Lise
Mrs. Guru
Level: 74
   
Posts: 224/1275
EXP: 3537870
For next: 115691
Since: 11.12.01
Since last post: 986 days
Last activity: 759 days
|  #1 Posted on 11.11.05 1648.07
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1648.31 | http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=23921409
I'm posting, partly just to stir the pot and get some posts in here, and partly because I logically don't think that Sony could put copy protection that would prevent rented, or borrowed games from working and still get a major market share of the new console market.
Please tell me that someone has seen something official that disputes this. | Promote this thread! |             | BigSteve
Pepperoni
Level: 67
Posts: 865/1091
EXP: 2569394
For next: 23492
Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD
Since last post: 4181 days
Last activity: 3909 days
| #2 Posted on 11.11.05 1652.48
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1654.28 | | If I'm understanding this right, this is ludicrous. What if my PS3 breaks, and I need to buy a new one? Wouldn't that mean that my games are worthless and that I need to buy the same games again? If this is true, companies (well, Sony at least) is going too far with their anti-piracy tactics. | Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator
Level: 145
Posts: 3539/6154
EXP: 37522101
For next: 82071
Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR
Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 10 days
| #3 Posted on 11.11.05 1659.26
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1700.27 | You are reading it correctly, but - there is a big but here - the patent referenced is not confirmed to be on the console. The odds are that this will be something they try to work into their new DVD standard for home sale DVDs.
That would still suck though. I like buying used DVDs.
//edit: clarification is good. I realize the article is on a games site about the console. Right now it is speculation that the patent will apply to the PS3. I think it is probably not going to. But hey, I make Cheese, not DVDs.
(edited by Guru Zim on 11.11.05 1403) | cranlsn
Toulouse
Level: 72
Posts: 779/1228
EXP: 3317297
For next: 6481
Since: 18.3.02
From: Hartland, WI
Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
|  #4 Posted on 11.11.05 1703.34
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1704.03 | I don't see that being a big hit with companies like NetFlix, Blockbuster and the like...let alone consumers.
Plus wouldn't that mean you could only play it on ONE DVD player??? That completely defeats the purpose of buying kids films...you can ship them off to whatever room you're not in.
...P.S... Sorry for further hi-jacking this away from a "Video Games" thread. | David Adams
Kishke
Level: 44
Posts: 284/390
EXP: 597434
For next: 13855
Since: 2.1.02
From: NJ
Since last post: 431 days
Last activity: 16 days
| AIM: |  |
| | |
| #5 Posted on 11.11.05 1703.54
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1704.04 | Are they going to use the same DRM software that caused This? (news.yahoo.com)
Of course when your anti-piracy software is vulnerable to exploits, I guess it Pisses off your customers and makes you think twice (news.yahoo.com)
Great job there Sony. | Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator
Level: 145
Posts: 3540/6154
EXP: 37522101
For next: 82071
Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR
Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 10 days
| #6 Posted on 11.11.05 1705.43
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1707.08 | No, this one reads an authorization code on the disc, then destroys the code after it is authorized on the player, making the disc unplayable anywhere else.
The DMCA will make it illegal to circumvent this "copy protection" device, even though it isn't a copy protection at all, but a playback limitation.
I expect the EFF will be all over this here pretty soon. | Lise
Mrs. Guru
Level: 74
Posts: 225/1275
EXP: 3537870
For next: 115691
Since: 11.12.01
Since last post: 986 days
Last activity: 759 days
| #7 Posted on 11.11.05 1706.24
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1707.36 | | Would the console have write priviledges on the game disc, or is Sony going to have the disks themselves have a unique serial that the console is somehow going to log and beam directly to some global network? This whole idea doesn't seem to make sense. | Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator
Level: 145
Posts: 3541/6154
EXP: 37522101
For next: 82071
Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR
Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 10 days
| #8 Posted on 11.11.05 1708.35
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1708.48 | The auth code is destroyable on the disc. Whether this means that the disc will have an RW area on it or that the player will simply pit/scratch/laser out the area is probably in the patent.
I admit, I skimmed through two or three articles on this yesterday, I was more interesting in the Van Zant DRM rootkit issue, but I kept running into this one. | EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc
Level: 98
Posts: 1275/2470
EXP: 9521768
For next: 132619
Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart
Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 13 min.
| #9 Posted on 11.11.05 1837.48
Reposted on: 11.11.12 1837.50 | As pointed out here, there's no way this makes it onto the PS3, at least for general games. I could maybe see this applying to demos or one-time-only specialty items. I would think, though, rather than obliterate the rental and second hand business, Sony would rather get in on the action. Much like how their Station Exchange is legitimizing the eBaying of MMOG content.
All Sony is doing with this (and the rootkit, and the update to Star Wars Galaxies) is pissing off their customers/fan base. It must not be a good month to work in the Sony PR department. All I can do is wonder how different a company Sony would be had Betamax won out all those years ago... | Jaguar
Knackwurst
Level: 111
Posts: 3122/3282
EXP: 14559159
For next: 309247
Since: 23.1.02
From: In a Blue State finally
Since last post: 507 days
Last activity: 310 days
| #10 Posted on 11.11.05 2007.08
Reposted on: 11.11.12 2011.00 | This could also be a way for them to sell some kind of special "One time use" patches/games/something else. The truth is, if this were Nintendo, I'm sure people could think of a hundred ways that this patent could be used to innovate in the video game industry (and then a million ways of how it would bankrupt Nintendo). But because it's Sony, the first thing that jumps to mind is "How are they going to use this to screw us?"
I find the disparity between those two corporate images to be quite telling. | ekedolphin
Scrapple
Level: 140
Posts: 2813/5634
EXP: 32777278
For next: 509209
Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA
Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 1 day
| #11 Posted on 11.11.05 2115.53
Reposted on: 11.11.12 2116.45 | If this technology ends up on the PS3, I'm not getting one. Simple as that. I'll go with an XBox 360 (which I hadn't been planning to do), or a Revolution, but if Sony fucks its consumers like this, then fuck Sony.
However, I doubt very much they'd be able to do this-- it doesn't sound remotely legal to me. | EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc
Level: 98
Posts: 1277/2470
EXP: 9521768
For next: 132619
Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart
Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 13 min.
| #12 Posted on 11.11.05 2328.02
Reposted on: 11.11.12 2329.01 | Originally posted by Jaguar
The truth is, if this were Nintendo, I'm sure people could think of a hundred ways that this patent could be used to innovate in the video game industry (and then a million ways of how it would bankrupt Nintendo). But because it's Sony, the first thing that jumps to mind is "How are they going to use this to screw us?"
I find the disparity between those two corporate images to be quite telling.
I'll admit that there's sortof a fanboyish attitude towards Nintendo of late, and Nintendo does make moves to protect its content, but this sort of patent in no way would be praised if Nintendo did it. It might be glossed over in the press, but the problem is that this is coming from a company which is part of the RIAA, and has a history of trying to impose DRM onto its customers. (Again, I'll cite the rootkit story.) Didn't Sony even miss out on the MP3 player market by trying to force their format (ATRAC?) instead of allowing MP3s to be played.) Its not so much that Nintendo's earned their pass from the media, but Sony hasn't done much to foster goodwill with anyone of late. | Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator
Level: 145
Posts: 3542/6154
EXP: 37522101
For next: 82071
Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR
Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 10 days
| #13 Posted on 12.11.05 0142.18
Reposted on: 12.11.12 0142.47 | | I find it hard to believe that anyone would welcome Nintendo locking down their discs to just one player. My wife and I, for example, both have PS2s. I just mailed her FFX after I finished it. I send games to my brother in law after I finish them. I can't imagine buying games for a system where I couldn't do this. It doesn't matter what name is on the system. | Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator
Level: 136
Posts: 2842/5283
EXP: 29785888
For next: 311104
Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.
Since last post: 402 days
Last activity: 344 days
| #14 Posted on 12.11.05 0923.36
Reposted on: 12.11.12 0923.48 | I could see this on the Japanese PS3 but not the North American one.
In Japan, it is illegal to sell your games. They have strict laws about that. Only the stores have the right to distribute the games, not the end buyer. This would prevent illegal reselling if the games in Japan.
There are no such laws here, so it would be a huge mistake to do it here. I borrow my friends games and vice/versa all the time. If I like them or get hooked (like with Burnout Revenge) I'll buy my own copy. Sony would lose almost all of my business if this "protection" was implemented here. | Oliver
Scrapple
Level: 132
Posts: 1859/5007
EXP: 27094168
For next: 37836
Since: 20.6.02
Since last post: 1211 days
Last activity: 1204 days
|  #15 Posted on 12.11.05 1017.39
Reposted on: 12.11.12 1018.13 | I rarely buy games new; I either wait for them to arrive in the USED section of EB GAMES or show up in the discount GREATEST HITS series.
Anyhow, I don't doubt for a second that if this type of technology is introduced for the PS3, there will be a way to go around it introduced shortly afterward. | ShotGunShep
Frankfurter
Level: 61
Posts: 715/836
EXP: 1809309
For next: 67298
Since: 20.2.03
Since last post: 3877 days
Last activity: 3764 days
| #16 Posted on 12.11.05 1025.18
Reposted on: 12.11.12 1025.18 | | If make games 20 dollars, so be it. Otherwise they are shooting themselves in the foot. | drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator
Level: 121
Posts: 2664/4025
EXP: 19625999
For next: 430755
Since: 22.4.02
From: Outside of Boston
Since last post: 70 days
Last activity: 20 days
| #17 Posted on 12.11.05 1151.27
Reposted on: 12.11.12 1151.43 | Originally posted by Zeruel
I could see this on the Japanese PS3 but not the North American one.
In Japan, it is illegal to sell your games. They have strict laws about that. Only the stores have the right to distribute the games, not the end buyer. This would prevent illegal reselling if the games in Japan.
There are no such laws here, so it would be a huge mistake to do it here. I borrow my friends games and vice/versa all the time. If I like them or get hooked (like with Burnout Revenge) I'll buy my own copy. Sony would lose almost all of my business if this "protection" was implemented here.
The only thing about that is if Sony figures that it'd be easier to leave that protection in non-Japan PS3's, then they'll be creating tons of ill will in the name of their convenience.
I'd also imagine this would probably stop any importing, as it seems they'd stop the games from running if no check is ever run. | Tribal Prophet
Andouille
Level: 91
Posts: 1180/2072
EXP: 7311609
For next: 157332
Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Since last post: 832 days
Last activity: 92 days
| #18 Posted on 15.11.05 0303.42
Reposted on: 15.11.12 0303.49 | (This post isn't an endorsement of chips in game systems at all, but I'll understand completely if someone decides to delete it because replies start heading that way. I just wanted to go a little into Sony's previous failure with stopping game copying and how they haven't learned anything)
The entire irony of this is that Sony has learned similar lessons in the past with copy protection in it's games.
I remember towards the end of the PS1 days, games started coming out that would detect if you had a chip in it and wouldn't boot if they found one. This was their 'miracle' way to keep people from playing copied games (renting games and then copying). All it ended up doing was *increase* the piracy though because now if someone had a chipped PS1, they didn't even have the option of buying the original no matter how much they wanted, if they wanted the game, Sony was telling them they'd have to keep their money and get a copy with the protection removed.
I have no doubt that if Sony actually is stupid enough to put this kind of 'copy protection' in their systems, the very first thing that the first round of chips do will be to override the check. Now Sony's given people an option: Either buy every game you want to play, or else get a chip so you can try out a friends (and then *please* don't just make a copy on whatever media it's possible to do so on, we'd like you to ignore the chip you had to buy to test the game and still buy a new disk for $80)
Tribal Prophet | Oliver
Scrapple
Level: 132
Posts: 1872/5007
EXP: 27094168
For next: 37836
Since: 20.6.02
Since last post: 1211 days
Last activity: 1204 days
| #19 Posted on 15.11.05 0910.17
Reposted on: 15.11.12 0910.48 | Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
All it ended up doing was *increase* the piracy though because now if someone had a chipped PS1, they didn't even have the option of buying the original no matter how much they wanted, if they wanted the game, Sony was telling them they'd have to keep their money and get a copy with the protection removed.
The easy wasy to get around any of that was to boot up the system with a Game Shark and then start the game like normal; I didn't have any problems getting anything going.
My biggest hassle was actually burning the games. I tried to backup a copy of Tobal No. 1 and just couldn't really do it quite right.
-O
(edited by Oliver on 15.11.05 0810) | EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc
Level: 98
Posts: 1281/2470
EXP: 9521768
For next: 132619
Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart
Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 13 min.
| #20 Posted on 16.11.05 0623.27
Reposted on: 16.11.12 0623.40 | A Sony rep is saying this won't be in the PS3 (shacknews.com).
Originally posted by Sony rep
I would like to clarify that this is false speculation and that PlayStation 3 software will not be copy protected to a single machine but will be playable on any PlayStation 3 console.
Hopefully, this is indeed true. | | ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
