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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - RAW #677 05/15/06 Register and log in to post!
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hansen9j
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#21 Posted on 16.5.06 0819.44
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0821.04
    Originally posted by Mr Tuesday
      Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
      His explanation made zero sense.

    Actually, it made perfect sence. Unless your the type that can't read between the lines and need everything spelled out for you.


The problem is that for anyone watching that's not online and knows about Two Night Stand, this came out of nowhere. The only thing we've heard about ECW is Joey quitting, and RVD agreeing. Nothing even hinting that it's returning. It makes it seem like Foley is being ridiculously paranoid, or just stupid.

That being said, the segment was very good and got me pumped for TNS (although I was a little disappointed that Foley and Funk worked their punches as much as they did).
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#22 Posted on 16.5.06 0820.13
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0821.07
    Originally posted by rv581
    Well, if anyone is wondering what the WWE will do with Samoa Joe when they eventually sign him, look no further than the Umaga angle...

    The crazy-violent-savage-Samoan character has been a wrestling staple for decades, but I sorta think that Joe's success in TNA is having something to do with the current Umaga push.


I have to disagree with that statement. I don't see any resemblance between Umaga and Samoa Joe. Samoa Joe seems pissed off all the time, but he doesn't seem like a mindless savage which is how Umaga is being portrayed.

I don't care for the Umaga character for that reason, even though the wrestler has shown some in-ring talent. I like old-school wrestling, but I could really do without this kind of old-school stereotyping and it proves nothing to me when a character comes out week after week and beats up some guy I've never seen before. Also, it cripples a wrestler if he can't cut his own promos, even for artificial reasons. For me, it would be really nice if Umaga would beat Alejandro's ass and tell him in no uncertain words that he's tired of talking gibberish and painting his face like he fell asleep on a George Foreman grill just so he can hurt people. But, then again, if frogs had wings....

Samoa Joe, OTOH, has been built up as an ass-kicking machine with a fresh set of batteries, but he did it on the backs of some of the stars of the company, not the Jobber Of The Week. He cuts his own promos. He wants no friends. He's got a bad attitude. He's only there for one purpose. (winning!) If ya gots to find a Samoan that Joe is similar to, he seems a lot closer to the Rock than Umaga. He's NOT the Rock, but I don't think you can attribute Samoa Joe's success to Umaga's push. There's just no parallel there for me.
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#23 Posted on 16.5.06 0831.56
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0832.49
Not one Yellow Bellied, Egg Sucking Dog comment by Funk? Disappointing. Calling Bischoff a homo in order to get Foley to snap was better and Raven as an evil psychological master over Foley was better than him aligning with Edge. Now, since the Dungeon of Doom T-Shirt won't really work, will Foley be wearing a Mark Henry T-Shirt to be pulled over his head for the chairshots at the PPV? And, Foley better not bitch and moan after the Cane Dewey or Cane insert name of youngest child here signs are out at TNS.
The opening match seemed like a good old fashioned wacky Memphis idea. Why RVD ran to the ring to save Cena at the beginning of the match made zero sense though, as if Cena lost before he got to the ring RVD wouldn't have lost his championship.
Considering where they are going with DX, for the This Week in Wrestling History Moment wouldn't the clique farewell at MSG have made more sense than Bruno wins the WWWF Title without any video from that evening?


(edited by redsoxnation on 16.5.06 0933)
Matt Tracker
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#24 Posted on 16.5.06 0838.12
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0838.57
OMG, RVD lost his belt to further a Triple H angle!!1!! Glazz sealing!!1

The Snitsky/Goldust vs. Spirit Squad match was a big nothing until that end move. The evil trampoline will not be denied. It sits, it schemes, it strikes. Fear the trampoline.

The Beth/Trish/Micky bit was horrible and baffling. Not as baffling as Terry Funk starting his riff with "I know why you did it. Tell me why you did it, I wanna know." The energy of the skit was good. Mick again is maybe the best ever for selling pathos, but there was no clear distinction for heel/face. Mick insults West Texas, defends his family, and helps Edge beat down Funk. With this, the return of DX, and the pre-WM crowd reactions to Cena, it seems like the WWE is embracing "shades of gray" again. That's fine. I ultimately don't care why Mick and Foley feud becuase I'm buying the ECW PPV and hoping for a decent run by that promotion. This sales pitch is wasted on me individually as a customer, but I enjoy watching Mick hit a groove like he did last night.

Kudos to Matt Striker for KILLING Eugene last night. He blocked the stunner, broke from the Hulk legdrop pin, and then busted out a vicious neckcracker. The only thing he didn't do was imitate DEAN's "Death Dealer Simon" decapitation schtick. That was a Val Venis-worthy enhancement job.
rv581
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#25 Posted on 16.5.06 0847.11
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0847.40
    Originally posted by rinberg
      Originally posted by rv581
      Well, if anyone is wondering what the WWE will do with Samoa Joe when they eventually sign him, look no further than the Umaga angle...

      The crazy-violent-savage-Samoan character has been a wrestling staple for decades, but I sorta think that Joe's success in TNA is having something to do with the current Umaga push.


    I have to disagree with that statement. I don't see any resemblance between Umaga and Samoa Joe. Samoa Joe seems pissed off all the time, but he doesn't seem like a mindless savage which is how Umaga is being portrayed.

    I don't care for the Umaga character for that reason, even though the wrestler has shown some in-ring talent. I like old-school wrestling, but I could really do without this kind of old-school stereotyping and it proves nothing to me when a character comes out week after week and beats up some guy I've never seen before. Also, it cripples a wrestler if he can't cut his own promos, even for artificial reasons. For me, it would be really nice if Umaga would beat Alejandro's ass and tell him in no uncertain words that he's tired of talking gibberish and painting his face like he fell asleep on a George Foreman grill just so he can hurt people. But, then again, if frogs had wings....

    Samoa Joe, OTOH, has been built up as an ass-kicking machine with a fresh set of batteries, but he did it on the backs of some of the stars of the company, not the Jobber Of The Week. He cuts his own promos. He wants no friends. He's got a bad attitude. He's only there for one purpose. (winning!) If ya gots to find a Samoan that Joe is similar to, he seems a lot closer to the Rock than Umaga. He's NOT the Rock, but I don't think you can attribute Samoa Joe's success to Umaga's push. There's just no parallel there for me.


I don't entirely disagree with your analysis of Joe & Umaga, but methinks -- based on years of watching Vince McMahon's super-duper creative team packaging & repackaging characters -- that Samoa Joe would immediately be given a new name and a new identity that the WWE deems more marketable, should he arrive in Titan-land.

The Rock is an exception to a whole lot of rules for a whole host of reasons, but him aside, not too many Pacific Islanders in WWF / E history had much more depth than being an ass-kicking, borderline-savage, hard-headed wrestler. And with Joe not being thought of as a stellar promo-cutting kinda guy, I suspect that an Umaga angle is in his WWE future...

(Hey, I could be wrong. Maybe Vince will see dollar signs in the "Samoa Joe" name and won't tweak a thing. Based on past examples, I just don't think that's gonna happen.)
flairforthegold13
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#26 Posted on 16.5.06 0847.19
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0848.08
The problem with the Foley interview is that in story-line terms ECW is dead and they haven't even announced One Night Stand is coming back. All the smarks know what's up, but the fanbase is all of a sudden hearing Mick Foley complain about ECW and it's coming off as a disconnect. They should have announced the pay per view in an angle and then have WWE guys get all up in arms.

The show certainly had more plot developments than most.

I was dishearteded by the second consecutive bait and switch, but the match furthered the McMahon/H stuff and it got the IC title off Van Dam in a way that kinda sorta protects him. Does this lead to Bejy/Haas for the belt? Cena is like 3rd in importance on the show these days, but the boos have settled down a bit.

The Stratus/James segment was weird. That was TOTALLY a heel turn there by Trish. A babyface doesn't lure someone out, then have some jacked up person lay a beatdown on 'em. We're heading to a Mickie face turn anyway, so maybe that was the intent, but it was certainly strange.

The tag title match was disposable. I flipped to the end of the Cavs game. I liked the trampoline bulldog, though.

Back to the interview with Foley. It started off pretty flimsy. I admit I have some bias against Foley, but I can't get into his stuff. Maybe it's the fact that he posted in his blog, 'turn in for my HEEL PROMO Monday, guys.' It all seems so phony. I don't believe anything he says. Funk wasn't as bad as everyone seems to make him out to be and he was ten times more effective as a beatdown target than Johnny Ace's right hand man. If anything, Funk got over Foley as a heel more than anything Foley said or did. I'm certain the comment about Funk refusing to appear in 2003, as Sting would say, is a shoot. Dreamer appeared in that segment, and the reports the next day were that Funk refused for whatever reason. It was in MSG and I believe was the night Randy Orton kicked Foley down the stairs. The interview picked up steam near the end with the 'son' stuff and what not. It was certainly a different kind of segment.

I kind of dig Matt Striker. No real reason, he just seems smarmy.

The Carlio/Maria thing was amusingly pointless.

As squashes go, Umaga does entertaining ones, but they have to move on and do something with him. Rodriguez is getting over with his lines, incidentally.

The main event was your typical angle advancement. I liked the look of joy on Shane's face when the Spirit Squad was serenading him. Y'know, everyone was up in arms that they were going to bring back DX with no logical storyline reason. Well, they've certainly taken their time in establishing it with a logical build-up. The little touches of the McMahons picking at H, clearly thinking he'll never turn on them, is great. Hunter signaling Michaels to move was subtle and the fact that Shane got killed by the sledge (overplayed by Vince in typical Vince fashion) will get our story forward. Vince is going to put H on the highway to hell and it takes us right to Vengeance. The question is, how do they go with it? DX vs. Spirit Squad or do they go DX vs The McMahons?

No Kane. To me, that almost guarantees he'll be on SD this week, but we'll see.
kentish
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#27 Posted on 16.5.06 0941.20
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0941.24
Umaga is more of a Kamala type, while Joe is essentially a Samoan version of Kawada. Which is why Joe is cool, and Umaga sucks.
britishiles
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#28 Posted on 16.5.06 0949.33
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0949.46
I missed all but the last 40 minutes of Raw except during commercials. With the presidential address, "24" ran until 9:20ish. But I could have sworn they showed the "See No Evil" premiere footage twice.

Anyone else think Rosey is pissed he didn't get the Umaga bit?
Destrucity
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#29 Posted on 16.5.06 1008.20
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1008.30
I'm glad someone mentioned Terry Funk's punches. Ouch, ouch, ouch. It's tough to believe this is the same guy who was NWA world heavyweight champion like 40 years ago. His speech also sounded disturbingly like he was in the early stages of some degenerative brain disorder. Still, somehow, the segment was good. Go figure!

"Samoa Joe" is a really bad wrestling name. I'd change it. You can add that to never-would-have-given-Benoit-the-big-belt in the long list of non-Internet-approved booking decisions I would have made.

I think Umaga is boring. Estrada is kinda boring, too, though I'm reluctant to admit it. It's mostly his material. If he'd actually say something for once, he could be a nice little heel manager.

Matt Striker is all kinds of awesome. He totally and completely has "it." What a great heel. If I know Vince McMahon, you can expect to see a lot more of him.

And though I love the Spirit Squad, their cheers suck. I still think Kenny is destined for great things.
Deputy Marshall
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#30 Posted on 16.5.06 1034.11
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1041.15
Random thoughts:

- I sure wanted to like the Foley/Funk segment, but my reactions varied from confusion (is Mick using an angle whose trigger won't be pulled for at least another 2-3 months as motivation for a heel turn?) to apathy (Funk gets lost to the point where he doesn't defend Foley's allegations while Mick desperately tries to save the segment) to absolutely pity (Terry Funk getting physical with Mick Foley and Edge). If the rumored Dreamer/Funk vs. Foley/Edge match happens...man. What a trainwreck that's going to be.

- I am completely burned out on HHH and Cena being in some form of tag match with and/or against each other. It was interesting when they were playing off the two getting completely opposite reactions than were intended, specifically Cena acknowledging the boos and then developing his character through it. Now Cena (the WWE Champion) has become a complete afterthought, because OMG TRIPPPLE AITCH MMIGHT SAY SUCKIT.

- Speaking of burned out, I wish they'd scale back on the Spirit Squad a bit. There's wayyyy too much of them on the show now. They're entertaining, but anything when used so often gets tiring after awhile (and in particular heel characters as intentionally annoying as they are). They did provide the highlight of the night for me, but when said highlight involves a trampoline and a bulldog (one of my least favorite moves in professional wrestling), you know I had a bad viewing night.

- Last week, a woman came out and attacked Mickie, screaming stuff like "I hate you" and "you ruined my life" while Mickie screamed something along the lines of "you're not supposed to be here!" This week, Trish brings the woman out and she says "I hate you" and "you ruined my life" then gives us her first name while Mickie screams something along the lines of "you're not supposed to be here!" So...second week of the angle, the woman who attacked Mickie is brought into the ring by Trish for a promo and we don't have any idea what's going on. Oh, but we do know her first name. Seriously, what was the purpose of that segment then? It didn't explain anything except that Trish brought the woman in, which we already assumed/knew anyway.

All in all, I thought it was a pretty forgettable RAW. Edit: forgettable to the point that I completely forgot there was an IC title change...though I don't know if that says more about how forgettable the show was for me or how unimportant the IC title has become.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 16.5.06 1136)
Whattaburger
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#31 Posted on 16.5.06 1058.05
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1059.01
    Originally posted by Quezzy


    As for the Spirit Squad, personally I think disliking them in the "these guys remind of the monosyllabic, frat-boy douchebags I see walking around campus everyday and I want to punch them in the face so I never see them ever again" -way IS the "good heat-way". That is the characters they are portraying and they're obviously doing a good job if you feel that way.


Not really -- because it makes me change the channel.

Good heat is Ted DiBiase being an all-around asshole and making people feel like garbage around him and wanting to see him get his comeuppance.

Bad heat is when the Spirit Squad annoying the hell out of me with their poorly-timed cheers, stupid trampoline moves, and annoying personalitY and I just want them off my television.

They are like the bizarro version of Demolition (i.e. -- dumb as hell and nowhere near as badass.)

(edited by Whattaburger on 16.5.06 0858)
Wpob
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#32 Posted on 16.5.06 1130.04
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1136.13
    Originally posted by Destrucity


    Matt Striker is all kinds of awesome. He totally and completely has "it." What a great heel. If I know Vince McMahon, you can expect to see a lot more of him.


    I agree. And I love the use of the shcool bell in his intro. Total heel. I hope they keep pitting him against mid-level lovable heels (like Eugene) so the crowd will still boo him. This character would not work as good as a face.

    I expect an IC run for Striker soon.
The 5th Horseman
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#33 Posted on 16.5.06 1133.07
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1137.51
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    The Foley angle would've worked a LOT better had Funk been the guy on the receiving end of a beating last week. Had Foley "invited" Funk to a Triple Threat only to beat him down, there'd be motivation behind all of Foley's actions. He was still hurting after Funk no-showed his Hardcore celebration, and was just waiting for the right time to take revenge on Funk and, by extension, all those too-good-to-pay-him-respect ECWers who saw him as a sell-out or a phoney. He brought hardcore wrestlign out of the bingo halls and became the greatest hardcore wrestler ever, and he proved that again at WrestleMania, so he's bigger, badder and better than the disrespectful, braindamaged lumps of ECW, blah blah blah.

I totally agree that it would have been better if they had beat down Terry Funk instead of Tommy Dreamer. It also would have been better if they had done that beat down in Texas this week rather than in California last week. Mick could have grabbed a mic and did the promo about "WHY" during the beatdown and then after the beating while Funk is down on the mat. Then, have Tommy Dreamer show up in the future with his cane or a bat and beat down Edge and Mick as payback for the beating of his mentor Terry Funk. That would also make Dreamer look stronger and more of a threat.

Maybe that wasn't possible because of Funk. Maybe he just couldn't take a convincing beating like that right now and they had to go another way with it.

And, britishiles, they did show the exact same "See No Evil" premier package twice during the show and also a seperate vignette for Kane. I'll be glad when that damn movie flops and they stop shoving it down our throats. Hopefully, it flops enough that Vince stops trying to be a movie producer and spends more time trying to save the quality of his wrestling business. That would also save us from having more movies shoved down our throats in the future.
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#34 Posted on 16.5.06 1138.55
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1140.41
The shilling for See No Evil is nothing new. I remember when No Holds Barred opened and Tito Santana told us that it was a great movie and we should go see it. Arriba!

(This was when I learned to never again listen to Tito Santana's recommendations.)

It's one half retarded and one half hilarous Kane showed up to the premiere in shirtless and in costume. Kane's character in the movie seems to wear clothes but that's Kane's movie character, while the real Kane always walks around in his ring gear? Did he go sans shirt throughout the whole movie and sweat all over the seat?

Line of the premiere was Kurt Angle: "I hid behind Viscera the whole time!"

(edited by John Orquiola on 16.5.06 0939)
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#35 Posted on 16.5.06 1139.17
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1142.58
Umaga: "Samoan Wrecking Machine", "Samoan Smashing Machine", "Samoan Bulldozer"

Joe : Samoan Submission Machine

I think its obvious (to us, or to me, at least) that Umaga is a rip off. But one of the perks of being the #1 company is everything else looks second rate. To the lay-person, after watching Umaga and then tuning into TNA - who ripped off who?

(WWE also stole the Spirit Squad gimmick, but thems the breaks)

Hell, if it wasnt for 10 billion people reminding us every second, one would think that Attitude and "hardcore" wasnt ripped off from ECW. But, without a scorecard, the Internet and The ECW DVD, who would know?

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 16.5.06 1254)
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#36 Posted on 16.5.06 1204.49
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1205.59
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    The shilling for See No Evil is nothing new. I remember when No Holds Barred opened and Tito Santana told us that it was a great movie and we should go see it. Arriba!

    (This was when I learned to never again listen to Tito Santana's recommendations.)

    It's one half retarded and one half hilarous Kane showed up to the premiere in shirtless and in costume. Kane's character in the movie seems to wear clothes but that's Kane's movie character, while the real Kane always walks around in his ring gear? Did he go sans shirt throughout the whole movie and sweat all over the seat?

    Line of the premiere was Kurt Angle: "I hid behind Viscera the whole time!"

    (edited by John Orquiola on 16.5.06 0939)
But but but Angle is Smackdown and Viscera is RAW but but

Also, when was the last time you saw Kane without the crazy contact lenses? Have you ever seen him as KANE without the crazy contact lenses? I couldn't get past that. My world is destroyed.

(Hearing that Angle and Vis hang out is as enjoyable to me as Austin calling up Christian's cel and leaving hilarious voicemails)
flairforthegold13
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#37 Posted on 16.5.06 1210.19
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1211.12
It's confusing, why are people actively rooting for this movie to fail? What do you have against Kane? Dude seems like a pretty solid dude. I hope it does well and it makes a nice little chunk of change for him. We can all say that the promotional push on Raw got old, but it's a movie y'know. They get overhyped. Show Kane some love, dude hasn't won a big match in 7 years and still gets his own movie. That's how you get over, yo.
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#38 Posted on 16.5.06 1224.29
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1225.12
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    It's confusing, why are people actively rooting for this movie to fail? What do you have against Kane? Dude seems like a pretty solid dude. I hope it does well and it makes a nice little chunk of change for him. We can all say that the promotional push on Raw got old, but it's a movie y'know. They get overhyped. Show Kane some love, dude hasn't won a big match in 7 years and still gets his own movie. That's how you get over, yo.
Shhhhhhhhhh.
rinberg
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#39 Posted on 16.5.06 1239.20
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1239.39
    Originally posted by rv581
    I don't entirely disagree with your analysis of Joe & Umaga, but methinks -- based on years of watching Vince McMahon's super-duper creative team packaging & repackaging characters -- that Samoa Joe would immediately be given a new name and a new identity that the WWE deems more marketable, should he arrive in Titan-land.

    The Rock is an exception to a whole lot of rules for a whole host of reasons, but him aside, not too many Pacific Islanders in WWF / E history had much more depth than being an ass-kicking, borderline-savage, hard-headed wrestler. And with Joe not being thought of as a stellar promo-cutting kinda guy, I suspect that an Umaga angle is in his WWE future...

    (Hey, I could be wrong. Maybe Vince will see dollar signs in the "Samoa Joe" name and won't tweak a thing. Based on past examples, I just don't think that's gonna happen.)


Time out: I misread your post to mean that Samoa Joe's recent success was due to Umaga's push. In re-reading what you said, I realized you meant that Umaga's push is due to Samoa Joe's success. *sigh* Except for the fact that rinberg can't read, I agree with you. Vince is pretty limited when it comes to gimmicks for Samoans/Islanders.

Carry on. Nothing further to see here.
Destrucity
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#40 Posted on 16.5.06 1331.52
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1332.02
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    It's confusing, why are people actively rooting for this movie to fail? What do you have against Kane? Dude seems like a pretty solid dude. I hope it does well and it makes a nice little chunk of change for him.
I figure it'll probably do pretty well, actually, and I am normally extremely pessimistic about WWE non-wrestling endeavors. People love gory horror movies these days, and Kane makes an appropriately creepy villain. And the studio has programmed it really well -- the other big openings this weekend are Da Vinci and Over the Hedge, neither of which desensitized-to-violence teen boys will be remotely interested in. If Joey 15-Year-Old wants to sneak into an R-rated movie this weekend, it'll be this one. Plus wrestling and horror movies probably have as much of an audience overlap as anything.
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