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25.4.08 1706
The 7 - Movies & TV - Nacho Libre
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The Vile1
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#1 Posted on 14.6.06 0429.13
Reposted on: 14.6.13 0429.42
Saw it last night.

My basic impression:

Jared and Jerusha Hess know jack shit about professional wrestling and lucha libre. One would think that making a movie where it's part of the subject means you have to do some research or study up on it. The presentation was inauthentic and very novice to me. The rules were totally wrong. I didn't know hitting someone with a dropkick means the match is over.

There's some funny stuff with Black here and there, but a lot of it falls flat. The wrestling aspects were just weak.

Fun cameos:


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
Silver King as Ramses, the lucha libre champion that Nacho faces at the end.

The Human Tornado has a cameo as "El Snowflake."
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wmatistic
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#2 Posted on 14.6.06 0641.51
Reposted on: 14.6.13 0642.01
You know when I first saw a preview for this movie I told myself, whether it's funny or not it'll be a delight to see the thread at some of these boards where the wrestling fans go so far as to give star ratings to the "matches" in it.

In other words I really don't think it matters how close to actual lucha they come for the general public, just that the movie is funny. Having not seen it yet I can't say if it is or not though.
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#3 Posted on 14.6.06 0913.22
Reposted on: 14.6.13 0914.19
I really think it's silly to expect a rigourous reconstruction of Lucha Libre here. The movie stars Jack Black as a successful pro wrestler, fer Cripes' sakes.
thecubsfan
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#4 Posted on 14.6.06 1202.05
Reposted on: 14.6.13 1202.22
How did YOU get to see this movie early and I did not get see this movie yet? The world is not fair to me!

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    I really think it's silly to expect a rigourous reconstruction of Lucha Libre here.


FWIW, Hess has been playing up "I really love lucha libre and especially the old Santo movies" in interviews, so you'd think it'd be something resembling it.
The Vile1
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#5 Posted on 14.6.06 1331.44
Reposted on: 14.6.13 1333.05
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    I really think it's silly to expect a rigourous reconstruction of Lucha Libre here. The movie stars Jack Black as a successful pro wrestler, fer Cripes' sakes.


Successful is the last word you would use to describe Black's character for this movie.

I also don't think it's silly at all. I wasn't expecting it to be rigorous, but I simply got the impression that the Hesses really don't watch any wrestling at all and didn't do any homework.

Aren't military movies and other things supposed to have advisors and such for authenticity? Also, in other movies, or sports movies, they don't screw up the rules this badly.



    You know when I first saw a preview for this movie I told myself, whether it's funny or not it'll be a delight to see the thread at some of these boards where the wrestling fans go so far as to give star ratings to the "matches" in it.


Well the deal is, this is supposed to be a significant part of the movie. The sequences themselves get tiresome very quickly.



    In other words I really don't think it matters how close to actual lucha they come for the general public, just that the movie is funny. Having not seen it yet I can't say if it is or not though.


I think kids and families might like it. Shooting this movie in the style of Napoleon Dynamite doesn't do it any favors. There's a lot of juvenile toilet humor and farting that seems to be in there for the sake of the kiddies.
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#6 Posted on 14.6.06 1811.26
Reposted on: 14.6.13 1812.08
    Originally posted by The Vile1
    Aren't military movies and other things supposed to have advisors and such for authenticity? Also, in other movies, or sports movies, they don't screw up the rules this badly.


Maybe its me, but when I go to see a MILITARY movie, its usually, USUALLY an action/suspense movie where the action NEEDS to be realistic to help the movie along. Not sure this movie NEEDS that.

Plus, I never confused the previews for Nacho Libre for Hunt For Red October.
TheBucsFan
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#7 Posted on 14.6.06 1903.29
Reposted on: 14.6.13 1903.42
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
      Originally posted by The Vile1
      Aren't military movies and other things supposed to have advisors and such for authenticity? Also, in other movies, or sports movies, they don't screw up the rules this badly.


    Maybe its me, but when I go to see a MILITARY movie, its usually, USUALLY an action/suspense movie where the action NEEDS to be realistic to help the movie along. Not sure this movie NEEDS that.

    Plus, I never confused the previews for Nacho Libre for Hunt For Red October.


NOTE: I didn't see the movie, so I don't know specifically what "rules" weren't followed. The person starting the thread didn't much elaborate beyond "dropkicks don't end matches."

THAT SAID, if you went to see The Natural, or Eight Men Out, or Major League, or any of the other billion baseball movies, and the guys were playing with five bases, or counted a ball bouncing over the fence as a homerun instead of a double, wouldn't you be a little annoyed, even though those things are pretty irrelevent to the point of those movies?

I'm not much of a Jack Black fan and I don't remember ever seeing a good movie in theaters involving pro wrestling in any way, so I'll probably pass on this flick. But if I did pay to see it I'd expect a little research, the most minor of research, to at least be apparent.
wmatistic
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#8 Posted on 14.6.06 1945.13
Reposted on: 14.6.13 1946.00
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
        Originally posted by The Vile1
        Aren't military movies and other things supposed to have advisors and such for authenticity? Also, in other movies, or sports movies, they don't screw up the rules this badly.


      Maybe its me, but when I go to see a MILITARY movie, its usually, USUALLY an action/suspense movie where the action NEEDS to be realistic to help the movie along. Not sure this movie NEEDS that.

      Plus, I never confused the previews for Nacho Libre for Hunt For Red October.


    NOTE: I didn't see the movie, so I don't know specifically what "rules" weren't followed. The person starting the thread didn't much elaborate beyond "dropkicks don't end matches."

    THAT SAID, if you went to see The Natural, or Eight Men Out, or Major League, or any of the other billion baseball movies, and the guys were playing with five bases, or counted a ball bouncing over the fence as a homerun instead of a double, wouldn't you be a little annoyed, even though those things are pretty irrelevent to the point of those movies?

    I'm not much of a Jack Black fan and I don't remember ever seeing a good movie in theaters involving pro wrestling in any way, so I'll probably pass on this flick. But if I did pay to see it I'd expect a little research, the most minor of research, to at least be apparent.


While I understand, you must also notice the slight difference between the general public reaction to a baseball movie, a sport which 99.99999% of Americans know, to a Lucha movie, something I think perhaps half the people on this board understand and a couple more somewhere in North Dakota. I personally wouldn't be too worried about a backlash from the huge American lucha fanbase if I didn't get the facts right, but that's just me.

complaining about this is kinda like watching Naked Gun and bitching that the real cops don't act like that.
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#9 Posted on 15.6.06 0859.07
Reposted on: 15.6.13 0859.57
You know, thing brings up a good point - and I suppose it reflects on this as well. I don't think the international rules of tetherball were followed in Napoleon Dynamite either.

It's a frickin' comedy, for goodness sake. It's got to be more accurate than No Holds Barred.
The Vile1
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#10 Posted on 15.6.06 1732.43
Reposted on: 15.6.13 1733.33
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    You know, thing brings up a good point - and I suppose it reflects on this as well. I don't think the international rules of tetherball were followed in Napoleon Dynamite either.

    It's a frickin' comedy, for goodness sake. It's got to be more accurate than No Holds Barred.


Even Dodgeball established and followed the rules of dodgeball. That's all I have to say about the com-o-dee argument.

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#11 Posted on 15.6.06 1934.51
Reposted on: 15.6.13 1934.55
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    You know, thing brings up a good point - and I suppose it reflects on this as well. I don't think the international rules of tetherball were followed in Napoleon Dynamite either.

    It's a frickin' comedy, for goodness sake. It's got to be more accurate than No Holds Barred.


But Napolean Dynamite wasn't marketed towards the international tetherball community though. At least a significant portion of Nacho's audience are supposed to be wrestling fans, who will be too distracted by the crap they made up to pay attention to the jokes. It's almost like the people making the movie said "This movie's going to be a flop, let's not even waste our time doing it right..."

And to compare a ball bouncing over the wall being a home run to this stuff isn't accurate either. The correct comparison to this movie would be if he was complaining that they DQ'd people for closed fists or something. That would be a minor thing and would be ignored by even most wrestling fans. Major League would have had to have something like "the bats were made of cheese" and "three teams play at once" to get these to the same level.

Establishing and following the rules of Dodgeball is what kept "Dodgeball" as a comedy and not two hours of complete stupidity.


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#12 Posted on 15.6.06 2000.43
Reposted on: 15.6.13 2000.43
Just remember the pro wrestling is a fake sport and has no actual rules except that you must do what the storyline tells you to do. I recall a match once where the first guy to do a powerbomb won. Granted, a dropkick is kind of ridiculous compared to a powerbomb. But I'd say that arguing the legitimacy of rules of a fake sport as seen in a comedy movie is equally ridiculous.
The Vile1
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#13 Posted on 15.6.06 2030.17
Reposted on: 15.6.13 2030.36
    Originally posted by samoflange
    Just remember the pro wrestling is a fake sport and has no actual rules except that you must do what the storyline tells you to do. I recall a match once where the first guy to do a powerbomb won. Granted, a dropkick is kind of ridiculous compared to a powerbomb. But I'd say that arguing the legitimacy of rules of a fake sport as seen in a comedy movie is equally ridiculous.


Pro wrestling is not presented as "fake" in the movie. Nothing is ever said that you can win a match just by using a dropkick. It's just confusing that they have all these matches and they never establish what the rules are. And when they lose its like, WTF?! where was the pin, where was the submission?

Lucha-libre, pro wrestling, fake or not, there are set and established rules to win a match.

The movie never even touched on them so it was confusing when you don't even know what Nacho had to do in order to win the match.

Even if other sports movies aren't dealing with a fake sport, they follow the rules of said sport without these wacky and nonsensical happenings.
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#14 Posted on 15.6.06 2108.56
Reposted on: 15.6.13 2110.27
I've heard that the depiction of a Mexican monastery is very poor indeed. I don't see how anyone can make a movie, let alone a COMEDY for Groucho's sake and not make it as real as possible. Because we all know the reason people go to movies like this is to see realism, not escapism.

I bet you hated "A Day At The Races" because Harpo wasn't realistic as a jockey.

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#15 Posted on 15.6.06 2158.51
Reposted on: 15.6.13 2159.01
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    But Napolean Dynamite wasn't marketed towards the international tetherball community though. At least a significant portion of Nacho's audience are supposed to be wrestling fans, who will be too distracted by the crap they made up to pay attention to the jokes.


Why is it you think this? Because Nacho had a couple ads on Raw? There are a heck of a lot of ads running and have run for Nacho - for example, the kids in my church are psyched for the movie - and I can tell you none of them care a whit about wrestling. Oh, now, they like Mucha Lucha or whatever it was a lot. I never saw that show, but my boy tells me it is a hoot.

They aren't psyched because of the appearance of Silver King, but because it's by the Napoleon Dynamite guys. I haven't seen it yet, but that's the same reason I'll see it. Not a Jack Black fan, so my expectations are low.
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#16 Posted on 16.6.06 1435.19
Reposted on: 16.6.13 1436.35
...and I was made fun of for how I thought about X3?

I know NOTHING about Lucha yet I find the Santo movies highly entertaining.
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#17 Posted on 16.6.06 1603.27
Reposted on: 16.6.13 1603.57
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    It's a frickin' comedy, for goodness sake.
Actually, it's not a very good comedy either.

WOW was this bad.

WOW.

And I LOVED Napoleon Dynamite.
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#18 Posted on 17.6.06 0753.55
Reposted on: 17.6.13 0753.57
I thought the movie was pretty funny in a lot of parts. If you don't like Jack Black's regular sch-tick then you won't like this. The sound track was pretty good. A lot of beck songs and some sang by Black.
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#19 Posted on 18.6.06 1207.28
Reposted on: 18.6.13 1208.13
I saw it last night. It's very funny, and Hess was able to rein in Black effectively.

As for not following the rules:
-the dropkick ended the match because Nacho was knocked unconscious
-the other matches were just showing them getting their asses kicked, implying that there were not going to be any further momentum shifts
-619 by the caveman!
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#20 Posted on 18.6.06 1245.42
Reposted on: 18.6.13 1247.42
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    ...and I was made fun of for how I thought about X3?

    I know NOTHING about Lucha yet I find the Santo movies highly entertaining.


It wasn't so much how you though of X3 then asking someone if they were "fucking retarded" for liking it.
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