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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Judgment Day Thoughts
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TheBucsFan
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#1 Posted on 19.5.02 2203.00
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2204.04
Eddie over RVD- Good match, here's to hoping we see a ladder match between these two down the road.



Trish over Stacy- What was the point? Of course Trish won, but why not put someone like Molly here and maybe give us a good match.



Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman over Hardy Boyz. Again, I don't understand what the point of this match was. Fans don't care about Heyman, so why do they care if he teases getting beat up or sneaks in a pinfall?



Stone Cold Steve Austin defeats Ric Flair & The Big Show. Blah. Good match, I guess, but why did Austin have to win? I mean, if Flair can't even beat him with His Bigness at his side, why should anyone want to see an Austin/Flair match down the road? Maybe they're not going that direction afterall...



Edge pins Kurt Angle. Another good match- though not as good as the Backlash one, IMO- with the right person winning. I wish all the main eventers had the attitude towards elevating new guys that Angle does.



Hell in a Cell

Triple H over Chris Jericho. So Jericho lost. Oh well, this was an awesome match, worthy of the HITC label. I thought the ending with the pin on the cage was awkward though.



Rico & Rikishi beat Chuck & Billy. Who cares, these belts are meaningless right now.



The Undertaker pins Hollywood Hulk Hogan for his fourth WWF Title (not third, like CRZ said in his Q n D results). On one hand, I think the Hogan title run needced to be killed. On the other hand, I don't think giving the belt to the Undertaker solves the problem.


Overall, I thought it was a really good show.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Hogan/Undertaker sucked hard. Terrible match.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 19.5.02 2308)
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Well Its The Big O
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#2 Posted on 19.5.02 2212.04
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2215.13
You know, they've been doing this strange sequencing shit for a while now. I truly don't get it at all, not one bit. I've heard people say some stuff but what the hell ever happened to building momentum?

I mean, Rock vs Hogan was followed by a womens title match!

Now they've got Austin vs Flair/Big Show as if it was nothing but a mid card match. I mean, really, the only way to know how important a match/feud is is where it's positioned on the card.

Why couldn't they just have Austin vs Big Show/Flair, then HHH vs Jericho, then Undertaker vs Hogan?
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#3 Posted on 19.5.02 2227.53
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2229.01

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    The Undertaker pins Hollywood Hulk Hogan for his fourth WWF Title (not third, like CRZ said in his Q n D results). On one hand, I think the Hogan title run needced to be killed. On the other hand, I don't think giving the belt to the Undertaker solves the problem.


Sooo... Hogan goes to RAW now? If so, I just had the horrid idea of this being a move to try and boost up the NWO angle again with a Flair/Hogan feud that either involves NWO Flair vs a face Hogan or turning Hogan NWO again and feuding over leadership. Either way, blegh.
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#4 Posted on 19.5.02 2230.06
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2230.37

    Why couldn't they just have Austin vs Big Show/Flair, then HHH vs Jericho, then Undertaker vs Hogan?


Because if they ran Hogan after HHH/Jericho, Hogan would be more exposed that he already is. This is another reason why I hated Hogan with the title: Protecting him at the cost of the credibility of the other wrestlers. Hopefully, the company took a step in the right direction tonight
Well Its The Big O
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#5 Posted on 19.5.02 2230.49
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2234.47
I still think that the whole Icon vs Icon feud was awesome, I thought there might have been a chance that the match would be as Hogan as underdog face and Undertaker as monster heel which would have meant it had a good chance to be okay.

Was it as bad as the worst ever? Kevin Nash vs Hulk Hogan?
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#6 Posted on 19.5.02 2236.09
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2237.12
Jericho's career is now in limbo. Hunter will never put him over. Damn.
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#7 Posted on 19.5.02 2237.14
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2237.32
No. It was very slow, but it wasn't straight up awful. I mean they didn't miss any spots (they mistimed a chokeslam, worst point) and Taker did have a rather nifty counter of the legdrop into a half crab. All in all, I wouldn't say it was good, but it could have been a lot worse.

All in all, this was a pretty good show, almost every match was better than expected. I still have no use for HHH winning, even if the match was good. I don't see the point of it, period. "Jericho put up one hell of a fight" still ain't enough in my mind. Is he ever going to beat this guy?

I'd probably give the show a thumbs up, mild, but still up.

(Take into consideration that I like Hogan I guess)
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#8 Posted on 19.5.02 2243.31
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2244.36
Worked:

Eddie/RVD
Edge/Angle (even the post match stuff was good)
HITC

Sucked:

Rikishi/Rico vs. AGD (Rico was the payoff???)
The Dudley Boys crap. (They can't run an angle on Metal but they can run one on PPV's?)
Hogan/Taker
Lesnar/Heyman vs. Hardy's
Austin vs. Flair/Big Show (The purpose was....)

Is there any thought given to match placement on the PPV cards???
TheBucsFan
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#9 Posted on 19.5.02 2245.11
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2245.29

    Originally posted by Well Its The Big O
    I still think that the whole Icon vs Icon feud was awesome, I thought there might have been a chance that the match would be as Hogan as underdog face and Undertaker as monster heel which would have meant it had a good chance to be okay.

    Was it as bad as the worst ever? Kevin Nash vs Hulk Hogan?



Well it wasn't HORRIBLY DISGUSTING, but all the offense looked very weak from both guys.
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#10 Posted on 19.5.02 2249.21
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2251.53
-Eddie vs. RVD was a solid matchup, though again something just isn't quite sparking between the two of them. It seems like because the buildup has been so muted between them that the crowd can't quite get into it, and they in turn can't quite push the match from good into great territory. Some nice sequences though worth giving props to, especially the fight for the surfboard.

-Trish vs. Stacy did what it needed to, which was to push the Dudley feud. Does anyone know if the KOTR is going to be an inter-brand PPV? If so, then it all makes sense. If not, then I'm not quite sure what all of this accomplishes.

-Hardyz vs. Brock Heyman didn't do much for me. The only thing I could see coming from this is the inevitable Lesnar face turn, which I really could do without. If they're worried about him getting face heat, just have him get squashed by Austin. God knows that's the fate of everyone else on Raw. This did nothing for anyone involved as far as I could see.

-Just a quick note on the Booker T thing. Yeah, the payoff was coming from a mile away. I laughed my ass off anyhow.

-Austin vs. Big Flair just was not good. I love Ric Flair, but I do not need to see Flair wrestling more than once or twice a year anymore. Thank goodness Austin didn't do anything silly like losing against 3 guys, that might sap his What Heat.

Angle vs. Edge was really two matches. The first one culminated in a seemingly endless resthold. That match was horrible, and damn near killed any hope of a main event push for Edge. The second match got the crowd alive and got seriously hot in the final few minutes as each guy pulled out finisher after finisher. The second half of the match was amazing, but seriously dragged down by the first half which was just brutally slow.

HHH vs. his designated bitch....oooh boy. Was there anyone on the planet who thought Jericho stood a chance in hell of doing anything but being beaten on and getting to once again let HHH look like the big man in WWE? Not nearly up to the intensity level of Michaels/UT, and nothing like the shock value of Foley/UT. I saw this match once before, it was called Last Man Standing, and it took Jericho 18 months to really recover his heat. If what I saw on Smackdown is a sign of what HHH has on his plate next, I can only say RUN, EDGE, RUN! No one in the fanbase is going to buy the crap about "Jericho took HHH to the limit", and all this does is continue Jericho's slow morphing into Lex Luger to HHH's Ric Flair, or becoming Savage to HHH's Hogan. Fuck HHH, fuck his crappy-writing girlfriend, and fuck Vince for being under the spell of HHH's roid fueled body.

Rico/Rikishi vs. Chuckabilly was one I didn't care about, the fans didn't care about, and neither should you.

Hogan v. Taker sappped my will to live. Hogan is painful to watch try to wrestle. And is there anyone who thinks an Undertaker title run is going to help them out of the doldrums that they're in. They really need to find a way to keep Hogan around in a non main event, preferably non-wrestling role.

All in all this was a pretty piss poor card I thought. I really was not all that into most of what I saw, and if I had paid $34.95 for that card I would have been spitting mad.

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#11 Posted on 19.5.02 2253.27
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2253.47
I thought it was a pretty good PPV... I think the first bunch of matches were all at least decent.

Trish and Stacy blew no spots, had a nice little match. I continue to enjoy the growth of the women's.

Austin seemed to me not to be trying to hard for a month or two now. But tonight he had a real fun match. Things dragged a touch when Slow entered the ring, but other than that it was fun.

Edge and Angle... the last five minutes were great! Another very good match from those two!

Hell in a cell.. I was a bit disappointed. I figured, being the cynical smark nerd that I am, that HHH would win. But it was still a bit disappointing. But what got me was there was no good spots. None that live up to hell in a cell, anyway. I mean, while I'd rater have no big spots than 'rikishi falling into hay', i think i'd rather not see a hell in the cell if noone's going to do something a little crazy.

Still, pretty solid show!
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#12 Posted on 19.5.02 2256.18
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2259.01

    Sooo... Hogan goes to RAW now? If so, I just had the horrid idea of this being a move to try and boost up the NWO angle again with a Flair/Hogan feud that either involves NWO Flair vs a face Hogan or turning Hogan NWO again and feuding over leadership. Either way, blegh.


You know, if WWE hadn't dropped the ball and turned Flair into a heel, we could've had a nice little situation on our hands here. Think about it: Flair and Hogan decide on one last run partnered with each other in a tag team. In tag matches, their in-ring weaknesses could've been hidden, and the crowd heat would be amazing. It could actually make the tag belts worth something again.
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#13 Posted on 19.5.02 2259.44
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2300.09
This ppv was fucking horrible - HORRIBLE. Let's run things down...

Eddie vs. RVD was simply not as good as last month. RVD looked as lost as ever during certain sequences, either not paying attention or hesitating on his execution. ** 1/4

Trish vs. Stacy was really, really bad on several levels. First, the match blew. Second, there is no excuse for a fat, useless schlub like Bubba to get offense on a prospect like Deacon Batista. Bubba will never go anywhere, so why is he being put over? Also, how can Bubba and D-Von feud if they are on opposite shows? DUD

Brock/fatty vs. Hardyz was a joke...it didn't do anything for Brock or the Hardyz. Heyman gets the duke and screams "ME!" a lot...how typical. *

Austin vs. Big Show/Flair was a fucking putrid match that made no sense whatsoever. The crowd was dead, there weren't any meaningful nearfalls, and the selling was so inconsistent and poor that I could not believe a wrestler the caliber of Austin was involved. There was zero effort put forth by all parties, and the match was just embarassing. -*

Edge vs. Angle was excellent. They built nicely off their match at backlash, adding counters and sequences to tell the audience that they learned a bit about each other. The execution was spot on, the counters were quick, and the psych was solid. Hey, notice that this was the only match that got any kind of crowd reaction? ****

Hell in a Cell - bad match. It was just a bad match. They used no moves, drew no heat, and had no near falls. I find it totally ballsy of J.R. to say that the match could have gone either way, when Jericho did not get a single near fall on HHH! The crowd was dead for good reason - it waited for garbage and they delivered in spades, including a truly pathetic sequence with a barbed wire board. Totally embarassing. * 3/4

Tag Match debacle - Just when I thought the booking couldn't get any worse...the crowd didn't say a peep during this entire suckfest, and who could blame them? Billy and Chuck tried to work but Rikishi brought his D game. Gotta love the absolutely silent crowd for a title change. Horrible wrestling, horrible booking, just total shit. -*

Hulk Hogan vs. Undertaker - This match was better than it had any right to be, and much better than Hogan/HHH and Taker/Austin from last month. I'm not saying it was good, because it wasn't. Taker bumped his ass off and Hogan brought the drama, so this one was watchable. The booking sucked, but there was nothing else they can do...they are convinced that Hogan is the reason ratings are decreasing, when it's quite obvious that the writing/booking is fucking horrendous. I would love to be a fly on the wall in the booking meetings over the next month as ratings continue to decline, and HHH gets himself another title run. * 1/4
Jaguar
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#14 Posted on 19.5.02 2309.01
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2310.05
Just a note on that Big Bad: No Tag belts on RAW.

Anyway... on Judgement Day... I got this PPV because my friends had nothing better to do than to come over to my house and pay to watch it here. I liked RVD/Eddy. I liked Stacy/Trish. I liked Booker T/Goldust. Everything else we talked through and were bored by. What was so great about Hell in the Cell? No insane spot, nothing really interesting at all except for Jericho bleeding from the arm, and Jericho going psycho on the ref. That was it. *yawn* Brock/Hardys was fine. I enjoy Brock, I enjoyed the match. Now just get Brock some motivation and have him do something besides destroy the Hardys. Austin/nWo. Bleh. More friends came over, and we talked all the way through it. We were bored. The What/Woo thing made us watch for a couple seconds. Edge/Angle sucked, except for the closing of the match and the backstage shennanigans (Angle hiding was great). We all played some Counterstrike during the Tag Team match, and the Title match. I love Undertaker. I wanted him to win. Then I realized that because he won, I will now be subjected to that horrible new enterance music of his. Oh god that stuff is horrible.

So overall? Extremely bored, and I would've rather spent that money on Kurt Angle's You suck T-shirt. RVD/Eddy rocked though.

-Jag

Best line of the night-> JR: "Kurt Angle. He's Bald... and he sucks."

Added: Sean, did you watch the same PPV as me? Even though I was personally bored by it the crowd was screaming their damn fool heads off for Austin and Flair, and then as soon as Angle hit the ring they went completely dead, and didn't start until much later in the Angle/Edge match. Then there was no crowd heat until Hogan/Taker.

Also, in HiTC Jericho pinned HHH directly after the Ref bump, and should've won a long time ago. After that, Jericho got nothing going on. Well except when HHH hit him with the barb wire and it stuck in his head. That was gross.



(edited by Jaguar on 20.5.02 0016)
Sean
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#15 Posted on 19.5.02 2328.01
Reposted on: 19.5.09 2328.35
You Say: Sean, did you watch the same PPV as me? Even though I was personally bored by it the crowd was screaming their damn fool heads off for Austin and Flair, and then as soon as Angle hit the ring they went completely dead, and didn't start until much later in the Angle/Edge match. Then there was no crowd heat until Hogan/Taker.

I say: Watch the shit in between the dueling chants...dead silence. Check the giant pop for that tremendous finish they so expertly built toward...oh wait, the crowd didn't react. Sure, they got heat for spots, but they didn't _build_ heat, and by the end everything was dead.

You say: Also, in HiTC Jericho pinned HHH directly after the Ref bump, and should've won a long time ago. After that, Jericho got nothing going on. Well except when HHH hit him with the barb wire and it stuck in his head. That was gross.

I say: Of course, that's not a near fall. Nobody bought it, which is why nobody counted along. Recall when HHH had Jericho pinned in the cage and the crowd counted along? There was never any moment in that match where the crowd bought a possible Jericho victory - hence, a glorified squash.

Also, I find it very humorous on multiple levels that Bill Goldberg drew more heat on this PPV than Undertaker and HHH combined.
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#16 Posted on 20.5.02 0010.27
Reposted on: 20.5.09 0011.23
A few random thoughts...

Undertaker's new music sucks. "Dead man walkin'..." and one chord repeating over and over again. Is Jim Johnston even TRYING anymore?

The Booker T. segments were good stuff and had the whole bar I was at tonight laughing. Predictable or not, Booker was pretty entertaining. Sucka.

You know, they break out that spiffy new Undisputed Championship belt and now the thing is six weeks old and has THREE BUTTONS MISSING. That's weak. Get the belt fixed. It's your showcase title.

HHH as a face just absolutely doesn't work. It was nice to cheer him for a month when he made the big comeback from surgery, but the honeymoon is over. The guy willingly admitted that he hasn't changed his act since becoming a face. So, if he hasn't changed HIS act, then why should the CROWD change the way it reacts to him? There's a difference between working as a bad ass face and a monster heel and I don't think the alleged "smartest man in the industry," the self-proclaimed "student of the game" understands that concept yet. Keep studying, Trips. And get the cement blocks off your feet so you can move at full speed again.

And poor Chris Jericho. I think it was at Fully Loaded 2000 when, coincidentally, Jericho lost a big time gimmick match to HHH that Scott Keith said "Welcome to midcard hell, buddy. Hope you enjoyed your cup of coffee with credibility." Amazing how the past repeats itself. Two years later, Jericho worked his ass off and was just dumped on again. It's sad, Jerky.

And finally, I really don't like the new match order theory of putting a garbage match between the final two. They've done this now for the last three PPVs in a row. It sucks. I understand using a good match to open the show (see: RVD vs. Guerrero tonight) because you want to set the tone for the night, but this garbage about putting a throw-away match at the end is asinine. It doesn't give the crowd a chance to catch its breath. It kills crowd heat. Your main eventers shouldn't need a breather match before them. They should be able to deliver the goods no matter WHO wrestles before them. If they can't, then they don't belong in the main event.
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#17 Posted on 20.5.02 0016.18
Reposted on: 20.5.09 0018.45

    I mean, Rock vs Hogan was followed by a womens title match!



Well the reason for this is so Rock/Hogan wouldn't TOTALLY kill HHH/Jericho's main event match. You put some fluff right after the big match and people tend to downplay it in their minds. Then after the stupidity was over you have your next big match and that's what the crowd is focused on. NOT the amazing thing they just saw match before last. That's why you'd always have like a gravy bowl match or something right after a TLC match. Or a Godfather match right before Austin/Rock. The match before the main event is sort of supposed to be a heat killer so people will be jazzed when something good comes along.
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#18 Posted on 20.5.02 0031.08
Reposted on: 20.5.09 0035.54
Before we start off let me remind everyone to slaughter an endangered species everyday. Remember kill a Panda save a Federation.


Ok, Judgment Day was good. It wasn't bad and great. And it was better than watching the cope out Chris Carter ending to X-Files any day. Jesus, you wait nine years and you get nothing really for it. I'd pay $35.00 to be entertained than watching the train wreck that was the last two hours.

I think they are buring RVD, Hardies and Jerich for no good reason. Granted HHH/Taker for King of the Ring has some storyline in it now. I just think the HitC match was HHH's match to prove to me he is back to his old good wrestling self. I hate to say it, but he is not. He has lost more than a step. Tonight's match was not about Jericho's last chance, but HHH's last chance to be a crediable face. I think he has failed. Its easy to get the cheap Foley pop for bringing out the barded wire two by four, but its harder to keep the fans entertained. Say what you want about the Austin match, but the fans were in it for almost the entire match and that helps a lot. HHH could have been anyone in that match against Jericho and he would have gotten a pop for pinning him. HHH is the way who is not ready, not Jericho.

A Fan- Waiting for Edge/HHH so HHH can do this heel bit again.
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#19 Posted on 20.5.02 0044.48
Reposted on: 20.5.09 0047.37
Funniest moment of the night...
Rikishi kicks out of the Fame-ass-er...
No one cares.
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#20 Posted on 20.5.02 0103.24
Reposted on: 20.5.09 0104.46
So, did anyone else see the "STAY AWAY FROM THE SPANISH ANNOUNCE TABLE!!!" sign backstage? It was during the final Angle/Edge promo where Angle pulls out Edge from the backstage area, grabs the mic (the sign is visible there), and to the main wrestler's entrance, before the haircut.

Above it was a sign that said "WWE" underlined, with four sayings underneath. I couldn't make out the first two, but the last two were 'New Look!' and 'New Attitute!".
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