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The 7 - Football - Seattle should be ashamed!
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JustinShapiro
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#21 Posted on 6.2.06 0030.43
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0031.09
Asinine as this must sound, I wish Ben had played a better game. If they gave a Conn Smythe Award for playoff MVP, that would easily be Ben. But no one's going to put him in the class of Tom Brady just yet, not after that pass at the goal line. His stats were horrible, but he made some great plays -- the line of scrimmage tiptoe bomb to Ward foremostly, but also some runs and throwing an awesome block on El's TD pass.

OTOH, we've been waiting all playoffs for Parker to launch one, or even perhaps average more than 2 yards per run, and son of a bitch if he didn't.


    Holy Shit! All this is missing is Kurt Russell wearing an eyepatch.


Basically it's like the first ten minutes of Dawn of the Dead (2004), with black & gold local-yokels and Univ. of Pitt dingbat assholes instead of zombies. Nevertheless, I AM THE CHAMPIONS MY FRIEND.
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#22 Posted on 6.2.06 0052.37
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0052.43
    Originally posted by cfgb
    There were 2 calls during the game that I, and the people I was with at the bar disagreed with.

    1) The offesive penalty that was called against the Seahawks during the Touchdown That Never Was. He barely touched the defenseman as he went to catch the ball.

    2) The 3rd and short run by Big Ben where he was tackled at the end. Replays showed time after time the ball did NOT at any time pass the goal line until Ben blatantly moved it over the line. If that decision is reversed, Pittsburgh settles for a Field Goal.


1) The Seahawk receiver pushed (touched?) the Steeler defender right in the middle of the chest to provide separation for the TD catch. Five feet directly in front of the zebra. I'd allow that it was something of a touch foul, but there's no way the striped shirt can overlook that one. At best, I think that's one that people admire the receiver for pulling a 'veteran move' if they get away with something like that (which often happens - bad luck for Seattle it was in plain sight)

2) My view was that Ben's right hand (glove), which was cradling the ball, broke the front edge of the goal line by 2-3 inches or so just before the hit by a Seattle defender pushed him back. Although Ben stretched the ball fully over the line after the play was over, all you have to do is get the ball to break the front edge of the white goal line (not fully over the line, into the green end zone). I thought it was a touchdown, certainly nothing that conclusively showed that it was not, which would be needed to overturn the call on the field. (And I gotta believe Cowher would have gone for it on 4th down from the 3-inch line)

The call I thought was weak-to-borderline from the officials was the holding call that negated a Seattle first and goal from the 1 yard line, and eventually led to a missed 50-yard FG when it was still 14-10. But while the officiating did them no favors, the 'Hawks lost the game all on their own when they dominated the first quarter, holding Pittsburgh without a first down yet only leading 3-0. Rouen punting ball after ball into the end zone was brutal. I predict big business for Seattle area Best Buys tomorrow from fans needing new TV sets.
Joseph Ryder
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#23 Posted on 6.2.06 0207.14
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0207.15
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    1) The Seahawk receiver pushed (touched?) the Steeler defender right in the middle of the chest to provide separation for the TD catch. Five feet directly in front of the zebra. I'd allow that it was something of a touch foul, but there's no way the striped shirt can overlook that one. At best, I think that's one that people admire the receiver for pulling a 'veteran move' if they get away with something like that (which often happens - bad luck for Seattle it was in plain sight)

    2) My view was that Ben's right hand (glove), which was cradling the ball, broke the front edge of the goal line by 2-3 inches or so just before the hit by a Seattle defender pushed him back. Although Ben stretched the ball fully over the line after the play was over, all you have to do is get the ball to break the front edge of the white goal line (not fully over the line, into the green end zone). I thought it was a touchdown, certainly nothing that conclusively showed that it was not, which would be needed to overturn the call on the field. (And I gotta believe Cowher would have gone for it on 4th down from the 3-inch line)

    The call I thought was weak-to-borderline from the officials was the holding call that negated a Seattle first and goal from the 1 yard line, and eventually led to a missed 50-yard FG when it was still 14-10. But while the officiating did them no favors, the 'Hawks lost the game all on their own when they dominated the first quarter, holding Pittsburgh without a first down yet only leading 3-0. Rouen punting ball after ball into the end zone was brutal. I predict big business for Seattle area Best Buys tomorrow from fans needing new TV sets.


Exactly, exactly, exactly. And on point #2, had the ref said that Ben did NOT cross the plane, and Cowher challenged, the ref would need irrefutable evidence that Ben DID cross the plane to overturn it. Since Ben cradled the ball in the way he did, no such evidence existed so it really just came down to the very first call by the ref. There was nothing to see there to turn it over either way.
SEADAWG
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#24 Posted on 6.2.06 0242.55
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0243.10
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5310192

I don't agree at all with the junk about Pittsburgh not deserving to win, but this guy runs down many of the "questionable" calls. I thought they were awful and it hurt the game for me. It just sucked all the way around... Seattle for obvious reasons, and the Steelers, through no fault of their own, having the shitty refs taint their win.

Haha, "taint".
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#25 Posted on 6.2.06 0401.32
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0402.15
The officiating crew should've gotten the MVP award because they definitely won the game for the Steelers. Horrible penalties called there. Whatever happened to taking a step back and letting the teams play the game? I don't remember any other games where I've seen a QB get penalized for making a tackle. Not to mention multiple plays where the defense was clearly offsides yet the refs refused to call it and watched the QB get sacked for a huge loss. Is there some new NFL policy that says that where you are down doesn't matter as much as where you place the ball after the play? If so, you can't fault Big ben for taking advantage of it...

Seriously, Seattle should've had the game -- and if there hadn't been one TD taken away and another one given, it would've had a much different ending. Even with Seattle blowing it a the end of the first half. End of story...
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#26 Posted on 6.2.06 0417.01
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0417.07
I don't even watch on a normal basis nor did I have a favorite, but I sat down and got pissed off at all the bad calls. I do think the Steelers were more together and that they would've edged out the Seahawks but I'll never know because the refs gift-wrapped 14 points or so for Pittsburgh.

Ben was over the line mid-air but he got knocked behind it and then landed. Then he pushed it over. They replayed it a hundred times so it was pretty fucking clear.
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#27 Posted on 6.2.06 0421.27
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0422.26
    Originally posted by SEADAWG
    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5310192

    I don't agree at all with the junk about Pittsburgh not deserving to win, but this guy runs down many of the "questionable" calls. I thought they were awful and it hurt the game for me. It just sucked all the way around... Seattle for obvious reasons, and the Steelers, through no fault of their own, having the shitty refs taint their win.

    Haha, "taint".

Yup. One of the local columnists had mentioned that the Seahawks, going into this game, were pretty much outright pissed over the way that the supposedly non-biased Super Bowl was so heavily Steelers. Even the local coverage largely ignored them.

I'm sure that having this "the world is against us," idea in their heads only made things worse for them the refs started making all these questionable calls that negated every big play the Seahawks made.
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#28 Posted on 6.2.06 0844.34
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0845.11
    Originally posted by AngryJohnny
    Ben was over the line mid-air but he got knocked behind it and then landed. Then he pushed it over. They replayed it a hundred times so it was pretty fucking clear.


The EDGE of the ball only has to cross the FRONT EDGE of the goal-line. I didn't think it was a TD (made more clear in that the ref was running in to spot the ball got HALFWAY THERE then signaled touchdown) but, like Joseph Ryder said a couple a posts above, I don't think you could CONCLUSIVELY say it either way. Holmgren did say that they were telling him from the booth it shouldn't have been a touchdown.

As far as D-Jack's non-TD, when Steve Young and Michael Irvin are complaining at the half that it should've been a TD, that's good enough for me.

Congrats to the Steelers anyway. In a game with few big plays, the Steelers made the three biggest. I don't think the better team won, but I think the team that played better did.
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#29 Posted on 6.2.06 0903.58
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0905.10
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    I didn't think it was a TD (made more clear in that the ref was running in to spot the ball got HALFWAY THERE then signaled touchdown)

YES. The way I saw it, the ref got closer to see whether or not it was in, saw Roethlisberger had pushed the ball across the goalline, and called the TD. When the play was reviewed, it became obvious that he pushed the ball across the line after the play, but at the same time, there wasn't enough evidence to warrant reversing the call because it STILL looked like Roethlisberger may have made it an inch or two across the line before being pushed back.

Basically, as another poster said earlier in this thread, it came down to the ref's first call, whatever it may have been, being impossible to overturn under the standard of review for instant replay. If you ask me, they need to get rid of the "indisputable proof" standard. Just review it as if you were watching it for the first time. Coaches can only get 2 failed challenges per game as it is, so it's not like the game is going to get that bogged down with unnecessary challenges.

- StingArmy
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#30 Posted on 6.2.06 0941.31
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0943.53

As a longsuffering Steelers fan, I must say this is the wierdest moment of my life. I have NO IDEA how to act. It's weird not being the scruffy underdog for once. I'm happy, but kinda freaked out.

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#31 Posted on 6.2.06 0954.59
Reposted on: 6.2.13 0955.00
Concerning the Roethlisberger TD. The left end was NOT in the end zone. The replay from the back of the endzone clearly shows that the ball is pointed down toward the ground and back towards R-berger.

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#32 Posted on 6.2.06 1114.38
Reposted on: 6.2.13 1116.52
I never bought into the idea of East Coast Media Bias until the two weeks leading up to this game. Watching that football game was like watching Fox News' coverage of the Republican National Convention. Take out the game for a second-from the moment the AFC Championship game ended, the NFL and the national media decided the story was going to be Jerome Bettis Goes Home. The Seahawks were just the pawn that was going to get them to their Hollywood Ending.

What were the two big stories before the game?

1. Detroit native Jerome Bettis (who is from Detroit) goes to the Super Bowl being held in Detroit (which is Jerome Bettis' hometown).

2. Jerramy Stevens dares to say that he thinks his team will win the Super Bowl, to which Joey Porter takes exception, and tastes blood, or something.

The national media couldn't be bothered to get up from their free buffets all week to *find* another story. From the coverage I saw, you'd have thought the team that went 13-3, won 11 straight games, was its conference's #1 seed, and had the NFL MVP would have been the Steelers, and the Seahawks were the scrappy underdog that were just happy to be there. The Seahawks weren't sexy. The Seahawks weren't a name. And a such, the media fell back on its laurels and went to the Hollywood Story, and we'll be damned if the GAME will disrupt that.

And from the first moment of ABC's coverage, that story held true. Those little vignettes they did with players holding the Super Bowl trophy? All Steelers in the first half. They didn't even bother showing a Seahawk until they did the montage in the second half, and then a lone Matt Hasselbeck promo in the third quarter. Then, as the clock wound down we got Jerome Bettis' smiling mug hugging the trophy in the final promo of the evening.

The whole thing just bugged me. And then you add in the questionable officiating, and the whole thing leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. And I'm not even a Seahawks fan.

And the commercials sucked, too.
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#33 Posted on 6.2.06 1127.36
Reposted on: 6.2.13 1129.01
    Originally posted by that bitter article guy
    The Steelers took quick advantage of their enhanced field position and just like that it was 21-10 Pittsburgh when it should have been 17-14 Seattle.


I always hate shit like this. When they recalled the Seattle pass that would've given them first and goal, how can you be so sure that it "would've been" a touchdown from there? Nobody has ever fumbled or been intercepted past the 10 yard line?? Basically, you can bash the calls all you want, but there's also no way of telling if Seattle would've WON the game if not for those calls. Because - guess what - we'll never know! Argue Big Ben's call all you want....how do you know he wouldn't have scored on 4th and 3? We don't. You can't discount a Steeler win because of bad calls.

PS: I agree with the Ben call, I disagree with the rest of them.

(edited by FurryHippie on 6.2.06 0927)
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#34 Posted on 6.2.06 1128.49
Reposted on: 6.2.13 1129.02
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by AngryJohnny
      Ben was over the line mid-air but he got knocked behind it and then landed. Then he pushed it over. They replayed it a hundred times so it was pretty fucking clear.


    The EDGE of the ball only has to cross the FRONT EDGE of the goal-line. I didn't think it was a TD (made more clear in that the ref was running in to spot the ball got HALFWAY THERE then signaled touchdown) but, like Joseph Ryder said a couple a posts above, I don't think you could CONCLUSIVELY say it either way. Holmgren did say that they were telling him from the booth it shouldn't have been a touchdown.
You can see the ball land UNDER him UNDER the shoulders, and the shoulders land just short of the line.

As for the Seahawks' non-TD... just more proof that the refs were full of shit.
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#35 Posted on 6.2.06 1138.37
Reposted on: 6.2.13 1142.17
    Originally posted by AngryJohnny
    You can see the ball land UNDER him UNDER the shoulders, and the shoulders land just short of the line.


CLEARLY, I'm not disputing that. BUT, when Big Ben was in the air, JUST BEFORE he gets hit, it looks like the ball MAY have touched the line, and you can't say for sure because the ball was completely concealed by Ben's arm. That's why I'm saying that no matter how they'd ruled it it was impossible to overruled based on the need for INDISPUTABLE evidence. When he got hit, the ball was pushed back. Before he got hit, some of the ball may have crossed the edge of the line.

dwaters
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#36 Posted on 6.2.06 2026.43
Reposted on: 6.2.13 2028.12
I love the Bill Simmons take on the trophy celebration:

"If this were the WWE, the crowd would have cheered, Bettis would have held the trophy over his head, and then the Patriots' music would have started playing, followed by Belichick and Brady emerging to a chorus of boos, taunting Bettis with stuff like, "What's the matter, gettin' out while you can?" and "You're not the real champs until you go through us!" And then there would have been a huge fake brawl, followed by Bettis returning the following week for a tag-team match with Cowher as his partner."
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#37 Posted on 7.2.06 1426.11
Reposted on: 7.2.13 1427.07
As a Seattleite and someone who was both emtionally and financially eviscerated by the game, please allow me to comment:

The refs were definitely a factor, but I look at it a little more holisitically:

When you have:

1. Poor execution (kicking game, dropped passes, D-Jack's one foot in bounds (twice!), costly turnover (INT))
2. Poor coaching (clock management both halves, keeping one TD in the 1st half, questionable playcalling at times)
3. Bad officiating (phantom holding call, phantom offensive PI, phantom Roesthslhisdfjhurhger TD, blocking below the waist on a friggin' tackle)

You can overcome 1 or 3, maybe 2 of 3, but not 3 of 3, even when you outgain them in most every measure statistical category.

Yes the officiating was bad, but it could have been overcome if they didn't also make mistakes on the field and manage the game poorly.

Seattle gave it away.

(edited by dll.ms on 8.2.06 1127)
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#38 Posted on 7.2.06 1449.55
Reposted on: 7.2.13 1453.04
    Originally posted by dll.ms
    D-Jack's one foot in bounds (twice!)


I will go to my grave (or until the next time I see it) believing that hit left foot was in and his right foot kicked the pylon. At the time I dismissed it because no would in our room knew for sure if it was a TD if that happened, but today John Clayton said that would've been a TD if he had.
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