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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - RAW #660 1/16/06 Register and log in to post!
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Gugs
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#21 Posted on 17.1.06 1104.38
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1105.02
Turning Masters face could be the only way to make him a great heel. The crowd, totally incredulous that WWE is trying to shove the talentless lump of suck down their throats as someone to cheer, boos him. Then, four months later, they re-turn him heel, and the boos stick. And, if he's worked on his mic/ring skills, he's suddenly turned into Rocky Maivia.

Of course, turning him face is just as likely (and possibly more likely) to wind up like Scott Steiner's run, where he gets booed for sucking, turns back heel, then gets ignored.
Hokienautic
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#22 Posted on 17.1.06 1124.47
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1124.58
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by Hokienautic
        Originally posted by dskillz
        This is kind of minor, but why wasn't Masters upset at Edge breaking up the Masterlock Challenge on Cena?


      Because he still didn't lose it -- Cena never broke it. Maybe we'll find out next week he is ... if a heel is angry at two other heels does that automatically make him a face? As someone mentioned, he never DID reapply the move. Wouldn't a full heel Masters do that?

      Not sure how I feel about a potential face turn. Hercules Hernandez was never the same after Heenan tried to sell him to slick. A brute-force power wrestler who hurts people doesn't seem to translate well as a face, I guess.


    While Masters made sure we all knew he blamed Carlito, neither guy were made to look as a face last night. Although, Masters did give Cena some respect for taking the challenge.


An out of the blue question: given the split reactions to John Cena, would saving Cena from an Edge/Carlito beatdown be enough to turn Masters face? Or would it be a half-assed way of going about it? They could easily explain it with your "giving Cena respect for taking the challenge" reasoning.
Kevintripod
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#23 Posted on 17.1.06 1237.51
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1237.58
    Originally posted by Venom
    Crowd is still 50/50 on Cena. Guess Hershey, PA was a fluke. Oh well, I'm still with him.



The crowd seemed alot more than 50% behind Cena. More like 80% or 90% pro-Cena.
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#24 Posted on 17.1.06 1249.56
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1250.18
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
      Originally posted by Venom
      Crowd is still 50/50 on Cena. Guess Hershey, PA was a fluke. Oh well, I'm still with him.



    The crowd seemed alot more than 50% behind Cena. More like 80% or 90% pro-Cena.

That's what I thought. I heard a very pro-Cena crowd last night.
The Thrill
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#25 Posted on 17.1.06 1444.10
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1445.14
So Mama Benjamin is incensed at Val Venis' porn career because she's a "good Christian woman," yet she tells the biggest leech in the company, Vince, to "drop it like it's hot" and invite him, uh, in, for some "brown sugar?"

I should be incensed at this lack of continuity...but dammit, she's just too funny. (And hell, at least it gives Shelton something to do.)

Angle a face on SmackDown? Might be the first time WWE says it's all right to cheer for Our Olympic Hero since his end-of-show run-in on the first post-9/11 SmackDown. Hooray!

And I think I really like Edge as an a**hole heel champion...but can they take his Rated-R gimmick beyond "hey, watch me nail my girlfriend on live TV?"
Matt Tracker
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#26 Posted on 17.1.06 1455.02
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1455.07
    Originally posted by The Thrill
    So Mama Benjamin is incensed at Val Venis' porn career because she's a "good Christian woman," yet she tells the biggest leech in the company, Vince, to "drop it like it's hot" and invite him, uh, in, for some "brown sugar?"


Remember, she vaguely recognized him from some movies before she clearly remembered. When she did, and realized her son was right behind her, she played the indignant Christian role.

    Originally posted by The Thrill
    And I think I really like Edge as an a**hole heel champion...but can they take his Rated-R gimmick beyond "hey, watch me nail my girlfriend on live TV?"


This strikes me as consistent with his Team RECK character; he doesn't know how to handle success maturely. He's got the gal everyone hates from a real-life sex scandal made into crux of the storyline that elevated him past the midcard. So he uses her in a mocking gesture mixed with his mindless adolescent celebration. As he said last night, the champ calls the shots (especially when there's no GM), even if the shots are post-pubescent.

(edited by Matt Tracker on 17.1.06 1257)
Venom
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#27 Posted on 17.1.06 1521.27
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1521.37
    Originally posted by geemoney
      Originally posted by Kevintripod
        Originally posted by Venom
        Crowd is still 50/50 on Cena. Guess Hershey, PA was a fluke. Oh well, I'm still with him.



      The crowd seemed alot more than 50% behind Cena. More like 80% or 90% pro-Cena.

    That's what I thought. I heard a very pro-Cena crowd last night.


Maybe my speakers are bad...heard some very clear haterizing on him before and during the Masterlock challenge...hey, I actually like Cena so it's not like I'm trying to drag him down.
too-old-now
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#28 Posted on 17.1.06 1659.52
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1659.54
I liked Shelton's mama, and enjoyed the main event. The one problem I had with the main event was just before the first break, Lita is holding Ric down on the table for Edge to climb the ladder and leap onto Flair through the table. Yes, this was a Holy Shit moment and deserved the crowd chanting it. The problem was, Edge just got finished talking about how smart he was, if he easily had time to set up and climb the ladder to leap out of the ring, he had even more time he could've used to simply grab the belt at that point!

I don't know what to make out of Masters - I've been more tolerant of him than many others. Going way back to his very early appearances, I thought he was very green. I think he's a sponge, and while he has learned a ton, there is a lot left for him to learn. Several weeks back they teased him fearing Big Show, but then suddenly they put him in a program with HBK. At the time I thought they'd use him to get Batista heat back after Batista dropped the title. I wonder if Show gets to break the Masterlock at Mania? If they want to turn him face, have him apply the Masterlock to HHH.

I don't think the crowds are as sick of Cena since he 1. dropped the title and 2. finally acknowledged he was getting booed. Using him to save Flair from a beatdown, in front of a hot pro-Flair crowd, clearly made him a fan favorite last night. I don't know if it'll last, but I'm betting it does for a while
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#29 Posted on 17.1.06 1732.02
Reposted on: 17.1.13 1732.05
I think an RVD save with his music hitting would have been way more over than a Cena save, but that just wasn't going to happen so nevermind me.

Although Flair is a fucking madman and there were moments in that match where I could have sworn disaster and death were one ladder wiggle away.
jwrestle
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#30 Posted on 17.1.06 2033.40
Reposted on: 17.1.13 2033.42
    Originally posted by The Thrill

    And I think I really like Edge as an a**hole heel champion...but can they take his Rated-R gimmick beyond "hey, watch me nail my girlfriend on live TV?"


Umm...ok he isn't "Stone Cold" Steve Austin but I think it needs all the envelope pushing it can get.
tomk
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#31 Posted on 18.1.06 0136.29
Reposted on: 18.1.13 0137.29
    Originally posted by Octave
      Originally posted by tomk
      Angle v Michaels was worked stylistically like Coco Verde v. Xibalba but better than that. Not as good as Caifan Rockero II vs. Oriental I but better than Coco Verde vs. Xibalba. Not a style I care for much. I'm not sure when Michaels yanked Eddie's old reverse opponents finisher into a DDT as transition spot but Michaels does it really really poorly. It may be worse than Chavito's frog splash.

    Hey, I'm from Earth. And you?


Earth too.

Angle v. Michaels was worked like indy luchadors working meaningless quick exchange section in a trios match. Except in trios match you'd have other guys working the storybased sections.Indy lucha means the story based sections may be as poor as the quick exchange section.

Angle v Michaels wasn't the worst indy lucha exchange section it wasn't the best. It definitely wasn't high end non-indy lucha quick exchange section.

One of the really great Eddie as champ spots was reversing his opponents finishers into a spinning DDT.

At this point Big Show kind of uses that as signature spot..Opponent reverses chocke slam into DDT.

After Eddie died HBK started using the spot in his matches.

After Eddie died Chavo Jr started using a frog splash as an Eddie tribute spot. He doesn't execute it very well but he uses it at right point in a match and crowd understands it as Eddie tribute spot.

After Eddie died Rey uses the Eddie dance as a an Eddie tribute spot. His doesn't execute the dance that well but he uses it at right point in match and crowd understands it as Eddie tribute spot.

After Eddie died Chris Benoit used Eddies rolling suplexes as an Eddie tribute spot. He doesn't swivel his hips betweeen suplexes as well as Eddie did but he uses it at right point in the match and the crowd understands it as an Eddie tribute spot.

After Eddie died Michaels started regularly using Eddies big DDT reversal spot. He executes it really poorly and kind of just throws it out in middle of match and its not a tribute spot...just a spot where a washed up wrestler decided he could steal a dead wrestlers signature spot.

I'd prefer to see Chavo go back to using the Gory bomb but I can excuse him for having a bad frog splash. Michaels has no excuse.

JustinShapiro
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#32 Posted on 18.1.06 0237.05
Reposted on: 18.1.13 0237.05
    Originally posted by tomk
    After Eddie died Michaels started regularly using Eddies big DDT reversal spot. He executes it really poorly and kind of just throws it out in middle of match and its not a tribute spot...just a spot where a washed up wrestler decided he could steal a dead wrestlers signature spot.


Michaels 'decided to steal' the DDT counter before Eddie died, as he used it in the Vengeance match with Angle, a good five months before his terrible matches killed Eddie.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 18.1.06 0344)
tomk
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#33 Posted on 18.1.06 0326.01
Reposted on: 18.1.13 0326.03
Forgot that.

HBK's matches didn't kill Eddie. Eddie killed Eddie.

If post came off hatefull it was unintentional as I was trying to explain my earlier shorthand. First post more in the spirit of my criticism. Move looks bad. I start explaining things more detailed and it comes accross more spite filled.




BigDaddyLoco
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#34 Posted on 18.1.06 0741.09
Reposted on: 18.1.13 0741.13
I actually rather enjoyed the longhand version for a change.
JustinShapiro
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#35 Posted on 18.1.06 1439.55
Reposted on: 18.1.13 1440.22
    Originally posted by tomk
    First post more in the spirit of my criticism. Move looks bad. I start explaining things more detailed and it comes accross more spite filled.







I gotcha. I dunno, if I was trying to get a match out of Big Show and wanted to do WWE finisher reversal spots, there's only so many moves you can do in mid-air out of chokeslam. But I can't argue with the move looking bad at times, like in the match with Kane.
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