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24.10.07 0311
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - WrestleMania 22 Q'n'D results - and discussion
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Zeruel
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#41 Posted on 3.4.06 0947.07
Reposted on: 3.4.13 0947.59
Hey, Gater and especially OldSchoolHero, you two better play nice or you won't be able to play anymore. Take it to private messages or email if you want, but no more friend bashing/name calling in public, ok?
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#42 Posted on 3.4.06 1052.50
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1059.02
The matches that I expected to deliver (Money in the Bank, World Title match) did deliver, and with Foley-Edge, as well as Vince-Shawn far exceeding expectations, I have to rank this Mania up there as one of best I have seen. Maybe because I was not really expecting anything, because it looked weak on paper. But it delivered. Loved Dibiase/Eugene skit too!
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#43 Posted on 3.4.06 1103.44
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1059.03
WM 22 was pretty good. Anytime the crowd is pro-Mickie James, thats a cool crowd.

(image removed)
rv581
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#44 Posted on 3.4.06 1103.50
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1107.26
In the what's-in-it-for-me department... how will the results from WM make my TV viewing any more interesting?

Not trying to be a smartass cynic, but from a plot-development standpoint -- particularly on the Raw side -- I don't see much to go on that's new or exciting.

Maybe I'm wrong...
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#45 Posted on 3.4.06 1110.04
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1111.20
RVD now has a guaranteed title shot that he can spring any time he wants. John Cena has cleanly beat HHH, which will drastically alter the dynamic of their feud. Trish is no longer the Women's champ after fifteen straight months. Carlito is on the verge of turning face.

And if that's not enough, Vince took one mother of a beating and is likely to disappear for a while.
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#46 Posted on 3.4.06 1110.05
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1114.54
I actually thought Finlay was awesome in the MITB match as it seemed like he was doing most of the traffic control for everyone inside the ring. And Shelton was ON!

I DEMAND the the dvd includes a "making of/behind the scenses" featurette for the Cena/HHH entrances, especially the planning session where those ideas first came up...
XPacArmy
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#47 Posted on 3.4.06 1116.36
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1119.54
I didn't see Wrestlemania, come someone explain to me the hHh and Cena intros. Everyone seems to be making a big about them.
Torchslasher
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#48 Posted on 3.4.06 1118.49
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1123.58
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Oh get off your high horse you big baby. You spend half the time talking about how the fed aren't booking properly, then the other half about how cool the heels are and how you'd pop for the win despite them being booked solely as heels and most people seeing them that way. And THEN you'd insist they STAY heels, despite you popping for them, because if they turned face they'd be "lame". It's the same kind of thinking that's let to Cena's bizarre up-and-down, side-to-side reactions and booking for the past twelve months. It's the same kind of of dumbass faux-smark fanboy crap that saw people labelling Jericho as stale not two months after he turned face in 2004 because suddenly everyone was cheering for him. I have no problem with cheering a heel whom you want to see turn face, but we know that's not the case here.

    So yeah, you and your friends are dumb. You want to cheer them solely for being heels, which is totally counterproductive and neuters the characters and storyline the company and the wrestlers work hard to create. And all for no other reason than its KEWL to hate on faces.

    Oh, and "hypocritically judging from the IWC"? Gime a fuckin' break. If anything I'd advocate less smart-ass I-net shit, as all it does is lead to moronic things like an entire crowd cheering for HHH to win the belt just because it's in vogue to dislike the WWE's current favoured main-eventer.

    (edited by oldschoolhero on 3.4.06 0545)


I promise not to name-call, but you have got to be kidding me OSH? You are telling Gater and his "dumb" friends why they are cheering who they are. You don't know them, so it would be better to talk about in general terms rather than attacking people you specifically don't know.

There is a lot of truth to your assertions that SOME of the fans who hate on Cena do so because other people do. I also agree that it can be completely counter-productive and cause entire storylines to shift to places you don't necessarily want (like me cheering for HHH to win the World title even though I'm not a big fan of Trips).

You know why I hate Cena and was cheering HHH? Because I don't believe Cena is a good wrestler, and especially not worthy of holding the top title on Raw. His whole persona comes off as phony to me. He is just not a good wrestler, unless he has someone who can carry him (like, say, HHH for instance).

Personally, I thought the crowd last night made the World Title match better for the mere fact that they were cheering and booing submission holds and punches. PUNCHES! I would argue that any crowd that is that electric in any capacity for the simplest of moves should not be discouraged ever.

Oh, and as for Wrestlemania...it was the best one since X-7. The bad stuff was short, and the crowd made the night feel...um...big time.

Sign of the night- "It's Still Real To Me Damn It!"
oldschoolhero
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#49 Posted on 3.4.06 1120.07
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1123.59
Hunter rose from the stage sitting on a throne and wearing an iron crown, loincloth, and animal-fur shoulder-wrap. He also had a Thor-like sledgehammer, and his bottle of mineral water. All whilst Motorhead played a nice new li'l King Of Kings intro.

Cena, meanwhile, had a mini-video about Chicago's famous gangsters, which was followed by old-school black cars coming to the ring carrying tommy-gun wielding gangster types. Then Cena came out in a black raincoat toting his own tommy-gun, which he fired dramatically into the air.

It was fairly amusing, and certainly a welcome touch of variety.

EDIT: Fair enough, Torch. It was perhaps uncalled of for me to single out Gater here. But his statement seemed indicative of an intensely annoying trend amongst "in the know" fans, one which undermined a lot of what the fed tries to do. This is made even worse by the fact that many of the people who do this will then criticise creative for bad booking, despite them making the job infinitely harder.

Honestly, I think it's disrespectful for fans to turn up to a show and say "hey, you know what? I'm gonna boo the fuck outta that guy tonight for no real reason!". Sure, you paid your ticket money, but it's childish behaviour that smacks of egocentric elitism. Of course the crowd CAN react like that. but that's not an automatic decree that they should. It can also ruin the show for the much larger audience watching at home, who paid money for the experience just like the live crowd did.

And last night's match didn't bother me, really. I did like seeing the assholish booing of Cena silenced by his victory, but I wouldn't have cried about it had HHH won. It just strikes me as absurd that people would cheer a man, would effectively turn him face, and then bitch about WWE ten minutes later for failing to provide coherent weekly booking. How are they supposed to plan these shows in advance if they can't predict just who the fans are going to cheer and boo? It's the equivalent of Othello's big stage monologue being interrupted with a spectator chant of "You're A Douchebag (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)".

(edited by oldschoolhero on 3.4.06 0930)
JoshMann
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#50 Posted on 3.4.06 1222.04
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1223.51

    It's the equivalent of Othello's big stage monologue being interrupted with a spectator chant of "You're A Douchebag (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)".


Bah, Iago was the REAL worker in that feud and carried that guy on his back. :-P
flairforthegold13
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#51 Posted on 3.4.06 1307.10
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1310.30
If I can throw in my two cents, I actually LIKE HHH as a performer and generally root for him to win. I've liked him since he debut. So, it's not like it's inconceivable for people to like him.

Didn't see the show, but liked the booking.

Cena will inevitably go heel. This isn't X-Pac heat. I don't get why everyone is so upset that the guy is a babyface who gets boo'ed. It's not like they're LOSING business from it. People act like 'how dare they push Cena. The fans boo him.' Well, they also pay to see him. That's the mark of a wrestler. Thisn't Rocky Maivia heat where half the arena goes to the bathroom. It's like the smarks are so upset McMahon won't turn him heel, that they treat him as this cancer on the money. I hate Cena as a wrestler, I like his character in the sense that he's a poseur who I want to see beat. That's why I tune in.

I'm about to hit lunch but...

Good for Edge, hopefully he'll stay in the title picture.
SD match was short, Orton should have won, wonder how Angle is feeling these days, Rey is a feel good story and good for him, but honestly, no one cares. He'll last a month. And again, why do we care if they book SD as the #2 brand. It's their company. I don't like SD any less just because Vince McMahon does. We're not the Board of Directors, people need to chill.

RVD huh? Wow, guess he's finally gonna win the belt.
Glad JBL won.
Love Mickie, and the reason Trish was booed is b/c Mickie IS the sympathetic character in this storyline. She was jilted and also, wrestling fans love lesbians.
Poor Booker T, but he'll be fine.

Seemed interesting, don't really care to watch it now, but I'm excited for Raw tonight, so all in all, not bad.
CRZ
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#52 Posted on 3.4.06 1338.04
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1341.09
    Originally posted by Pimpstress
      Originally posted by The Sham
      Fun fact only your sister could pick up on: The white material used in Rey's mask wasn't just white this time-- it was a Louis Vuitton pattern, i.e. with the LV logo all over it.
    You are officially my hero. I thought I was the only one who picked up on the LV pattern. I was screaming at the TV last night going "Holy shit! First he comes out looking like one of the Village People on Mayan holiday and now he's got the LV Murakami mask." Ladies and gentlemen, Rey-Rey is the first ever Metrosexual champion. My boyfriend didn't understand my shock at the LV mask, but at least someone else picked up on it and I wasn't seeing things.
I don't want to one-up The Sham, but my wife noticed this first at the Hall of Fame ceremony, when he ALSO had a LV mask. She said, "ah, he has his FORMAL mask on tonight."

On the other hand, I was way too busy trying to process that suit to even notice the mask.

(Yes, I only comment on this stuff.)
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#53 Posted on 3.4.06 1340.37
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1343.20
I guessed "Gucci" incorrectly, which is kinda close since LVMH makes Gucci, dont they? I used to know that.
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#54 Posted on 3.4.06 1350.53
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1354.19
I haven't seen the glory of this in full video yet, but here is a screenshot (img153.imageshack.us) of HHH's intro. Yes, this really happened.
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#55 Posted on 3.4.06 1357.57
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1358.41
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Honestly, I think it's disrespectful for fans to turn up to a show and say "hey, you know what? I'm gonna boo the fuck outta that guy tonight for no real reason!". Sure, you paid your ticket money, but it's childish behaviour that smacks of egocentric elitism. Of course the crowd CAN react like that. but that's not an automatic decree that they should. It can also ruin the show for the much larger audience watching at home, who paid money for the experience just like the live crowd did.



"..for no reason!"? Are you out of your fucking mind?

People around here shit on The Boogeyman, Mark Henry, Gene Snitsky, Chris Masters, Viscera... the list goes on and on, for no reason, but that's OK in your book, I suppose, because they aren't Cena, who doeasn't deserve that kind of reaction.

Bullshit.

Cena can't wrestle. He's a brawler, and not really even good at that either. The fans in the live audience sees this and reacts accordingly. Seeing him with the belt, when it's obvious that he doesn't deserve it, makes them want to boo him the fuck out of the building. This isn't just normal heal heat booing either, they really don't want to see him with that belt.

We went to a local bar to see the show, because it's a lot more fun to see it with a ton of strangers then sitting at home by our selves. If any of you ever want that 'live feeling' while watching PPVs, you should do this as well, it makes them better. Anyways, the majority of the crowd was anti-Cena at the bar, just like on the television. When Cena won, a few people actually threw balled up napkins at the screens, which I thought was pretty funny. This old guy, probably in his fifties, loudly said "Why does that asshole keep winning?" a few tables away from us. At the table right behind us, I heard a female say "Why does that guy win all the time when the people he's fighting against are better then he is? Triple H should have won that fight."

Just because the guy is the 'Good Guy', doesn't mean we have to automaticly love him and cheer for him. If he can't do his job, they need to put someone in his place who can. ANYONE. For the past few years, the hardcore wrestling fans have crapped all over Helmsley, but one thing they all have to admit, is that he can get his opponent over with a crowd. Last night, this did not happen. Who's to blame now?

What's I find disrespectful is that Cena STILL has that belt around his waist, while Edge (Who was totally over as 'The Champ') was stripped of the title. What I find disrespectful is that this company is ignoring the majority of it's fanbase, and keeping Cena with the belt. What I find disrespectful is that a publicly traded company is doing business that HURTS it's shareholders profits by allowing a guy who is unpopular with it's fanbase to carry the company into another year.

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero

    How are they supposed to plan these shows in advance if they can't predict just who the fans are going to cheer and boo? It's the equivalent of Othello's big stage monologue being interrupted with a spectator chant of "You're A Douchebag (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)".


Firstly, I can't believe you're comparing wrestling to Shakespeare... I love it!

Secondly, if every time a guy comes out infront of a live audience and gets shitted on, I'm pretty sure the same thing is going to happen again the next time he comes out, and the next time he comes out, and the next time after that. If you have a television sho, stage show, ANY type of entertainment show and the majority of the audience is against the star of the show... you get rid of that guy and get someone else. They did it on Babylon 5 replacing Michael O'Haire with Bruce Boxleitner and ratings improved for the show. Every few years, SNL replaces people because they suck at the job (Remember Brad Hall? Probably not...). Wrestling, lately anyway, doesn't seem to understand this concept. They're shoving this asshole at us and we're just supposed to like him because they say so? Fuck no! If he was any good in the ring, I'd think about it. If he had something to offer me as a performer, I'd consider getting behind him.

He's a character that isn't popular at all to the wrestling fan, but the company keeps puting him front a center thinking it'll stick. What the feels like, is that the WWE doesn't give a shit about it's fans. What they're seemingly trying to do, is reel in newer fans that ordinarily wouldn't watch wrestling, and hope they see John Cena on the screen and think "HEY! I'm gonna watch this for THAT guy." but what's happening is that the long term fans... IE: the ones you are making money from right now, are shitting on it.

Back to the predicting what an audience is gonna do part, with the past months of having Cena getting booed out of the building, did you really think that it would be different last night? What about tonight? Maybe tonight's the night they don't jeer the fuck out of him?

I doubt it highly.

Call me Nostradamus!
MonteCarl
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#56 Posted on 3.4.06 1431.44
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1433.17
Love him or hate him, there's no denying that fans are always in to a John Cena match. The crowd is always electric during his matches with alternating chants and cheers and boos. When was the last time you've seen a crowd so in to any match? It's such a great an interesting dynamic and that's what makes a John Cena match fun. People haven't been this in to cheering or booing somebody so wholeheartedly as they have in years. I think it's great.
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#57 Posted on 3.4.06 1449.09
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1454.13
    Originally posted by Josh
    Also, easily the best women's match in WM history.


People keep saying this, but Trish vs. Victoria vs. Jazz at 19 was really good.

    Originally posted by Matt
    The crowd booed Shawn's cruelty until he set up the table spot.


They booed the fact that he was going to do something cruel but then held up at the last second.

    Originally posted by Torchslasher
    Oh, and as for Wrestlemania...it was the best one since X-7


Not counting 19-21.

    Originally posted by Cerebus
    What I find disrespectful is that a publicly traded company is doing business that HURTS it's shareholders profits by allowing a guy who is unpopular with it's fanbase to carry the company into another year.


They're not turning him for their shareholders. He's the #1 merchandise seller by a huge margin.

    Originally posted by MonteCarl
    Love him or hate him, there's no denying that fans are always in to a John Cena match. The crowd is always electric during his matches with alternating chants and cheers and boos. When was the last time you've seen a crowd so in to any match? It's such a great an interesting dynamic and that's what makes a John Cena match fun. People haven't been this in to cheering or booing somebody so wholeheartedly as they have in years. I think it's great.


Yep.
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#58 Posted on 3.4.06 1454.08
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1458.03
Tag Title Match: Thought for sure we'd get a title change here. Sadly, methinks they'll now go the "superteam" route to eventually unseat the champs. I can dig Carlito as a face.

MITB: Finlay was definitely doing some directing here. Notice how he always happened to hold the ladders for big spots. I actually called the Side Effect off the ladder seconds ahead of time. Voted for Flair to win. Glad to see I'm not alone in wishing Black Lesnar wasn't in the match.

JBL/Benoit: I'm in no way JBL's biggest fan, but that's the right booking. Now onto Benoit vs Rey. Now, could someone please burn Benoit's hideous yellow costume?

Foley/Edge: At first I thought Foley had really packed on the extra pounds, until the unveiling of the barbwire jacket. My personal most cringe-inducing moment was the one thumbtack piercing Edge's shoulder with blood dripping from his tattoo (being recently tattooed myself). Anyone notice Edge's right eye being completely messed up at the end? Awesome to hear Joey Styles' voice on a Wrestlemania broadcast.

Boogeyman/Booker & Sharmell: Three years ago, one of these individuals was main eventing Wrestlemania. Sigh.

Women's Title: I refused to be disappointed in this match. And Psycho Mickie brought the goods. But um ... now what?

Casket Match: I was starting to fall asleep. True story. I cry foul at the lack of special FX entrance from Taker.

Vince/HBK: Of course, Shawn HAD to play superhuman and take on five guys all by himself (would've been neat to see, say, Stone Cold come in to deliver some Stunners and help him clean house), but this match was all about Vince taking a beating. Picture perfect elbow from the ladder, but I was actually expecting the ladder splash he busted out at Mania 10. Fun brawl, right ending.

Triple Threat: Rey's theme blows. Orton didn't win, so I'm happy. Nice touch with one man preventing the referee seeing the tapout from the ankle lock. At least it puts over the hold as still being deadly, which can end a match just about anytime.

Pillow Fight: Yep, a glorified catfight between two models is the semi main event to the biggest show of the year. Six words to resume my thoughts: back body drop on a bed.

Cena/HHH: My night was made when I saw supposed indy darling CM Punk ... wielding a tommy gun and looking sneaky. The entrances were a unique touch, but I have trouble associating a guy like Cena to italian stereotypical gangsterism. Funny to see Trips tap out once again, but you know it's just delaying the inevitable. I actually expected him to grab the big foam sledgehammer or the little plastic crown and hit Cena in the head with it. Nice touch with the japanese intros by Lillian.

Signs Of The Night:

Beef Jerky: (package of jerky) - Beefy Jerk: (picture of JBL)

It's Still Real To Me, Dammit!

- The set just looked odd. You could barely see the graphics. When in doubt, bust out the big-ass screen like they've done before. I miss the video floor they've used at Mania XX and SNME.

- Once again, the annual "someone walks backstage and meets various people" segment makes the show worthwhile. I'm gonna buy this DVD only to see Ted Dibiase, Eugene, Moolah & Mae Young, Snitsky & Goldust dressed as Oprah; all in the same picture.

- Odd to see Hogan's picture up there with the rest of the roster's banners. Sort of implied he'd show up, but he never did.

- Disappointing, yes, but they handled Bret's absence just right. No need to make a huge show out of it, just mention he didn't wanna show and leave it at that. Funny sight seeing the Blackjacks hugging Vickie Guerrero as if they were the closest of friends.

(edited by JST on 3.4.06 1559)
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#59 Posted on 3.4.06 1500.04
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1505.15
It doesn't matter whether John Cena is a good wrestler, what matters is whether John Cena is an interesting wrestler.

WWE made the right call last night. Ever since Cena debuted in 2002, and even during his time as the Prototype, he has been one of the WWE's best developing talents, and last night - moreso than when he beat JBL last year - was the culmination of Cena's rise to the top of WWE.

It is WWE's job to please its fans, but arena crowds - especially for WM which will sell out no matter what - are different each night. If you look at the bigger picture, it's the ratings, the merchandise, the movies, and other aspects that really determine whether or not somebody should win or lose a match.

What we're seeing right now is equilibrium. I get the feeling that, while WWE loves the arena reactions as of late, they are pushing back, and regaining control. While ratings dictate the success of TV shows, it is still up to the studios and artists to control their product and it is the fans' decsision whether to enjoy it or not.

Regardless of how the crowd was going to treat Cena, they are still going with his momentum and positioning him at the top of the company. Why? Because he's young and engaging for the audience, and right now is his time.
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#60 Posted on 3.4.06 1510.10
Reposted on: 3.4.13 1514.46
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    They booed the fact that he was going to do something cruel but then held up at the last second.


They were also booing him for not superkicking Vince nad putting him away. He was prolonging the attack to the point that the sentiment began to turn, then folks began to cheer for a big stunt. Then when he did the chop, the place popped.
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