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Guru Zim
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#1 Posted on 5.4.06 2319.53
Reposted on: 5.4.13 2320.42
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1747926,00.html

This is an amazingly cool fossil to have found, because it is one of the gaps in the fossil record.
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AWArulz
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#2 Posted on 6.4.06 0409.55
Reposted on: 6.4.13 0410.18
I only urge caution in your acceptance of this in that Nature has kind of jumped ahead on other stuff before and has not always been as pristine in their research.

I cite the Encyclopedia Brittania incident last year,
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/23/britannica_wikipedia_nature_study/), and I seem to recall another major controversy, but cannot locate it.

In any event, I wouldn't hang your hat on this discovery yet - fossils have been faked and later disproven before. They have also been simply mistaken and misinterpreted.
Guru Zim
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#3 Posted on 6.4.06 1102.44
Reposted on: 6.4.13 1103.43
Well, due to the location it was found in, I'm pretty good with ruling out faked fossil.

    The near-pristine fossil was found on Ellesmere Island, Canada, which is 600 miles from the north pole in the Arctic Circle.


I'm not sure why you are referencing Nature, which I presume you mean Nature magazine by. This was

    Scientists from the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia, the University of Chicago, and Harvard University led several expeditions into the inhospitable icy desert to search for the fossils.

    The find is the first complete evidence of an animal that was on the verge of the transition from water to land. "The find is a dream come true," said Ted Daeschler of the Academy of Natural Sciences.


I'm pretty good with those credentials

Guru Zim
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#4 Posted on 6.4.06 1105.17
Reposted on: 6.4.13 1107.27
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    I only urge caution in your acceptance of this in that Nature has kind of jumped ahead on other stuff before and has not always been as pristine in their research.

    I cite the Encyclopedia Brittania incident last year,
    (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/23/britannica_wikipedia_nature_study/), and I seem to recall another major controversy, but cannot locate it.

    In any event, I wouldn't hang your hat on this discovery yet - fossils have been faked and later disproven before. They have also been simply mistaken and misinterpreted.


Also, since you are bringing up the Nature incident - it was done blind. No one was told what sources they were reading, so the Guardian is a bit off on the way they are portraying this as well.

Again though - this isn't even the same issue and I'm not sure why you brought it up here except as an attempt to discredit any science by pointing to some bad science somewhere.
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#5 Posted on 6.4.06 1121.51
Reposted on: 6.4.13 1122.34
Not to speak for anyone, but there is a "feeling" among many in the intellegent design movement that the evolutionists manufacture items such as this and have since the time of Darwin.

Our cable company provides I believe Trinity Broadcasting Network, they have a regular show around 6 pm CDT spent trotting out pseudo-scientists who show "proof" that man and dinosaurs co-existed, blah, blah, blah. It is utterly fascinating to watch in a trainwreck sort of way.

AWArulz
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#6 Posted on 7.4.06 0811.46
Reposted on: 7.4.13 0812.28
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I'm not sure why you are referencing Nature, which I presume you mean Nature magazine by.


You referenced an article refering to the front page of the weekly Nature. All I am saying is that these amazing discoveries have been discredited before. I was not going to reference Piltdown, but that was science for over 40 years - it's a "fact" in my Mom's college textbook. Transitional forms are the darling of those who have faith in the concept of evolution, and I think there's a need for a tremendous amount of proof and multiple instances before I can accept this.

This has been Ted Daeschler's pet project for many, many years, long before he had this "proof", so like every other situation, I want independent proof.

I mean, we had frickin' pictures of the weapon sites in Iraq but haven't found any actual weapons. That, of course, was W's pet project and I think we might agree that some of the data was spun. You mean old Ted, cause he's a SCIENTIST (everyone bow down!), is above that? Clearly, that hasn't always been the way it is.

I take a wait and see attitude on this.
Guru Zim
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#7 Posted on 7.4.06 1127.32
Reposted on: 7.4.13 1127.32
Well, I honestly did go back to find the reference to Nature, I just missed it. Saw it today.

That said, this wasn't in-house investigative journalism by Nature like the wikipedia article, they were just reporting it.

Piltdown hurts, just like the Korean just hurt Stem cell research. Fraud is almost never good anything. That said, there is no reason to assume fraud every time evidence is presented - it should merely go through the questioning that all evidence goes through.

I'm assuming the fact that it is being published now and that they have quotes from guys like Richard Dawkins means that this wasn't found last week, but that it has been around and people have been looking at it. I'm assuming this, because I haven't personally researched this yet.

So yes, point taken. All research should go through peer reviewing. I assumed this had happened.
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