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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - RAW #671 04/3: Raw is Wrestlemania fallout
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Shem the Penman
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#41 Posted on 4.4.06 1138.48
Reposted on: 4.4.13 1139.51
    Originally posted by Destrucity
      You know what I thought was the awesomest thing on Raw? How old school was that Flair/Estrada/Umanga segment?



    Hell, that gimmick's nothing but Kamala 2.0. Estrada was fun, though.
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    #42 Posted on 4.4.06 1210.10
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1211.01
      Originally posted by The Vile1
        Originally posted by Freeway420
          Originally posted by The Vile1
          What would've happened if CM Punk came out in his hometown of Chicago and attacked Flair instead of a returning Jamal? Would people in the front row start banging the security wall to the theme of his music?


        I was telling people I was watching with "If this is CM Punk, I'm giving WWE some money right now."

        And they gave me Jamal.


      It's really just funny isn't it. If you could ever have named a more perfect, opportune, and brilliant way to debut and bring in CM Punk, it would be that one. It would've been that way, and it would've been memorable and significant, and it would probably be the most talked about thing (on the net at least) for weeks. I mean RAW was in Chicago tonight, right? So Punk would've definitely gotten a reaction.



      (edited by The Vile1 on 3.4.06 2233)


    Um, yea . . . except that outside of the IWC/ROH/OVW "purists," no one probably knows (or cares about) CM Punk. And as much as I hate using this word because I think it's silly, especially when used as often and incorrectly as I've seen it on here and other places ...

    CM Punk is waaay too much of a mark for himself.
    Excalibur05
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    #43 Posted on 4.4.06 1247.23
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1248.01
    I liked Estrada, but he talked for too long and didn't say enough. That might work when you're Triple H, but when you're a debuting guy, you've got to come up with some better material if they're going to let you ramble like that.
    JohnHayduke
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    #44 Posted on 4.4.06 1442.05
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1443.11
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
        Originally posted by Duo_Shinigami_1083
        The Spirit Squad, new Tag Team Champs? But which members hold the belts? It can't be all of them!


      Sure it can! Dont you remember when the Freebirds would mix and match who defended thier titles? No? I must be old.


    The Freebirds freak'n rule!

    I like the Spirit Squad but I also fear they may dive into suckiness if they try to be too clever with the gimmick. That leg drop was awesome though!

    I also want to say, I can't recall a single recent case where the push by losing streak has worked. I fear Chavo will be another victim of bad booking. Good luck!

    Jamal is back and feuding with Flair. I hope he doesn't injure Flair. What if he beats Flair does he a push? I really can't see Jamal above anything besides JTTS.

    Carlito... I like him and I don't like him. I want to see what he can do. If Masters is sent down to OVW I would be very happy.

    The only wrestler in the main event I liked was Edge. What does it mean that HHH won that match anyway? Does he get a rematch now?
    JoshMann
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    #45 Posted on 4.4.06 1459.12
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1459.32

      I like the Spirit Squad but I also fear they may dive into suckiness if they try to be too clever with the gimmick.


    Their post-match promo was great because there was the little cheer thing, and then it was everyone mugging for the camera and bouncing around like idiots, and in doing so they nailed it.

    And the important thing is that they look like they're having a ball doing it, and the fact that they're letting their spirit fingers fly like that shows itself and reflects well on all of them.
    The Vile1
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    #46 Posted on 4.4.06 1501.06
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1507.52
      Originally posted by Whattaburger
      Um, yea . . . except that outside of the IWC/ROH/OVW "purists," no one probably knows (or cares about) CM Punk. And as much as I hate using this word because I think it's silly, especially when used as often and incorrectly as I've seen it on here and other places ...

      CM Punk is waaay too much of a mark for himself.


    Um, yea . . . because a repackaged Jamal is so much more smarter and got a much more significant reaction, right?
    People I feel had this same perception of RVD when he first came into WWE, but he killed it pretty quickly.
    CRZ
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    #47 Posted on 4.4.06 1522.39
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1522.52
      Originally posted by The Vile1
      Um, yea . . . because a repackaged Jamal is so much more smarter and got a much more significant reaction, right?
    Apples and pears.

      People I feel had this same perception of RVD when he first came into WWE, but he killed it pretty quickly.
    That you can't distinguish between "ECW in 2001" and "ROH in 2006" is an indicator of how myopic your argument really is.
    JustinShapiro
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    #48 Posted on 4.4.06 1523.13
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1523.13
      Originally posted by mikebuk
      Question - How many times have a dating or married couple held WWF/E titles simultaneously ?

      Not counting anyone like Goldust and Terri who held belts on different occasions.

      Mickie James is dating Kenny, although she is 7 years older than him. Not a problem, just seems unusual.

      Can anyone name many other such partnerships who held gold like this. I will research !


    Heyyy, this is a fun one. Austin and Debra were probably WWF and Women's Champion at the same time in spring '99 but I don't know if they were dating yet. Hunter and Chyna were WWF and IC (gah) Champions at the same time in fall '99 but I don't know if they were still dating then. Hunter and Stephanie were WWF and Women's Champ at the same time in spring '00. Matt Hardy and Lita were tag and Women's Champ in fall '00. Joey Matthews and Christy Hemme were tag and Diva Search champions at the same time in spring '05.
    Destrucity
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    #49 Posted on 4.4.06 1635.44
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1635.56
    I hope everybody is prepared for the fact that if CM Punk does eventually debut and if he's allowed to keep some semblance of his longtime gimmick, he won't be known as "CM Punk," which is the indiest name in indie history.
    The Vile1
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    #50 Posted on 4.4.06 1858.43
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 1859.01
      Originally posted by CRZ
      That you can't distinguish between "ECW in 2001" and "ROH in 2006" is an indicator of how myopic your argument really is.


    In early 2001, ECW went down the tubes shortly before WCW did. They had PPV's on a near monthly or bi-monthly basis, and a one hour show, that you could pick up on DirecTV after TNN gave them the axe. They'd draw fans in the thousands for some of their bigger events and draw about a .22-.25 buyrate consistently before they folded.

    In 2006, ROH continues to grow and get stronger every year. They average about 3 shows every month now. They are expanding their location touring this year, along with holding their very own first show in the UK. While they are small, they draw sell out crowds where ever they go, they broke over 1,500 people for the 4/1 show. No TV or PPV at all like ECW had. But very strong and consistent DVD/video sales.

    So yes I see the difference, by the time ECW folded in 2001, a lot more people were watching them and attending their events then ROH in 2006.

    But when WWE got RVD in 2001, a lot of people said no one would cheer for him outside of ECW fans and internet smarks. He wouldn't be able to get over. I'm simply not going to rule out that Punk wouldn't have gotten no reaction whatsoever had he shown up in Chicago and attacked Flair.
    CRZ
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    #51 Posted on 4.4.06 2004.23
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 2005.06
      Originally posted by The Vile1
      But when WWE got RVD in 2001, a lot of people said no one would cheer for him outside of ECW fans and internet smarks. He wouldn't be able to get over.
    Well, that's baloney. Van Dam's first show was the super-hot kickoff to the Invasion angle and nobody was saying things like "nobody will cheer for Rob van Dam outside of ECW fans and internet smarks" because they were really excited that ECW and WCW were joining forces (although they were also annoyed that Stephanie McMahon walked out at the end of the show).

      I'm simply not going to rule out that Punk wouldn't have gotten no reaction whatsoever had he shown up in Chicago and attacked Flair.
    That's not what you said. YOU said:

      It's really just funny isn't it. If you could ever have named a more perfect, opportune, and brilliant way to debut and bring in CM Punk, it would be that one. It would've been that way, and it would've been memorable and significant, and it would probably be the most talked about thing (on the net at least) for weeks. I mean RAW was in Chicago tonight, right? So Punk would've definitely gotten a reaction.
    ...which I feel is a vast overestimation, not to mention a reckless misread of the idiots in the crowd in Chicago.

    So they decided to debut Osama Armando and Jamal Umaga instead of CM Punk. Wow, let's totally lose our perspective! My righteous indignation knows no bounds! Come on.

    Perhaps the REAL outcry could be aimed at (for instance) whoever thought it'd be a grand idea to have Chavo give his emotional post-match quittin' speech during a commercial break. But I guess Chavo's never been an ROH darling, so screw 'im, eh? He's just exploiting Eddie's death, anyway...
    The Vile1
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    #52 Posted on 4.4.06 2015.20
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 2018.59
    The Heat taping reports indicated Colt Cabana got a big reaction from the Chicago crowd. With that in mind, I do not believe its an overestimation and a misread of the Chicago crowd in attendance at RAW.

    I have a huge problem with the whole Eddie Guerrero business and his exploitation which I have expressed before. What they are doing with Chavo is crap, but WWE is going to continually do this and they aren't stopping it seems.
    Guru Zim
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    #53 Posted on 4.4.06 2114.26
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 2115.48
    I see the repackaged Jamal as a sign that they are actually serious about the wellness program.

    In order to make things work without drugs they are going to need more naturally big guys. This will be a return of the fat guy who can move - your Rikishis, Visceras, etc.
    sergeial
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    #54 Posted on 4.4.06 2127.02
    Reposted on: 4.4.13 2129.01
    Just to throw out my $.02: I usually disagree with Vile1-- we just don't have similar tastes-- and I'm usually a lot happier with the WWE's general direction that most of what I read on this message board; I absolutely loved WM and Raw this week, BUT, I agree with Vile1 about Umaga and CM Punk. Umaga's entrance was the one thing on Raw I was really underwhelmed by. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Punk would have gotten the reaction that RVD got when he debuted. To be honest, I wouldn't care if no-one knew who he was, I'd still be psyched that he was getting his first feud with Flair.

    Keep in mind, he has a reputation as today's 60 minute man, which could be worked into the feud. He has the straight-edge thing, which would be a nice contrast with Flair's legendary hard-partying ways. And he has a feud/alliance with Steamboat in his past, who is right back stage if one wanted to work him into the feud somehow. Anyhow, I think it would have been cool regardless of whether or not the Chicago wankers would have popped for his name. Umaga/Flair is the one thing going on right now that I'm not at all psyched to see at Backlash.
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    #55 Posted on 5.4.06 0158.27
    Reposted on: 5.4.13 0158.55
      Originally posted by The Vile1
      The Heat taping reports indicated Colt Cabana got a big reaction from the Chicago crowd. With that in mind, I do not believe its an overestimation and a misread of the Chicago crowd in attendance at RAW.


    Unless a "Colt Cabana" and/or "Ring of Honor" chant broke out at some point, I'd be willing to bet that it's because he was announced as being from Chicago.
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    #56 Posted on 5.4.06 0235.31
    Reposted on: 5.4.13 0235.48
      Originally posted by sergeial
      Keep in mind, he has a reputation as today's 60 minute man, which could be worked into the feud. He has the straight-edge thing, which would be a nice contrast with Flair's legendary hard-partying ways. And he has a feud/alliance with Steamboat in his past, who is right back stage if one wanted to work him into the feud somehow.


    All of which would have to be explained in great detail to 90% of the fans watching WWE in order for it to make any sense to them at all. His reputation is known only to ROH and indy marks, and the Steamboat thing would probably be known to even less. It would've been nice to see a CM Punk debut Monday ngiht, but I'm not losing sleep over it. Besides, he hardly needs a goofy Cuban manager to get him heat.
    sergeial
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    #57 Posted on 5.4.06 1244.40
    Reposted on: 5.4.13 1244.46
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
        Originally posted by sergeial
        Keep in mind, he has a reputation as today's 60 minute man, which could be worked into the feud. He has the straight-edge thing, which would be a nice contrast with Flair's legendary hard-partying ways. And he has a feud/alliance with Steamboat in his past, who is right back stage if one wanted to work him into the feud somehow.


      All of which would have to be explained in great detail to 90% of the fans watching WWE in order for it to make any sense to them at all.


    I think he would just have to tell them...

      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      His reputation is known only to ROH and indy marks, and the Steamboat thing would probably be known to even less. It would've been nice to see a CM Punk debut Monday ngiht, but I'm not losing sleep over it.


    Well, me neither. I just wanted to point out that even someone not half as into ROH as Vile1 might agree that Umaga was quite a letdown, and CM Punk in that spot would have been cool.

      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Besides, he hardly needs a goofy Cuban manager to get him heat.


    No doubt. I meant CM Punk instead of both Osama and Umaga, not in Umaga's place with Osama managing. Punk hardly needs a mouthpiece. In fact, I think that's why we got Umaga: they had a mouthpiece they wanted to use, and thought "who would work as a mute? Oh, we haven't used a wild samoan gimmick in a while..."
    oldschoolhero
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    #58 Posted on 5.4.06 1258.22
    Reposted on: 5.4.13 1259.01
    So they have the guy come and out start talking about federations and feuds and previous history that a large percentage of the crowd will have no idea even exist. It'd bomb. Trying to make the CM Punk that got over in ROH into a major star in WWE using the same methods isn't going to work. I'm sure it would've been cool to see him debut against Flair, but them choosing to debut a different set of talent on Monday night has nothing to do with whatever the fed has planned for him. It's a weak logic process which reads as yet another excuse to take needless potshots at Vince et al. If you wanna moan about Raw, there are PLENTY of other targets. God wrestling at Backlash, anyone?
    sergeial
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    #59 Posted on 5.4.06 1437.59
    Reposted on: 5.4.13 1438.13
    Actually, Umaga was the only thing I particularly disliked on Raw this week. Not so much that I was thinking that if they were going to have Flair feud with a call-up they could have picked someone better--that didn't occur to me until Vile1 pointed it out, though I agree with him.

    One of the things that was so fun about Raw was that every single top guy (mostly babyfaces, too)--RVD, Flair, HBK, Edge, HHH-- came out to give a promo expressing an interest in chasing Cena. It was quite a let-down to have Flair sidetracked from the chase for something so... lackluster.

    I found Vince's material reasonably amusing (particularly Shane and Shawn's reactions to it).
    oldschoolhero
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    #60 Posted on 5.4.06 1442.35
    Reposted on: 5.4.13 1443.02
    I found Vince's ramblings just 24 hours after taking a beating that could easily be used to write a full-time wrestler off of TV to be ridiculous and totally unnecessary. Shawn destroyed him at WrestleMania, there was no need for the feud to continue-particularly with the borderline-retarded advertising of God as Shawn's partner. If that didn't get you rolling your eyes more than the debut of a tried-and-tested heat-getter (big nasty heel with shit-stirring mouthpiece)....well, more power to you.
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