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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - RAW #653 11/28/05 - or as I like to call it... "Nitro"
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CRZ
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#1 Posted on 28.11.05 2206.25
Reposted on: 28.11.12 2209.48
Visit THE NEW WWE.com and watch RAW's ad rates drop! Good thing ad rates don't affect stock prices!

Say, if Maria isn't a wrestler, what the heck was she doing in the Diva Battle Royale two weeks ago? Oh, right...honouring the memory of Eddie Guerrero. Sorry

Too bad Mickie James spent so much time looking for the Women's Championship title belt that it kinda ruined the effect of ... whatever she was supposed to be going for. Not a lot of great acting chops there (but look at her ASS!!!!!!)

Obligatory Vince McMahon wankfest cum Bischoff burial culminates in Dancing Shane McMahon - look at those ratings SPIKE (on other channels)

Hey, Shelton? Eat another pin tonight, wouldja? Thanks, that's a champ - well, "champ" is probably an unfortunate choice of words

Hey, I'm as shocked as you are that Show & Kane got by Tomko & Snitsky - wouldn't Show have to lose his belt before he can get into it with Triple H? Wait, is he Ric Flair's girlfriend or something? "I'm so mad I'm not even gonna smile and wave as is my style!"

I liked the STF better when ... well, almost any other time I've seen it used.

What do you want? eke told me five minutes ago he didn't have a thread starter

Next week: DUKE "THE DUMPSTER" DROESE RETURNS


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geemoney
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#2 Posted on 28.11.05 2217.59
Reposted on: 28.11.12 2220.23
I thought of Duke when Vince said "take out the trash" too.

I'd say trading Bischoff for Shane is a wash at this point. Bischoff's character has been walked all over and watered down to a point where it's hard to care....Michaels/Carlito was pretty average....Was the Angle/Maria thing an attempt to get the crowd to boo him instead of Cena later on?....

The six-woman tag was okay, but the Mickie/Trish storyline is plodding along at a snail's pace....I don't really get the Shane/Bischoff altercation backstage....I continue to not understand Shelton's de-push. Murdoch said on Unlimited that he was going after the IC title. Don't tell me they broke up him and Cade ALREADY. That was one team I looked forward to watching....

I actually liked Triple H's promo, and I guess it's time for Big Show's annual big push....I guess Tomko & Snitsky can go back to crushing jobbers on Heat....How many fucking times do they have to have Cena win a handicap/triple threat match? It's really gotten to a point where it's almost comical in the way they're booking him to overcome the odds. Sad, really.
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#3 Posted on 28.11.05 2219.46
Reposted on: 28.11.12 2220.24
    Originally posted by CRZ
    I liked the STF better when ... well, almost any other time I've seen it used.









It was better than the Erik Watts version. That's something to build on.
After all these years, all it takes is for someone to knock the mic out of Trip's hand and he shuts up?
Is there some sort of magic button that when Austin, and to a lesser extent Hogan, aren't around the McMahon's turn from heel to face? At least this is a different way for Bischoff to go on his annual December hiatus.
And, could someone explain to Vince that 82 weeks isn't a couple of months?
ekedolphin
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#4 Posted on 28.11.05 2220.48
Reposted on: 28.11.12 2220.51
Sorry, guys, Colts are on MNF again tonight, so I only caught RAW during the commercial breaks. And as much as I don't like Cena as champion, him retaining the title actually wasn't the worst-case scenario for me tonight. Chris Masters is one of the only people that can make me (somewhat) root for Cena, though obviously I was pulling for Angle.

I guess Cena's going to be the WWE Champion going into WrestleMania 22. I've suspected it for a little while now, but essentially all he has to do is retain the title at the Royal Rumble (since we're not gonna see a WWE Title change on regular TV), and he's home-free.

Shelton Benjamin goes from getting this close to beating Kurt Angle, to losing to Trevor Murdoch. When's his contract up, anyway? I think Shelton is on the fast track to becoming a serious contender for the NWA World Heavyweight Title, the way WWE's pissing away his talent. I could see Shelton as X-Division Champion, too.

Hmm, what else... oh, if Tyson Tomko and Snitsky are considered the strongest contenders yet for Big Show and Kane's World Tag Team Title, that ought to give you some idea of the horrendous state of the tag-team division.
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#5 Posted on 28.11.05 2228.43
Reposted on: 28.11.12 2229.02
My thoughts:

Vince/Eric/Shane: Deja vu, again.

Show/Kane vs. Tyson/Snitsky: I now call Tyson/Snitsky "Roid Rage".

The women's match: At least, Victoria jobbed to a woman who can acutally wrestle (aside from Trish). When's Lita going to return to action? She should take Torrie Wilson's place!

Speaking of Lita, "The Cutting Edge" interview didn't happen as I once thought.
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#6 Posted on 28.11.05 2239.46
Reposted on: 28.11.12 2239.46
Those Cena-Masters exchanges were scintillating weren't they? I actually enjoy Masters in the ring more than Cena. It just seems like most of the time Cena most resembles an eight year old pretend wrestling in his basement.

This is the first time I've caught a significant portion of Raw (besides the Guerrero tribute show) in a few months, and the show seems even more rudderless. With the reaction Cena got tonight (and apparently has been getting), I can't say I blame WWE for panicking a little bit. As much as I like Angle better than Cena, I'm glad that they didn't put the belt on him. Angle would be a better champ, but I don't see how that would help the show in the long term.

Glad to see HBK got his heat back after losing last night. Carlito and Shelton Benjamin are two of the best (only?) reasons to be optimistic about Raw, and they're going nowhere. Oh well....
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#7 Posted on 28.11.05 2252.27
Reposted on: 28.11.12 2254.20
The look on Cena's face as he went for the finish and after the match was...interesting. I couldn't tell if he's legitmately frustrated with the crowd response lately, or if he's foreshadowing a character change based on a worked frustration with the crowd response. His celebration on the ramp after the match seemed spiteful, and not just to Kurt.

And as soon as Vince said they'd be "taking out the trash," I knew that next week we'll find out that he doesn't mean "we're going to fire Eric Bischoff." Because if they were actually going to do it, they'd have said just that: "Next week we fire Eric Bischoff." Actually, they wouldn't wait until next week, because they could do it that night; the only reason to wait a week is to build up the shocking swerve where they let him redeem himself or something.

Am I the only one who wants to see Bischoff blow his stack and just haul off on...well, any of the McMahons? Of course he'd be booked to get squashed in retribution, but that'd still be more compelling than watching him stand there and take it week after week.
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#8 Posted on 28.11.05 2349.34
Reposted on: 28.11.12 2350.08
    Originally posted by Duo_Shinigami_1083


    Show/Kane vs. Tyson/Snitsky: I now call Tyson/Snitsky "Roid Rage".




Or..."The World's Ugliest Tag Team"
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#9 Posted on 29.11.05 0046.39
Reposted on: 29.11.12 0047.00
    Originally posted by Jim Smith
    And as soon as Vince said they'd be "taking out the trash," I knew that next week we'll find out that he doesn't mean "we're going to fire Eric Bischoff." Because if they were actually going to do it, they'd have said just that: "Next week we fire Eric Bischoff."


I immediately was thinking the exact same thing. I'm guessing on a possible swerve where Vince actually fires Angle or Masters (or both ?) instead of Bischoff.
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#10 Posted on 29.11.05 0352.07
Reposted on: 29.11.12 0352.25
Shocked they didn't put the belt on Masters as that really feels like the kind of thing Vince would do a week after announcing the new "drug policy".
Matt Tracker
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#11 Posted on 29.11.05 0920.24
Reposted on: 29.11.12 0920.27
    Originally posted by Jim Smith
    The look on Cena's face as he went for the finish and after the match was...interesting. I couldn't tell if he's legitmately frustrated with the crowd response lately, or if he's foreshadowing a character change based on a worked frustration with the crowd response. His celebration on the ramp after the match seemed spiteful, and not just to Kurt.


I was surprised by the vehemence of the "Cena Sucks" chant and the outright boos for him during the match. It also seemed as if the crowd volume was turned down to hide it. As was noted in the SS thread, the audience seems split on Cena along gender lines. The Lovely Mrs. Tracker didn't understand why Angle would go through with a match against Angle. I suggested it's a blatant, desperate ploy to get people to boo the man because he's again morphing into a villain too entertaining to root against. Hooking him up with Daivari, who gets angry "USA" chants, is a small shrub of brilliance.

Hokienautic
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#12 Posted on 29.11.05 0931.40
Reposted on: 29.11.12 0933.22
    Originally posted by CRZ
    I liked the STF better when ... well, almost any other time I've seen it used.


You know, that was about the stupidest possible ending to that match, and one they didn't even need. They spend half the night building up that Cena doesn't have a submission finisher, and then have him break one out? WTF? And the perfect ending was right there:

Cena stands over Masters, standing on his foot as he did before the second chair shot. Edge of the chair down on his knee; yell "TAP!" at Masters. Edge of the chair down on his knee again. Yell "TAP!" once more. Repeat until Masters taps to the dreaded chair-edge submission. Plays off the build that he doesn't have a submission, and shows he doesn't NEED a submission -- he plays the game his own way.

The only thought I had about why they had him break out the STF is to find out later that someone taught it to him and use that to kick-start a Masters-Mystery Person feud while Angle still goes after Cena (or an Angle-Mystery Person while Cena moves on), but I don't know who they could say taught it to him.
Matt Tracker
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#13 Posted on 29.11.05 1006.47
Reposted on: 29.11.12 1007.29
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    And the perfect ending was right there


I was hoping they would pull a DX title exchange: have Masters immediately tap out to Angle and admit they had set up Cena to lose the belt.
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#14 Posted on 29.11.05 1013.30
Reposted on: 29.11.12 1013.52
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by Hokienautic
      And the perfect ending was right there


    I was hoping they would pull a DX title exchange: have Masters immediately tap out to Angle and admit they had set up Cena to lose the belt.


Ahh, but that wouldn't let Bischoff achieve his goal. He stated that CENA had to tap out and lose.

Then again, it would have been a bit funny to have him get the title off of Cena and next week while Bischoff is gloating have Vince come out and say "but you didn't achieve your goal -- your goal was for Cena to tap out, and he did not. So, you're FIRED!"
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#15 Posted on 29.11.05 1100.53
Reposted on: 29.11.12 1101.15
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by Jim Smith
      The look on Cena's face as he went for the finish and after the match was...interesting. I couldn't tell if he's legitmately frustrated with the crowd response lately, or if he's foreshadowing a character change based on a worked frustration with the crowd response. His celebration on the ramp after the match seemed spiteful, and not just to Kurt.


    I was surprised by the vehemence of the "Cena Sucks" chant and the outright boos for him during the match. It also seemed as if the crowd volume was turned down to hide it. As was noted in the SS thread, the audience seems split on Cena along gender lines. The Lovely Mrs. Tracker didn't understand why Angle would go through with a match against Angle. I suggested it's a blatant, desperate ploy to get people to boo the man because he's again morphing into a villain too entertaining to root against. Hooking him up with Daivari, who gets angry "USA" chants, is a small shrub of brilliance.


Yeah, I was noticing that, too. It reminded me of the Rock when he dropped the title to Lesnar at Summerslam. "Well, if you're gonna boo me, then I'm gonna give you reasons to boo me!"

Im wondering if Vinces "Taking out the trash" comment means a double-turn of Angle and Cena. Either that, or (God forbid) Vince will step in himself to play heel to Cena.
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#16 Posted on 29.11.05 1326.26
Reposted on: 29.11.12 1329.01
All I can say for sure about last night's show is this: Shane looked chubby.

(It's okay, ekedolphin - you didn't write 'cuz the show wasn't worth watching. Stop kidding yourself.) :)
2P4E
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#17 Posted on 29.11.05 1331.57
Reposted on: 29.11.12 1332.02
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    They spend half the night building up that Cena doesn't have a submission finisher


The whole "Have you ever seen Cena use a submission?" was stupid in itself, since a while ago he put the ankle lock on Angle in a match anyway.
Jim Smith
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#18 Posted on 29.11.05 1719.38
Reposted on: 29.11.12 1719.44
    Originally posted by 2P4E
      Originally posted by Hokienautic
      They spend half the night building up that Cena doesn't have a submission finisher


    The whole "Have you ever seen Cena use a submission?" was stupid in itself, since a while ago he put the ankle lock on Angle in a match anyway.


That, and just because he never uses a submission doesn't mean he doesn't know any. I could put a sleeperhold on a guy, and I've never wrestled in my life. The challenge isn't knowing the holds, it's creating an opening to apply them and having the strength to make them finishers. And as Cena demonstrated, creating the opening isn't hard in a match where chairshots are legal.
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#19 Posted on 29.11.05 1849.52
Reposted on: 29.11.12 1850.05
Any show where I get to hear "Here Comes the Money" and see Shane O'Mac's goofy Ali Shuffle is ***well worth the two hours*** spent.

The Divas remain basically the only reason to keep Raw as "appointment TV." The Trish/Mickie James angle has been beautiful so far, and continues to pick up momentum and is the most compelling thing on the show. At this point, either possible outcome (Mickie: "I adored you, I've sacrificed myself for you, and all I want from you is a little respect and you can't give it" or Trish finally and angrily asserting herself to her plucky over-caffeinated little admirer) would work at this point. The faces' dynamic with the always-good Victoria and Candice, who has developed some great heel mannerisms, and her hanging choke in the corner is the new guilty-pleasure spot in wrestling.

Maria is an absolute revelation and basically steals the show for me. Her wide-eyed high-voiced interviews are tremendous, and she LEANED INTO that Angle Slam like a champ last night and stuck that landing better than most of the roster.

The main event was the first time in a long time I saw fire and dug a Cena performance. His "F this, I know I'm going to take a beating but I'm going to dish out as much as I can first" demeanor in his stalk to the ring was spot perfect, as was his rage when he finally got the upper hand via the chair on Masters. In a perfect world, I'd have liked to have seen more than two shots from an enraged Cena to Masters' knee, but that's nit-picking at this point.

Added bonus from Cena's performance was the seeds now exist for an eventual heel turn; whether that was intentional or a happy accident remains to be seen.

I don't have a problem with Cena's (admittedly sloppy) STF - I'm pretty sure a man that "fights" for a living could adequately choke the fight out of a stunned opponent. I would have rather seen the "Rocky tenaciously strangling Thunderlips" spot from Rocky III, but again I am nit-picking.

The other thing during the main event was the camera shot on Angle trying to fight his way out of the Masterlock, which made me all sorts of uncomfortable in light of all the "Angle Death Watch" talk from the past couple of weeks. Kurt's enraged and frighteningly reddened face and his disproportioned physique and head really made me feel bad watching this.

Watching Kurt's entire run in the WWE has been a joy and Kurt has been one of my favourites for a while now. Part of me is hoping that the McMahons' "Taking Out the Trash" next Monday is a turfing of Kurt (a la Chris Jericho when he couldn't get the beat off Cena despite numerous attempts) to give Kurt a few months off to get himself right and work through his documented personal problems.

The Big Show slapping away HHH's microphone was metadramatically funny, I do enjoy a pissed-off Big Show.

***Of course, I reserve the right to change this if Shane truly does become the Raw GM and he becomes an annoying, overbearing and omnipresent fixture like his little sister used to be.***
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#20 Posted on 29.11.05 1857.47
Reposted on: 29.11.12 1858.43
All this talk about Duke The Dumpster and not a word about Torrie Wilson's boots? Looked like The Berzerker out there...
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Related threads: RAW #652 11/21/05 - RAW #651 11/14/05 A Tribute to Eddie Guerrero - RAW #650 11/7/05 - More...
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