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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - WWE Royal Rumble 2006
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JustinShapiro
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#81 Posted on 30.1.06 2210.05
Reposted on: 30.1.13 2211.33

    Well, I don't think the casual viewer will buy Mysterio beating up guys 3 times his size.


Dude, I'm pretty sure they already do, and have for a long time. If they didn't, then his matches wouldn't have heat and he wouldn't be over.


    Furthermore, "what the fans accept" is kind of a weak statement I think. Because the fans in question accept "workrate" (though a lot of them don't know what that is and think spotty moves that don't make sense are what workrate is) over actual match psychology and storytelling.


I think "Everyone watching is wrong and I'm the only one who understands what wrestling is" is about as compelling an argument as "Nobody buys Rey (except for everyone who does)."

(edited by JustinShapiro on 30.1.06 2318)
SKLOKAZOID
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#82 Posted on 30.1.06 2229.45
Reposted on: 30.1.13 2232.03
If they can buy The Boogeyman squashing JBL after his near-year-long Title Reign (which was just under a year ago), I think they can buy Rey beating Angle, Orton or whomever in the main event of WrestleMania.

In fact, the story of the match would come from the perception that Rey CAN'T win and that Angle totally outclasses him in every way. Angle doesn't even necessarily have to turn heel, but there would be tension. That's how you build heat.

Then, you have Rey win, because it's WrestleMania - Anything Can Happen At WrestleMania!

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 30.1.06 2049)
PerthHeat
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#83 Posted on 30.1.06 2239.04
Reposted on: 30.1.13 2239.26
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    At this point, if Orton HAS to be in the title match, make it a triple threat (Elimination rules please!) with Angle and Rey. If Rey doesn't win, so be it. As for the WWE title, if they're bound and determined to do HHH/Cena, I'm praying they do a double turn in the month leading up to it.

    (edited by SchippeWreck on 30.1.06 1350)
Even if they did a 3way the buys would be higher than if they dumped him unceremoniously. People love the David V Goliath idea.. sure he may get crushed but for every win he has the losses are forgotten. I like the 3way better than any other idea ( sorry eke) . Have Rey demand his shot and have Vince come out and argue that Angle-Orton is HIS match and be dammed if Rey will demand anything. Then set up a poll on WWE.Com ... makes Vince money keeps the program on track keeps the hits on wwe.com moving on



    You know, he may not be the next Hulk Hogan, but people fucking LOVE Mysterio and would shell out money to see him get a shot at the title and possibly win it.

I agree I would buy WM22 if Rey was in the title shot.. I would let my mate buy it if he isnt


(edited by PerthHeat on 31.1.06 1141)
Whattaburger
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#84 Posted on 30.1.06 2246.11
Reposted on: 30.1.13 2246.32
    Originally posted by BigSteve
      Originally posted by whattaburger
      True, the fans will buy it...the fans that have watched Rey all this time and/or all of the IWC fans. So, basically, the people who will buy it are the people who are tuning in anyway and thus, we get back to the idea of flip-flopping acceptance of what is "believable" and what isn't.


    What flip flopping? People draw distinctions between things they choose to suspend their disbelief on becuase on the whole those things contribute to their enjoyment of the show and things they dislike because they feel it insults their intelligence or is wholly unbelievable. That's not flip-flopping, that's drawing distinctions between two different things.




      So, you're telling me that a 5ft/150lb WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT champion isn't an insult to people's intelligence? Why don't I pull any gymnast off the street and put the title on them--that's my argument, not the lack of ability in the ring. And it's not just as simple to say they choose when they want to suspend belief. You guys know very well that people (especially the IWC) suspend their belief for who the IWC sees as "good." If what you say is the case, than I should never hear anything bad about the Undertaker no selling for his opponents ever again. It doesn't make sense to do it for one guy and not the other who is just (or nearly) just as over. What separates the two is that the the IWC doesn't like the Undertaker, so they won't cut the character slack like they would Rey.

      I don't see how it isn't. And yes, I agree with you, Rey puts on good matches and does a lot of smart things in the ring, but so did Sky Low low--maybe we would put the title on him if he were still alive.

      And no, the regular viewer and the internet buys into Rey and give him heat and have for a long time, not the person just switching through the channels...maybe for a little while, but not long enough to keep those people.

      And by no means did I even imply that I knew more about wrestling than anyone else does, because I don't and have never stated as such. I do think however that I have a pretty good grasp on what does and what doesn't make sense in the match, and maybe a little more than SOME of the people who post on here who thought that good match psychology would be Hulk Hogan selling for HBK like HBK was Andre the Giant or King Kong Bundy and threw a fit because he didn't.

      But hey, if I came off that way...sorry, brother.
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#85 Posted on 30.1.06 2252.09
Reposted on: 30.1.13 2252.50
If you were 'average Joe viewer' and you just happened to switched over to SMACKDOWN or RAW and saw this little gut in a mask wearing a belt that's almost bigger then he is and fighting a guy who is almost three times his size, and you hear the announcers say that that little guy was the 'World Champion'... I'd bet you'd laugh and change the channel because it was stupid.

THIS is one of the reasons why 'average Joe viewer' doesn't stick around anymore. They see all these little guys beating the big guys and it's pretty much every 'high school geeks' wet dream. It's like watching DODGEBALL everyday where the underdog wins. Well guess what... that's not how it REALLY is, and the casual viewer isn't going to stick around to see the little guy win. They're going stick around to watch the big guys beat the crap outta the little guy and toss him around the building. (Well, that and the half naked women, but you can't have half naked women on the screen ALL the time, now can you.)

To the casual viewer, which is where all the money is, bigger is better and the bigger guys always beat the crap outta the smaller guys. It's just the way the world is.

Rey as world champ will NOT draw money. Sure YOU as a long time wrestling fan will enjoy it, but they're going to get your money anyway, so why should YOUR opinion really matter. The opinion, or perception if you will, that matters is the new viewer they bring in with new money that they wouldn't normally be getting.

    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    If they can buy The Boogeyman squashing JBL after his near-year-long Title Reign (which was just under a year ago), I think they can buy Rey beating Angle, Orton or whomever in the main event of WrestleMania.


No, they buy it because he's the Boogeyman and the Boogeyman can do no wrong because he eats worms and if a guy can eat worms, he can damn sure beat your ass as well. Come on, SERIOUSLY, I mean, you HAVE seen the clock bit, right?
thecubsfan
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#86 Posted on 30.1.06 2314.51
Reposted on: 30.1.13 2317.08

    They see all these little guys beating the big guys and it's pretty much every 'high school geeks' wet dream.


Wait, wait, WHAT? Who exactly was SmackDown champion till five minutes ago? I remember him being tall.
JustinShapiro
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#87 Posted on 30.1.06 2328.21
Reposted on: 30.1.13 2328.49
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    the casual viewer isn't going to stick around to see the little guy win. They're going stick around to watch the big guys beat the crap outta the little guy and toss him around the building.

    To the casual viewer, which is where all the money is, bigger is better and the bigger guys always beat the crap outta the smaller guys. It's just the way the world is.

    Rey as world champ will NOT draw money.


Broseph. It'd be one thing if you were making a baseless claim with nothing to disprove it. But Smackdown's two biggest ratings draws over the last two years were/are 5'7 and 5'1 -- the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 31.1.06 0054)
BigSteve
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#88 Posted on 30.1.06 2329.51
Reposted on: 30.1.13 2331.40
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    To the casual viewer, which is where all the money is,


I disagree.

Look at the PPV situation for WWE. They'll get on average 400,000 buys per month (give or take) for their pay per views. For Raw, they'll have about four million regular viewers plus about 200,000-500,000 that will tune in and cause the ratings to fluctuate by a couple tenths of a point.

Where is WWE likely to generate more PPV buys (and other revenue) - the 3.5 million weekly viewers that don't buy them but watch the TV religiously or the .2-.5 million that tune in if something good is on but otherwise don't mind missing the show? I'd say it's the former group.
Mr Shh
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#89 Posted on 31.1.06 0009.52
Reposted on: 31.1.13 0010.33
I have no problem whatsoever with Rey challenging for a World title at WM, and I find it perfectly believable that, on any given night, he could beat any wrestler in a one-on-one wrestling match.

I have a *slight* problem believing that the smallest man out of the 30 entered the Royal Rumble match at the beginning and won it, eliminating six men in the process. But I can overcome that.

I know that Rey is at the top when it comes to Smackdown ratings, and that his headlining WM would contribute quite positively to the buyrate, but isn't the ultimate question how a Rey title reign will translate into gate receipts (especially with Batista on the shelf)?
PerthHeat
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#90 Posted on 31.1.06 0019.18
Reposted on: 31.1.13 0019.25
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    but isn't the ultimate question how a Rey title reign will translate into gate receipts (especially with Batista on the shelf)?
Why does he have to win it? His RR win ''should'' at least give him a shot at a match. I wouldnt necessarily have him win it..but at least by competing it ensures continuity with the RR clause
J. Kyle
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#91 Posted on 31.1.06 0026.18
Reposted on: 31.1.13 0028.09
Here I thought ratings were down because Cena wasn't as over they hoped, the writing has been hit or miss, they alienated all the WCW fans, and the casual fans moved on to the next fad.

If it wasn't for Cerebus and Whattaburger I'd have never realized it's because THE WRESTLERS AREN'T TALL ENOUGH.

Well thanks fellas, I'm sure if we raise enough hell wrestling can weed guys like Jericho (oops already did), Benoit, Styles, Rey, and Christian out of the world title picture.

Then we can return to the glory days of guys like Nathan Jones and the Giant Gonzales.

Yay.
Mr Shh
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#92 Posted on 31.1.06 0033.18
Reposted on: 31.1.13 0033.22
    Originally posted by PerthHeat
      Originally posted by Mr Shh
      but isn't the ultimate question how a Rey title reign will translate into gate receipts (especially with Batista on the shelf)?
    Why does he have to win it? His RR win ''should'' at least give him a shot at a match. I wouldnt necessarily have him win it..but at least by competing it ensures continuity with the RR clause


I jumped to conclusions without realizing it, but wouldn't he *have* to win it? If Rey stays in the title match, then that means we get 61 days of further Eddie exploitation, only this time, it'd be tenfold since they'd be pushing the WrestleMania main event.
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#93 Posted on 31.1.06 0036.59
Reposted on: 31.1.13 0037.31
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    If they can buy The Boogeyman squashing JBL after his near-year-long Title Reign (which was just under a year ago)


I wouldn't say that wrestling fans completely bought the Boogeyman squashing JBL. Many in the IWC didn't like, or were at least confused by the fact that Boogeyman so easily squashed a recent former Smackdown champion.
Whattaburger
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#94 Posted on 31.1.06 0059.46
Reposted on: 31.1.13 0101.12
(deleted by Whattaburger on 30.1.06 2302)
oldschoolhero
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#95 Posted on 31.1.06 0215.32
Reposted on: 31.1.13 0216.04
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    I jumped to conclusions without realizing it, but wouldn't he *have* to win it? If Rey stays in the title match, then that means we get 61 days of further Eddie exploitation, only this time, it'd be tenfold since they'd be pushing the WrestleMania main event.


They're most likely going to exploit Eddie's death in a far more down-low manner by using it to put heel heat on Orton stealing the title shot. I'd rather see a tribute-flavoured "Rey goes to WrestleMania and wins it for his lost friend" storyline than a "Randy Orton is the biggest dick in the world for stealing Rey's chance to honour Eddie at WrestleMania" storyline.



Hogan's My Dad
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#96 Posted on 31.1.06 0459.06
Reposted on: 31.1.13 0459.40
Well the last Rumble winner not to get in the main event of Wrestlemania was Stone Cold Steve Austin in '97. That being said, it was too soon for him to do it then, and in Rey's case, it will be too late if they don't do it now.

Doesn't anyone but me remember those rumours of "WWE has huge plans for Rey Mysterio" all over the place long before Eddie died? Granted, that's vague, but if they didn't want Rey to win it before Eddie's death I'd offer the argument that in November, they probably didn't have any ideas who was going to win it. Bottom line is, Triple H winning would have been ridiculously puke-inducing, and Orton would have been about the same. A heel hasn't gone over in the Rumble since, well, Vince in '99 (and kudos to Lawler for subtly shitting on that booking decision, as it was easily the worst thing ever in the history of humanity).

Exploitation is a funny word to use here. Do you want the Eddie chants edited out of Smackdown? Do you want his real-life friends to stop mourning him in whatever way helps them get over his absence? It's difficult to say here how else you can deal with Eddie's continuing presence in WWE. I would offer that this is too unique a situation to have a clear notion of what the perfect thing to do would be. Pillman, Owen, Rude, Hennig---the list goes horribly on and ever on, but not one of those guys was a main-eventer at the time of his death. I would argue that none of them had a connection with the audience like Eddie did either.

So what's the E to do? They seem to be going with the flow and booking something that is in keeping with the current tide of public opinion. If they put Orton in Rey's spot, that would be---well, unique, since no one who isn't Vince McMahon seems to give a flying fuck about Orton these days. He isn't even over with that five percent of the audience who cheer heels invariably because they think it makes them seem cool, who liked Orton back during his IC title reign. Is that all Orton's fault? Probably not, but he's been floundering ever since HHH cut his balls off for no apparent reason, and a year of jobbing to the Undertaker and only getting wins with the help of his turgid-looking progenitor can't have helped things. The recent string of excellent matches with Benoit have been virtually the only entertaining thing Orton's done since---well, Foley. I don't see how that could possibly be equated to a WM main event. Orton/Batista would have at least made sense, due to their history, but Orton has no reason to face Angle---and if it's Taker again, God have mercy.

Cena/HHH can't be better than okay.

But at least we have Vince and HBK---uh---never mind.

I'm not getting Wrestlemania. No---not an empty threat. I'm really not if these things come to pass. It's fifty bucks, for God's sake.
SKLOKAZOID
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#97 Posted on 31.1.06 1004.26
Reposted on: 31.1.13 1005.09
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    I know that Rey is at the top when it comes to Smackdown ratings, and that his headlining WM would contribute quite positively to the buyrate, but isn't the ultimate question how a Rey title reign will translate into gate receipts (especially with Batista on the shelf)?
Not necessarily. When it comes to selling the "WrestleMania" event, I would much rather opt for the one event that would sell the PPV than I would for the longterm draw that would sell down the road. Even if Benoit and Eddy didn't draw so well in their reigns, I wouldn't end WMXX any other way than by giving them the belts.

And if Rey doesn't work out as champion, just take the belt off of him.
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