' 'Father's Day,' and 'The Doctor Dances,' endures in your being well after watching the episode.


Yup. The next month of shows, should they not be pre-empted, really kicks Who into high gear. Everyone is on their game as episodes two through six probably makes for the best run of the new series. I really like to divulge details but it would get spoilery. However, here's the Doctor's itinerary:

School Reunion: catch up with old friends.
Girl in the Fireplace: Madame du Pompadour
Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel: you-know-what
Idiot's Lantern: Queen Elizabeth II's coronation

Maybe if RTD didn't try to "Bad Wolf" the Torchwood Institute so much, buuuuuuuut that's another matter :D

(edited by JALman on 10.10.06 1758)
RKMtwin
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#6 Posted on 10.10.06 1925.31
Reposted on: 10.10.13 1925.32
I loved the most recent Who ep with Queen Victoria and the WEREWOLF~! That story had horror the likes of which us Who fans probably haven't seen since "The Horror of Fang Rock" from the original series. The music was great, the acting was great, heck, the whole mise en scene, if you will, was great.

I've probably already mentioned this in a previous 'Doctor WHO' thread, but I can't wait for 'School Reunion!' Sarah Jane Smith is my favorite companion, and the fact that, of all previous (human) companions, RTD considered her before anyone else really does demonstrate his passion for the series. She bridged the Pertwee and Tom Baker eras. She's the longest serving companion of the Doctor, and she's gorgeous!

At any rate, David Tennant continues to impress me. Three episodes into his tenure, and he's ALREADY put an indelible stamp on the Doctor. He is so unlike any of the previous regenerations and yet, has that undeniably Doctorish aura about him. And one can see shades of the other Doctors in him. He is, IMO, way better than Peter Davison and SOOOO much better than Paul McGann, to whom I refer to facetiously as the Tommy Rich of Doctor Who (tell me that ain't the case!). >

The idea that Torchwood is this long-existing entity is weird, but I imagine it'll be fleshed out satisfactorily during the Who spin-off itself. So I'm pretty okay with it. It just makes me curious how Torchwood's existence could be explained in regards to the original series. (Perhaps, for example, from the Third Doctor story, "Ambassadors of Death," General Corrington was actually a Torchwood operative or something, but that reeks of fantasy booking, so I'll stop there.)

I recommend to all the other W's out there to give Doctor Who a go if you already haven't, because as JALman has already mentioned, the best is yet to come...
Davros
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#7 Posted on 10.10.06 2225.03
Reposted on: 10.10.13 2225.16
"...Third Doctor story, "Ambassadors of Death," General Corrington was actually a Torchwood operative or something, but that reeks of fantasy booking, so I'll stop there..."

That's interesting you would say that. There are a ton of instances in the earlier seasons where UNIT personnel were doing UNIT type things, but were they necesarilly members of the organization.

For instance, in the third Doctor story "The Claws of Axos", American agent Bill Filer was chasing The Master in Washington D.C. How? How the fuck does he know who the Master is if UNIT is completely classified, and Filer isn't in the military?
And in another third Doctor story "Planet of Spiders" (Third Doc's regeneration story), Mike Yates was undercover investigationg the Metabelis Crystal theft and ended up joining a cult. But Yates was booted out of UNIT several shows before that. (For the benefit of people that haven't wathced the old school shows, these are two of the best that you should watch.)

We'll see what happens with Torchwood. I'm expecting they'll do something cool with the continuity of stories in this season like they did in the last. I'm also now very curious to see what the premise of the Torchwood series is going to be.

Thanks!
CRZ
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#8 Posted on 13.10.06 1236.33
Reposted on: 13.10.13 1237.28
Never to early to pre-order (The W at Amazon)!
odessasteps
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#9 Posted on 13.10.06 2200.50
Reposted on: 13.10.13 2200.54

I liked Sarah Jane more this week than I ever did when she was a companion with Pertwee or Tom Baker.
JALman
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#10 Posted on 14.10.06 0025.05
Reposted on: 14.10.13 0026.02
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    I liked Sarah Jane more this week than I ever did when she was a companion with Pertwee or Tom Baker.

Keep in mind that I'd have to watch School Reunion again but:

My favorite Sarah Jane moment: heelishly apprehending the Doctor in Time Warrior part one. A companion who looked like your typical young female Doctor follower who is slightly distrustful of the Doctor could've been interesting for a few adventures.

Take note of the quote she tells TenDoc to snap out of his darker desires. The Headmaster is a charismatic fellow, after all. RTD is utilizing symmetrical storytelling (for lack of a better phrase).

And Mickey...hey Mickey! He's going to be the MVP of Series Two.

(edited by JALman on 14.10.06 0131)
RKMtwin
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#11 Posted on 14.10.06 0240.48
Reposted on: 14.10.13 0243.43
As far as 'School Reunion' goes, Russell T. and company does it again! (Mind you, there might be a bit of spoilage for some who may have not seen the episode yet, but dang it, it aired tonight on Sci-Fi... twice! Just wanted to forewarn some of you.)

I think the character of Sarah Jane Smith was given a proper return and (presumably) send-off, and I'm glad that things weren't overplayed between her and the Doctor. Whatever closeness they did have remained implied, and it works that way. It maintains a certain mystique and degree of ambiguity about the relationships the Doctor has with his female companions (and especially Sarah Jane's) that leaves 'WHO' fans still guessing. It's a great 'what-if' that tends to tease us all a little bit!

I think it would have otherwise been a mistake for story writer Toby Whithouse to extrapolate far more from what we viewers actually saw and knew of the Doctor and Sarah's time together... but we were given enough. Enough to know that the Doctor and Sarah's connection was a very deep one indeed. David Tennant once again does an EXCELLENT job in portraying the Doctor in this episode, as the Doctor is damn near emotionally overtaken when he sees Sarah Jane again. Yet, Tennant plays it so well-- it's not over the top nor is it underplayed. It's like baby bear's porridge so to speak-- just right.

And the end of the episode? "Goodbye... My Sarah Jane!" Followed by the Doctor's big hug and the two's departing gaze. Brilliant brilliant brilliant. Once again, a wonderful 'WHO' moment.

K-9 is finally given his due as a true hero and companion of the Doctor's-- something that was almost utterly stripped away from the robotic dog in the John Nathan Turner era. This is yet another reason why I love RTD Doctor WHO. K-9 hasn't kicked that much ass since 'The Pirate Planet,' and in this particular story, it is shown that indeed, K-9 is not just a programmed tin box that resembles a dog. HE'S K-9!!!

Rose is placed in the background just enough in this episode to highlight the Doctor and Sarah, and it definitely suggests that Rose's relationship with the Doctor might not be as certain as she thought it to be. One can't help but feel for Rose Tyler, because she makes it very apparent to the Doctor that she's, well, in love with him. To boot, Mickey joins the TARDIS crew much to Rose's chagrin. Talk about being put in between a rock and a hard place! The rest of this season will be more intriguing based on this dynamic alone. I can't wait.

One can't help but wonder if, at some point in the future, the Doctor doesn't bite the bullet, say "Screw it," and end up doing something irrevocably wrong in order to right things the way HE sees fit. If not for Sarah telling the Doctor to not take heed to the Headmaster's words, just what would the Doctor have done? TenDoc's got more gray shaded into him than Sylvester McCoy's Doctor by far, and that says A LOT. What will be the culmination of this Doctor's character? I guess the only was to see is to continue to tune in.

Lastly, when I can get the dough together for it, I'm hittin' that link CRZ provided above to get the Season 2 DVD set. And to boot, it's cheaper than the Season One set's initial price. You definitely can't beat that!

Sorry for being so long-winded!

Davros
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#12 Posted on 14.10.06 0733.39
Reposted on: 14.10.13 0733.46
What was also truly awesome about "School Reunion" is Sarah Jane and the Doctor had the exact conversation you'd expect them to have. It was interesting the Doctor didn't tell Sarah about the Time War. We can infer that the Doctor told her about his life on Gallifrey, his family, his friends. Telling her would break her heart even more than it was. BTW, did you cath the hurt in her eyes and that immediate feeling of sorrow she had when the Doctor told her he regenerated a half dozen times since they were last together?

Also too, Elisabeth Sladen is such an immense and wonderful actress. She never overplayed her part. When she was on screen, she almost had this grandiose feel about her. I had to constantly remind myself that "OMG, I'm watching Doctor Who in 2006- and Sarah Jane Smith is on my TV!" She gave us her classic quips and classic "I'm in control" scream, and her girl talk with Rose was a great moment for all Whovians, new and old. And is it true Sladen is 70 or so? She looked fucking incredible.

David Tennant- what can I say? Four episodes in and damn me if I say so, but he just may be the definitive article. He's got the intensity, the childish charm and a grasp on humor possessed by the legendary Pythons. His reaction after seeing Sarah Jane was like one when you first talk to that girl on the other end of te hallway that you've always wanted to get with- and she feels the same way.

Sorry bro, and bros, but I didn't have a dry eye at the end of this one.

BTW-thanks CRZ for allowing us to keep this thread going. I'll be seconding what my brother said about ordering from the Dub on Amazon.

(edited by Davros on 14.10.06 0636)
odessasteps
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#13 Posted on 14.10.06 0909.42
Reposted on: 14.10.13 0911.47
58.

from imdb:

Elisabeth Sladen was born in 1 February 1948 in Liverpool, England.

And there's going to be a Sarah Jane spinoff? The Beeb really is milking the franchise these days, arent they?

(edited by odessasteps on 14.10.06 1011)
JALman
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#14 Posted on 14.10.06 1131.12
Reposted on: 14.10.13 1132.03
    Originally posted by odessasteps
    58.

    from imdb:

    Elisabeth Sladen was born in 1 February 1948 in Liverpool, England.

    And there's going to be a Sarah Jane spinoff? The Beeb really is milking the franchise these days, arent they?

    (edited by odessasteps on 14.10.06 1011)


Considering the relative dearth of Who from 1990-2004, I'd say BBC is cashing in big time. While we're in the midst of Who-mania, diehard Whovians have been on a steady diet of novels and audio plays so it's not exactly like the BBC has been sitting on the Who franchise until last year. There's also the TV movie, but that's another subject for another day.

I believe I typed this before, but Sladen knows Sarah Jane in her sleep. The Sarah Jane audio adventures likely helped her honed her character, but ultimately it's her caring about her character make Sarah Jane Smith memorable even without having to rely on her good friend Tom Baker. Also keep in mind that the upcoming K9 series is done outside the Beeb as this is developed by K9's creator.

(edited by JALman on 14.10.06 1232)
odessasteps
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#15 Posted on 27.10.06 2037.06
Reposted on: 27.10.13 2037.24

Yay. Cybermen. My Who nerd knowledge has faded over time. Did the old Cybermen ever get their origin told?

And since no one mentioned it last week (and I just wtached it on DVR), I really liked the Madame Pompadour episode. There should always be some pathos in the show.
RKMtwin
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#16 Posted on 27.10.06 2306.01
Reposted on: 27.10.13 2308.52
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    Yay. Cybermen. My Who nerd knowledge has faded over time. Did the old Cybermen ever get their origin told?

    And since no one mentioned it last week (and I just wtached it on DVR), I really liked the Madame Pompadour episode. There should always be some pathos in the show.


I was actually pondering starting another thread, but since we have a continuation of this one, sweet!

I love the new Cybermen! They're totally awesome and creepy! And I found it interesting that (for old-skool Whovians out there) the name of the front company for Cybus Industries, International Electromatics, was the actual name of the front company for the Cybermen in the second Doctor story, 'The Invasion.' Nice nod to continuity, Russell T. and company!

From what I remember, the old Cybermen (or Cybermen from our dimension, so to speak) came from a tenth planet in our solar system, Mondas. The planet's population evolved much like Earth's did, with a humanoid population and all.

Anyway... Somehow, Mondas spun out of its orbit, and Mondas' humanoid development took a turn for the worse when it was decided that, in order for the Mondasians (Mondans?) to survive, they had to sustain themselves by becoming cyborgs, and ultimately beings devoid of any human emotion. Driven by rage at their condition, the Mondasians eventually became the Cybermen.

Down the line, I believe, Mondas was destroyed. The Cybermen found a new planet, Telos, to cultivate their race and war machine, and waged war on humanity for ages afterwards (If I can find a link that much better explains the Cybermen's origin, I'll post it straight away).

'Rise of the Cybermen,' IMO, was classic 1970s Doctor WHO done better than classic 1970s Doctor WHO! While the RTD WHO series has taken the Doctor WHO mythos to an entirely new and higher level, this episode was an excellent throwback to a 70s style, Doctor Who-throwdown-romp (as next week's conclusion to this two-parter will no doubt provide).

Now, as I'm sure you can all tell, I'm a WHO maniac (like my brother). So of course I might sound a bit too enthusiastic at times, but as far as last week's episode, 'Girl in the Fireplace,' goes, what can possibly be said about this episode to give it justice?

UTTERLY terrific. EXCELLENTLY performed. The story was magnificent, and the very very end of the episode just brings it home like no other 'WHO' story. And for that matter, has there ever, EVER been a payoff to an episode of a TV show like the one we all saw last week? So simple yet so brilliant. Brilliant brilliant brilliant.

And how can one not feel bad for the Doctor at the end of that story? For the first time in a looooooong time, the Doctor is rendered utterly helpless. And I agree with odessasteps about the need for pathos to be ever-present in Doctor WHO. For some reason or another, it works so well with RTD WHO. This show makes one tear up almost as often as 'The Wonder Years!' I think that so far, 'Girl in the Fireplace' is THE best episode of the second season.

I've probably said it already in this thread, but I'll say it again in regards to tonight's ep., last week's ep., and this season as a whole thus far... Russell T. and company does it again.

JALman
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#17 Posted on 28.10.06 0143.54
Reposted on: 28.10.13 0144.04
The thread has regenerated revived, eh?

Fireplace was, IMO, a good example of Science Fiction. It didn't hurt that David Tennant's girlfriend was there to strengthen the chemistry. Watching it does consider what kind of future Our Hero will have, especially considering:


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
He'll accompanied by a bride this Christmas


Now if you're interested about the Eighth Doctor (*crickets chirp*), the fine folks at BBC7 is broadcasting his audio adventures (look about halfway down). I do like the interplay between he and his assistant Charley Pollard and that he is just what I'd imagine this incarnation would do after the events of the TV Movie.

The worst part of Series 2 is that I don't which two-parter is best; it'll be easy to pick the finale two-parter because of the magnitude of events that occur but I still like TenDoc's confrontation with the antagonist in the middle two-parter (i.e. Impossible Planet/Satan Pit).

My only letdown about this past episode was the writing lack a little depth; Graeme Harper's efforts returning to Who should be more heralded than Whats-her-face and her metal mutt. Harper's flashy directorial talents shine through the meek and disappointing script. I also like how he successfully makes the Cybermen appear to be a threatening, high quantity force . From reading reports, the budget only allowed for so many Cyberman costumes; the finished product rarely shows the limitations.

Speaking of pathos, I sure wish Torchwood starring Captain Jack had some. After watching the premiere doubleheader, I'm slightly disappointed, especially as he's ably assisted by Gweneth the Maid and That Hot Asian Doctor from Aliens of London.
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#18 Posted on 4.11.06 1306.21
Reposted on: 4.11.13 1309.20

I'm glad there was no sappy conversion of Pete Tyler at the end of AGE OF STEEL.

And I love when they write out companions by having them decide to stay on some new world and start a new life. Much better than when they just walk away (Tegan) or get booted.
Davros
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#19 Posted on 4.11.06 1736.25
Reposted on: 4.11.13 1736.45
Yeah- when Mickey stepped up and said he'd stay, I was fucking shocked. It's kinda funny how he says he doesn't want to be the "tin dog", but in reality, he was. He was the difference maker and he was brave. I liked the Mickey character a lot because he was sort of stupid and comedy relief. After this though, he has become one of my favorites of all the Doctor's companions.

What I alos appreciated about the Age of Steel, is that they didn't give us an hour episode where they had a bang up shoot out for six minutes and built the episode around it. Instead, we got a well thought through, well crafted story that IMO, helps give the Ctbermen their fright and respect back. I am not embarrassed as a Doctor Who fan anymore when I try to explain to people why the Cybermen are cool. And amazingly, so far- There's nothing in the new series yet that I can gig. Every story is tight and keeps me interested and excited for more.

I really didn't think at this juncture that I'd have liked Tennant's Doctor better than Eccleston's. But his performances continue to win me over and we're only halfway through this season.
JALman
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#20 Posted on 4.11.06 1837.30
Reposted on: 4.11.13 1838.16
    Originally posted by Davros
    Yeah- when Mickey stepped up and said he'd stay, I was fucking shocked. It's kinda funny how he says he doesn't want to be the "tin dog", but in reality, he was. He was the difference maker and he was brave. I liked the Mickey character a lot because he was sort of stupid and comedy relief. After this though, he has become one of my favorites of all the Doctor's companions.


He goes half circle (not in the Adric sense) and I loved his growing a backbone. Rose probably deserved what she got since she thought the Doctor is all the man she needed...until she realized how important Mickey is/was.

Noel Clarke may be one the coolest guys in the cast. Especially if he had disagreed w/RTD on the early characterization of Mickey. I also notice a sneaky comment he makes at the beginning of the Age of Steel commentary (just don't go too far down the page).

    Originally posted by Odessasteps
    I'm glad there was no sappy conversion of Pete Tyler at the end of AGE OF STEEL.


Why would there be one? Having alt-Jackie die in the parallel universe is fitting for the ongoing drama that is Rose Tyler's Life. I like this no-bull version of Pete Tyler.

Cyberman fans might get a kick at the next episode of Torchwood.

In honor of dead Jackie, here's a tidbit about a short subject starring the actress playing her:

    Originally posted by BBC

    Starring Camille (Jackie) Coduri, and written by Doctor Who script editor Simon Winstone, it's a one-off spookfest from members of both the Doctor Who and Torchwood production crews.

    There's a dark secret in the village. Will a single mother have the courage to defeat a savage monster, or will she become the sacrifice?



Here's Sacrifice for the curious.
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