The W
Views: 95654629
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
19.4.07 1442
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - The Warrior Responds
This thread has 3 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 Next(1186 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (66 total)
rv581
Goetta
Level: 38

Posts: 150/306
EXP: 345075
For next: 25375

Since: 2.12.02

Since last post: 1296 days
Last activity: 466 days
#41 Posted on 29.9.05 1106.52
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1108.45
    Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOG
    I find his whole response quite ridiculous, but the part that irked me most for some reason was his knock on Triple H.

    Sure, it's popular to rip on the guy, but calling him "the biggest unprofessional asshole the business has ever seen"? Huh? Where is he getting this from? "Unpopular" "Self-promoter" "Jerk", fine. But unprofessional?

    Without angering the anti-HHH contingent too much, here's a guy who sells for almost all of his opponents, be they Benjamin, Batista or Eugene. Mark my words, Warrior would have never made Eugene look like a threat. Do they all get a win over HHH? Not at all. Yet when its the right thing for business, he's dropped the belt to Goldberg, dropped the belt to Benoit, dropped the belt to Batista.

    Look, I'm not arguing over whether HHH is looking out mostly for himself; we know the answer to that. I'm saying that he's never injured anyone, never held the company hostage for more money, never walked out over a dispute, and never no-sold someone's finisher. That makes HHH much more of a professional in my book that Warrior could ever hope to be.


Was the Ultimate Warrior unprofessional? Well, it depends. If you define professionalism as how well you interact with ownership, management, and your peers... then UW was highly unprofessional. But if you define professionalism by achieving amazing success -- as an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, mind you -- in a cutthroat industry while so thoroughly protecting your mystique that a DVD promising to shed greater light on who you really are would sell like hotcakes... then that's REMARKABLE professionalism.

Several things can be true at the same time. It *is* true that the UW is a screwy, mean-spirited egoist who greatly overstates his own importance while acting in a juvenile & petty manner. It's also true that -- at his peak, which coincided with pro wrestling being insanely popular -- the UW was the single most marketable man in his industry. At his peak, he was more popular & more marketable than the Undertaker, Flair, Road Warriors, Brett Hart, Sting, HHH, Benoit, Yokozuna, Savage, Michaels, etc. were during their respective peaks (albeit those folks vastly surpassed the UW in other important categories, including longevity). It's the reason why the WWE devoted so much time, energy, and resources to making & promoting this DVD.

It's *also* true that McMahon can be a petty, juvenile, and mean-spirited egoist who greatly overstates his own contributions to the development of his talent as well. I would imagine that, the internet community aside, the UW probably has more fans than detractors. It's also probably true that a complimentary DVD of UW (one that he particpated in & helped promote via appearances, interviews, etc.) would sell better than a DVD that's so negative. But the UW opted not to participate, so the WWE decided to attack his work, his contributions, and who he is as a person.

(Frankly, I think the UW is more than able to come across as an arrogant, unlikeable blowhard WITHOUT the WWE's help, too... but so is Hogan & lots of other pro wrestling stars.)

Neither the UW, the WWE, or Vince McMahon himself can accuse the other of being "self destructive" without also living in a glass house.
Jim Smith
Goetta
Level: 37

Posts: 130/303
EXP: 310760
For next: 27496

Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2113 days
Last activity: 1544 days
#42 Posted on 29.9.05 1334.04
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1334.46
    Originally posted by rv581
    Was the Ultimate Warrior unprofessional? Well, it depends. If you define professionalism as how well you interact with ownership, management, and your peers... then UW was highly unprofessional. But if you define professionalism by achieving amazing success -- as an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, mind you -- in a cutthroat industry while so thoroughly protecting your mystique that a DVD promising to shed greater light on who you really are would sell like hotcakes... then that's REMARKABLE professionalism.


Except that the DVD that's selling like hotcakes trashes the character's mystique. If Warrior were so good at preserving his status in the industry, WWE wouldn't be able to produce this hatchet job. To put it another way--can you picture WWE giving Ric Flair or Mick Foley this kind of treatment?

(Obviously if WWE wants to bury a legend they'll find a way even if none exists. But with Warrior in particular there was no end to dirt to dig up on him, and a line forming around the block to badmouth him, so I don't think he protected his mystique as well as he might have.)

If we're going to debate whether Warrior or HHH have the right to call one another "unprofessional," though, I think we have to use their definition, which seems to be the standard "doesn't make other guys look good" criticism levelled against both men. And on that I have to go with Canadian Bulldog--HHH occasionally makes guys look good, and I can't remember Warrior ever making anyone look good.

Even if you define "unprofessional" as "failing to excel in one's profession," HHH has set himself up where he can win world titles at will, and Warrior spent most of his career burning bridges with the wrestling industry. You could take this to mean that HHH is a corporate ass-kisser and Warrior refuses to betray his principles, in which case Warrior would be the better man. But that doesn't have any bearing on who is the better professional.

    Originally posted by rv581
    Several things can be true at the same time. It *is* true that the UW is a screwy, mean-spirited egoist who greatly overstates his own importance while acting in a juvenile & petty manner.

    [...]

    It's *also* true that McMahon can be a petty, juvenile, and mean-spirited egoist who greatly overstates his own contributions to the development of his talent as well.


I think people need to keep both of these facts in mind. It bewilders me when I see people in this thread declaring Warrior to be a great guy because he trashed that asshole Vince, or declaring Vince to be a great guy because he trashed that nutjob Warrior. They're both pompous jerks. It just happens that one jerk wrote a long boring essay and the other jerk released a DVD with cool footage in it.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator
Level: 129

Posts: 1137/5115
EXP: 24569040
For next: 480681

Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 19 min.
#43 Posted on 29.9.05 1409.53
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1410.05
    Originally posted by r-v-#s
    At his peak, he was more popular & more marketable than the Undertaker, Flair, Road Warriors, Brett Hart, Sting, HHH, Benoit, Yokozuna, Savage, Michaels, etc. were during their respective peaks (albeit those folks vastly surpassed the UW in other important categories, including longevity).


I don't think I'd go that far. What do you consider his peak as and how are you defining popularity? Sting, for instance, at his peak in 1997 was a bigger deal going into his match with Hogan than the Warrior ever was. Randy Savage's title reign with Hogan gone in 1989 was far more successful than Warrior's in the same position the next year. Triple H's peak in 2000 directly coincided with the most profitable year in company history.

There's no denying that Warrior was incredibly popular at the end of the 80s, but I don't know by what criteria he'd be considered a bigger deal than most of those other names at their respective peaks. Especially since Warrior bombed in his run with the belt as #1 babyface.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 29.9.05 1512)
Tribal Prophet
Andouille
Level: 86

Posts: 1131/2025
EXP: 6101107
For next: 41024

Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#44 Posted on 29.9.05 1418.42
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1418.48
    Originally posted by rv581
    Was the Ultimate Warrior unprofessional? Well, it depends. If you define professionalism as how well you interact with ownership, management, and your peers... then UW was highly unprofessional. But if you define professionalism by achieving amazing success -- as an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, mind you -- in a cutthroat industry while so thoroughly protecting your mystique that a DVD promising to shed greater light on who you really are would sell like hotcakes... then that's REMARKABLE professionalism.


No one defines professionalism that way. That's just "successful", but has nothing at all to do with being professional. You could say "if you define 'purple' as wearing arm tassles, then he was always purple" but it still doesn't make him purple because it's just a made-up definition.

Professionalism only has your first definition, so yes, he was (and still is) incredibly unprofessional. Funny to read about, but not in the way I think he wants it to be.


Tribal Prophet
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst
Level: 72

Posts: 846/1347
EXP: 3284158
For next: 39620

Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 36 min.
AIM:  
#45 Posted on 29.9.05 1503.11
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1503.33
    Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOG
    I find his whole response quite ridiculous, but the part that irked me most for some reason was his knock on Triple H.

    Sure, it's popular to rip on the guy, but calling him "the biggest unprofessional asshole the business has ever seen"? Huh? Where is he getting this from? "Unpopular" "Self-promoter" "Jerk", fine. But unprofessional?

    Without angering the anti-HHH contingent too much, here's a guy who sells for almost all of his opponents, be they Benjamin, Batista or Eugene. Mark my words, Warrior would have never made Eugene look like a threat. Do they all get a win over HHH? Not at all. Yet when its the right thing for business, he's dropped the belt to Goldberg, dropped the belt to Benoit, dropped the belt to Batista.

    Look, I'm not arguing over whether HHH is looking out mostly for himself; we know the answer to that. I'm saying that he's never injured anyone, never held the company hostage for more money, never walked out over a dispute, and never no-sold someone's finisher. That makes HHH much more of a professional in my book that Warrior could ever hope to be.
Eh, it's been a while since I've gone negative on HHH. I think I'm due.

HHH has no-sold many a finisher in his day. The Tazmission, the Crippler Crossface, being dropped from a car 50-feet in the air (admittedly, not a finisher), etc. He's a better worker and he gives more back to his opponents, no doubt about it, but he's not innocent of that. He's had more than a few "super-human" moments.

As far as Warrior's comments about HHH's lack of "professionalism," I think we need to revisit the context. Warrior wasn't throwing rocks from a glass house here. He was likening HHH to himself. He was saying that all of HHH's criticisms are actually HHH projecting himself on to the Warrior when, now at the top, he has fallen into the same mold of "guy at the top."

HHH criticized Warrior for being "unprofessional" because he was supposed to be cannon fodder at WrestleMania 12. Guess what? He was cannon fodder at the time! He just came off a feud with Duke "The Dumpster" Droese (an underappreciated talent). He had to do the job that day, because it was Warrior's first match back. HHH tried to get a little more out of the match for his character, and I don't blame him for that, but he just wasn't in the position at the time and it wasn't the right thing to do that day.

Things are completely different since the "attitude" era made things more realistic. Back in Warrior's time, it was the world of Gods and Men. In contemporary times, wrestling does a better job masquerading as a "sport" and treating the performers as legitimate athletes, which makes for more competitive matches. Not so in Warrior's day. WrestleMania 12 was just barely the beginning of that movement.

Even still, Warrior made Andre, Earthquake, Hercules, Rick Rude, The Giant, Hulk Hogan, and a whole host of other opponents look like legitimate threats who could beat him back in the day to sell the house show and PPV matches. Credit goes to both Warrior and his opponents, just as I credit Eugene and HHH for making their angle work.

As far as Warrior's other comments on HHH, maybe there's some truth to them and maybe not. HHH and Warrior do have one major thing in common: bodybuilding. If there's one thing Warrior knows, it's how to build muscle and how not to build muscle. And I believe it when Warrior says they have a lot of mutual friends in that arena, so of course he hears things. But, there's always two sides to every story...

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 29.9.05 1446)
rv581
Goetta
Level: 38

Posts: 151/306
EXP: 345075
For next: 25375

Since: 2.12.02

Since last post: 1296 days
Last activity: 466 days
#46 Posted on 29.9.05 1520.54
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1523.25
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      Originally posted by rv581
      Was the Ultimate Warrior unprofessional? Well, it depends. If you define professionalism as how well you interact with ownership, management, and your peers... then UW was highly unprofessional. But if you define professionalism by achieving amazing success -- as an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, mind you -- in a cutthroat industry while so thoroughly protecting your mystique that a DVD promising to shed greater light on who you really are would sell like hotcakes... then that's REMARKABLE professionalism.


    No one defines professionalism that way. That's just "successful", but has nothing at all to do with being professional. You could say "if you define 'purple' as wearing arm tassles, then he was always purple" but it still doesn't make him purple because it's just a made-up definition.

    Professionalism only has your first definition, so yes, he was (and still is) incredibly unprofessional. Funny to read about, but not in the way I think he wants it to be.


    Tribal Prophet


Then, I guess, by your definition, Howard Stern isn't professional either... and neither is George Carlin, 50 Cent, Roy Jones Jr., etc., etc.

See, I follow where you're coming from, but I think you need to view the situation within the context of what the working environment IS. Howard Stern isn't professional as a regular radio guy... but within the context of being a shock jock, he's VERY professional.

Likewise for the UW. He was an independent contractor, working in a company that denies traditional benefits, health care, etc. -- and won't hesitate to fire someone after turning them into a complete joke. UW took this into account (I assume), became one of the most popular wrestlers of all-time, moved a shitload worth of merchandise, never hurt anyone in the ring (that I can recall), made millions, and did such a stupendous job at protecting his mystique (and his brand) that a DVD about him is gonna make HUGE money.

Wrestlers need to be more loyal to their OWN brand than the brand they work for -- and within this limited context, the UW *was* professional. Not professional as a WWE employee (which he never was, I don't believe), but professional as an independent contractor in the dog-eat-dog, watch-your-back world of pro wrestling.

Did I do a grotesque enough job at splitting gramatical hairs? :)
geemoney
Scrapple
Level: 111

Posts: 1677/3756
EXP: 14741084
For next: 127322

Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 26 min.
AIM:  
#47 Posted on 29.9.05 1840.10
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1840.12
Apparently, WWE parodied The Warrior using Matt Striker dressed up as the Ultimate one on Byte This. I'd read the report from the show, and it sounded pretty funny. But now WWE has almost an apology up for "going too far" with the skit. I didn't read anything terribly offensive that went on- did anyone watch this, and if so, did I miss something?
CTX
Salami
Level: 34

Posts: 78/231
EXP: 231846
For next: 21808

Since: 11.5.02

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#48 Posted on 29.9.05 1856.14
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1856.22
    Originally posted by Jim Smith
    To put it another way--can you picture WWE giving Ric Flair or Mick Foley this kind of treatment?

    (Obviously if WWE wants to bury a legend they'll find a way even if none exists. But with Warrior in particular there was no end to dirt to dig up on him, and a line forming around the block to badmouth him, so I don't think he protected his mystique as well as he might have.

Not that I would even dream of trying to defend the deluded fool, but you must remember that's exactly what they had planned for the Bret Hart DVD before he signed on to the project. They even showed Bret loads of interview footage of pretty much everyone other than Benoit burying him that would have comprised the bulk of the DVD had he done the same as Warrior and not agreed to sign up.

    Originally posted by geemoney
    I didn't read anything terribly offensive that went on- did anyone watch this, and if so, did I miss something?

They pretty much had a huge laugh while accusing him of taking horse steroids and whatnot. I believe they edited a lot of the comments out of the archived show, probably in case they were giving Warrior grade A material for a lawsuit over slander (or libel, whichever one it is).
Tribal Prophet
Andouille
Level: 86

Posts: 1132/2025
EXP: 6101107
For next: 41024

Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#49 Posted on 29.9.05 1926.03
Reposted on: 29.9.12 1926.11
    Originally posted by rv581
    Then, I guess, by your definition, Howard Stern isn't professional either... and neither is George Carlin, 50 Cent, Roy Jones Jr., etc., etc.

    See, I follow where you're coming from, but I think you need to view the situation within the context of what the working environment IS. Howard Stern isn't professional as a regular radio guy... but within the context of being a shock jock, he's VERY professional.

    Likewise for the UW. He was an independent contractor, working in a company that denies traditional benefits, health care, etc. -- and won't hesitate to fire someone after turning them into a complete joke. UW took this into account (I assume), became one of the most popular wrestlers of all-time, moved a shitload worth of merchandise, never hurt anyone in the ring (that I can recall), made millions, and did such a stupendous job at protecting his mystique (and his brand) that a DVD about him is gonna make HUGE money.

    Wrestlers need to be more loyal to their OWN brand than the brand they work for -- and within this limited context, the UW *was* professional. Not professional as a WWE employee (which he never was, I don't believe), but professional as an independent contractor in the dog-eat-dog, watch-your-back world of pro wrestling.

    Did I do a grotesque enough job at splitting gramatical hairs? :)


I still don't think you get what I'm saying. Being successful in a career full of shitty people doesn't make you 'professional'. Is Howard Stern professional? I don't know. If he shows up on time, if he does what's asked by higher-ups without giving them shit, then yes. I'm not going to say that he's professional because he's made money, because that's still using the flawed definition. You're still thinking that "professional", especially in the context the Warrior used to badmouth Triple H, means "made money and got famous", which isn't the definition and isn't what either of the guys meant when they used it. I think it's your misunderstanding of what he's trying to say that throws everything out whack.

Like I said, if those guys you listed come in on time, honor agreements, work well (not necessarily successfully) with others within the confines of thier jobs, and don't cause problems within their circles, then they are all professional. The Warrior did none of those things, so he is not at all professional. Making money and being successful is NOT the definition of the word. You just made that part up. I don't want to do a back and forth thing here about the definition of the word you're discussing because it's a black and white thing and can't really be explained anymore. If you still don't know what the Warrior was talking about when he used it, then I'll just leave this alone.


Tribal Prophet
Jim Smith
Goetta
Level: 37

Posts: 131/303
EXP: 310760
For next: 27496

Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2113 days
Last activity: 1544 days
#50 Posted on 29.9.05 2143.36
Reposted on: 29.9.12 2143.40
    Originally posted by CTX
      Originally posted by Jim Smith
      To put it another way--can you picture WWE giving Ric Flair or Mick Foley this kind of treatment?

      (Obviously if WWE wants to bury a legend they'll find a way even if none exists. But with Warrior in particular there was no end to dirt to dig up on him, and a line forming around the block to badmouth him, so I don't think he protected his mystique as well as he might have.

    Not that I would even dream of trying to defend the deluded fool, but you must remember that's exactly what they had planned for the Bret Hart DVD before he signed on to the project.


Yeah, WWE will try to make these burial DVD about anyone who's not on board with them. I'm just saying that the bigger a jerk you are, the easier it is to make a burial DVD about you. With a guy like Bret, there's a lot more positives to talk about than negatives--the hatchet-job version sounded incredibly boring to me because I figured it'd be three hours about Montreal. With Warrior there's much more mud to sling, and he only has himself to blame for a lot of it.
I Breastfeed John Madden
Head cheese
Level: 38

Posts: 112/320
EXP: 346244
For next: 24206

Since: 13.4.04
From: Des Moines, IA

Since last post: 48 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#51 Posted on 29.9.05 2258.52
Reposted on: 29.9.12 2259.01
Funny thing about this DVD;

If it does well, Warrior can say that its because the fans are hungry for him.

If it does poorly, its because the fans aren't interested in a Warrior burial.

Either way, queering still doesn't make the world work.


flairforthegold13
Kishke
Level: 43

Posts: 92/411
EXP: 527366
For next: 37685

Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

Since last post: 2328 days
Last activity: 2315 days
AIM:  
#52 Posted on 30.9.05 0314.00
Reposted on: 30.9.12 0320.42
I'm with the posts above. This DVD is what every DVD would be if ex-employees didn't play ball and sign on. I don't care if it was Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan or Mick Foley, if you leave on bad terms and don't come back, they will bury you. Imagine how the Austin DVD would turn out if our last memory was him taking his ball and going home. History is written by the winners.

About the Warrior.
Third biggest WWF star of the Hogan era (Behind Hulk and Savage.) I consider the Hogan era to go from 84-92 (when Flair won the belt and we more or less transitioned to the Hart/Michaels era) Counts for something, they had the greatest roster in the world and only a few guys got marketed as the top guy.
Wasn't a great worker, but had a good look, could be carried to a good match.
The Honky moment is one of the seminal 80s moments. His match with Hogan was amazing and his feud with Savage was even better.
Fans who grew up during the 80s boon certainly remember the guy.
He's not Hercules or the Warlord or some shit.
This guy was a huge star. For a while he was THE MAN in the business.
His run as champ tanked but in the last 20 years more reigns than not don't draw as well as the Hogans and Flairs and Austins.

He's a bit insane, but honestly, his ranting is kinda in-line with the hardcore conservatives, I mean...the people that see Pres. Bush as a bleeding heart liberal.
That doesn't make him insane, it makes him have some wacked out beliefs.

And let's face it, this guy seems healthy, has a real job apparently (and apparently saved his money,) never been arrested, never had a scandal, apparently still married to his wife, hasn't come crawling back to wrestling, actually WON HIS TRADEMARK battle with the WWF.

Y'know credid where it's due. This guy turned far better than most 80s stars.




(edited by flairforthegold13 on 30.9.05 0116)
Wpob
Lap cheong
Level: 79

Posts: 524/1672
EXP: 4413401
For next: 166086

Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 14 hours
Last activity: 14 hours
#53 Posted on 30.9.05 0747.16
Reposted on: 30.9.12 0759.02
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    the WWF.

    Y'know credid where it's due. This guy turned far better than most 80s stars.




    (edited by flairforthegold13 on 30.9.05 0116)


That about sums it up. You are right. Outside of his rants and bizarro land speeches (which have been going on for like forever so whoever hires him to speech either knows this or did not do their homework. You hire the UW to speak you have to know what you are getting), he has lead a relatively unevental life after wrestling. No overdoesing or drug problems, no scrapping by on the Indy scene and no criminal record. Compared to most wreslters past their prime, he is doing pretty damn good.

I will always remember the UW for one of the greatest gimmicks ever. I would jump out of my seat at home when his music hit and he came racing down to the ring. When he "Warriored Up" was when I really would get pumped. I saw him live once and the crawd went absolutely nuts for him. It was a squash match but I/the crowd cheered from the time he hit the ring until he left the ramp after the pin. I felt bad for the enxt guy out becasue the crowd was spent in the 2 minutes of electricity.

He is nutty today but harmless. Who is he hurting? No one. For those of you who say he has no legacy, then he could not be tarnishing that. For those of us who say he does, this only adds to it.

As for me, I love that there are two guys out there who Vince can never get his hands on again, Sting and UW. Brothers in paint.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst
Level: 72

Posts: 848/1347
EXP: 3284158
For next: 39620

Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 36 min.
AIM:  
#54 Posted on 30.9.05 0918.28
Reposted on: 30.9.12 0919.18
Watched the DVD last night. I thought it was actually pretty good, and it was refreshing to see them talk about Warrior's positive attributes. Most of their criticisms were about Warrior's lack of professionalism backstage ("Wouldn't shake hands", "Didn't appreciate his success", etc) and how he, apparently literally, put a gun to Vince's head.

But, overall, most everyone on the DVD admitted that Warrior was talented (just not in the ring) and unique, and had a niche in the 1980s era of Heavy Metal/Rambo, so they at least got across that this was a popular, appealing character who brought a lot to the table at the time. And that's all true. Jericho even said he thought Warrior was underrated in the ring, and I don't even think that.

Jim Ross and DiBiase were the harshest. Heenan was sorta, but I can never tell with him because he's one of those guys who could always be in character. Heenan mentioned that "Warrior just pressed him over his head and let him drop to the mat" as if Warrior executed the move improperly, but that's exactly how the move went. There is no way to really protect your opponent on a Press Slam, and in the footage they used, Heenan rolled off Warrior's back safely to the ground. I didn't quite get that. It seemed as if he was just making that up or playing the heel manager still.

    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    His run as champ tanked but in the last 20 years more reigns than not don't draw as well as the Hogans and Flairs and Austins.
And another thing, not even Hogan was able to pull in the same numbers he used to when he came back for Reigns 3, 4, and 5. It's not always indicative of the talent, but also the direction of the company. Warrior's reign certainly wasn't as popular as Hogan's, but I don't exactly see that as a failure either.

    Originally posted by Wpob
    As for me, I love that there are two guys out there who Vince can never get his hands on again, Sting and UW. Brothers in paint.
Seeing this really makes me want to see a Sting DVD now. Since Sting is generally well-liked in the business, I can't see them going negative on it. He maintained good relationships with Jim Ross, Ric Flair, and his dealings with Vince were all positive even though he never crossed over. With the Road Warriors DVD and the Warrior DVD, I would imagine Sting is next in the "face painted wrestlers" DVD genre.

Anyone know how to access the easter egg of guys like Benoit doing Warrior impersonations? Or was that all just a rumor?
Ukrainian Justice
Linguica
Level: 19

Posts: 35/67
EXP: 34809
For next: 968

Since: 8.4.03
From: Bryn Mawr, PA

Since last post: 2612 days
Last activity: 2464 days
#55 Posted on 30.9.05 0926.51
Reposted on: 30.9.12 0927.06
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    and how he, apparently literally, put a gun to Vince's head.



Do you really think Warrior put a gun to Vince's head?

Vince makes sure to use the word "figuratively" when describing Warrior putting a gun to his head right before Summerslam 91.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst
Level: 72

Posts: 849/1347
EXP: 3284158
For next: 39620

Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 36 min.
AIM:  
#56 Posted on 30.9.05 0928.45
Reposted on: 30.9.12 0929.01
    Originally posted by Ukrainian Justice
    Do you really think Warrior put a gun to Vince's head?
(*Whoosh!*)

EDIT: I realize Vince said figuratively, but with the music playing and Hogan's comments, you would think that Warrior really did pull out a gun. (And, no, I don't mean THAT literally, either)

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 30.9.05 0739)
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator
Level: 210

Posts: 6906/15936
EXP: 135158163
For next: 1296793

Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 16 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#57 Posted on 30.9.05 0931.49
Reposted on: 30.9.12 0932.31
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
      Originally posted by Ukrainian Justice
      Do you really think Warrior put a gun to Vince's head?
    (*Whoosh!*)
See, he was arguing "literally" vs. "figuratively" (which you kinda neglected to quote) which probably means I should just delete ALL your posts because this can only end in tears.
rv581
Goetta
Level: 38

Posts: 152/306
EXP: 345075
For next: 25375

Since: 2.12.02

Since last post: 1296 days
Last activity: 466 days
#58 Posted on 30.9.05 1025.32
Reposted on: 30.9.12 1029.03
    Originally posted by Wpob
      Originally posted by flairforthegold13
      the WWF.

      Y'know credid where it's due. This guy turned far better than most 80s stars.




      (edited by flairforthegold13 on 30.9.05 0116)


    That about sums it up. You are right. Outside of his rants and bizarro land speeches (which have been going on for like forever so whoever hires him to speech either knows this or did not do their homework. You hire the UW to speak you have to know what you are getting), he has lead a relatively unevental life after wrestling. No overdoesing or drug problems, no scrapping by on the Indy scene and no criminal record. Compared to most wreslters past their prime, he is doing pretty damn good.

    I will always remember the UW for one of the greatest gimmicks ever. I would jump out of my seat at home when his music hit and he came racing down to the ring. When he "Warriored Up" was when I really would get pumped. I saw him live once and the crawd went absolutely nuts for him. It was a squash match but I/the crowd cheered from the time he hit the ring until he left the ramp after the pin. I felt bad for the enxt guy out becasue the crowd was spent in the 2 minutes of electricity.

    He is nutty today but harmless. Who is he hurting? No one. For those of you who say he has no legacy, then he could not be tarnishing that. For those of us who say he does, this only adds to it.

    As for me, I love that there are two guys out there who Vince can never get his hands on again, Sting and UW. Brothers in paint.


Very good post!

When you examine the lives of the WWF stars of UW's era, there are very few winners, a whole lot of losers, and sadly, MANY more deaths. I'll bet that about 50% of the WWF's top-20 talent of the late 80s/ early 90s either failed to live past age 50, or ended up in legal trouble.

Meanwhile, their promoter & company owner is a billionaire -- while STILL denying his talent health care coverage, vacation days, a pension, etc. (Which is McMahon's right, of course, but I'm trying to view this through the eccentric eyes of UW.) It doesn't seem entirely equitable, does it? And on a near-yearly basis, wrestlers with WWE/F ties continue to die before reaching age 50.

From the UW's vantage point, he joined the WWF as an independent contractor. He generated FAR more money for the company than they paid him -- via merchandise, TV, live shows, etc. He reached the pinacle of success. Still, he had to take McMahon to court in order to protect his legal rights (and he won that case, I believe). He made his money in the business, got out when the creative direction wasn't to his liking, and uses his celebrity to advocate the beliefs he holds.

Meanwhile, the UW saw what happened to his peer group. He saw what happened to Brett Hart. He saw angles involving things like gay weddings & necrophilia. He saw McMahon give interviews where he admits cheating on his wife. He saw those older wrestlers trying to scap on by to put food on the table, praying for another run with the company. He saw the WWE use its power to ridicule & humiliate the people McMahon doesn't like. He saw McMahon discard human beings, treating them as purely expendable.

His conclusion: McMahon is slime, and much about this industry absolutely sucks.

And it's NOT a conclusion that's entirely off-base.

The funny thing is, SO MUCH of McMahon & UW are near-identical. Both are pro-military, very conservative on business issues -- and both hold organized religion in low regard. Both take pride in being self-reliant, while disdaining those who depend on others for their well-being. Both hate whiners. Both are gym-rats. Both are ego-centric, vastly overstating their own importance. Both will use their bully pulpit to cruely belittle those they don't like. The UW's behavior & conduct in the WWE what VERY SIMILAR to McMahon's behavior & conduct towards his company's talent; they both operated solely out of their own selfish self-interest -- often to the detriment of others -- without apologies or regret.

And both are probably too obtuse to see the similarities.
Pizza Delivery Jones
Chourico
Level: 36

Posts: 130/282
EXP: 283465
For next: 24648

Since: 27.6.04

Since last post: 678 days
Last activity: 606 days
#59 Posted on 30.9.05 1531.13
Reposted on: 30.9.12 1534.01
I've got to agree with a lot of what RV581 and FlairForTheGold said. Warrior did turn out better than a lot of 80's stars. There are plenty of other former WWE stars who could be the stars of "The Self Destruction of" DVD's. Rick Rude, Curt Hennig, Davey Boy Smith, Kerry Von Erich and Elizabeth could all get their own self destruction sets. And in their cases the the title would be appropriate. Too bad Vince doesn't want to make cash off of stories about how the guys he liked were hooked on drugs, and died of overdoses, because i'm sure there are plenty of great stories to be told...

The only reason Warrior is the subject of the burial is because he's moved beyond wrestling and isn't going to crawl back to help Vince make a few bucks. Warrior isn't Roddy Piper...

(edited by Pizza Delivery Jones on 30.9.05 1332)
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator
Level: 129

Posts: 1138/5115
EXP: 24569040
For next: 480681

Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 19 min.
#60 Posted on 30.9.05 1555.31
Reposted on: 30.9.12 1556.13
    Originally posted by flairfortheOLD
    About the Warrior.
    Third biggest WWF star of the Hogan era (Behind Hulk and Savage.)


I guess you you can say Andre was actually a star of the 70s, even though he was in main events as late as '89, but there's no way Warrior was a bigger star than Piper.

    Originally posted by Sklokazoid
    And another thing, not even Hogan was able to pull in the same numbers he used to when he came back for Reigns 3, 4, and 5. It's not always indicative of the talent, but also the direction of the company. Warrior's reign certainly wasn't as popular as Hogan's, but I don't exactly see that as a failure either.


I know, but the point I was trying to make is that just because someone (myself included) really liked the Ultimate Warrior when they were little and remember him being a big star doesn't mean that he really was as successful as someone we remember as being such a big deal.

There's no question he had incredible momentum before winning the belt. But his run with the title wasn't just "not as popular as Hulk Hogan," it was a genuine slump for what had been a hot company, and unlike Randy Savage in 1989, Warrior couldn't sustain the momentum while Hogan was gone filming a movie. They changed plans for Wrestlemania 7 from Hogan/Warrior to Hogan/Slaughter for a reason, after all, and it was that Warrior was a cold champion and they didn't think there was money in the rematch.

What I am trying to say is that memories of him as the most awesomest notwithstanding, it's important to make the distinction that Warrior never actually was THE MAN IN THIS BUSINESS, he was just a guy who was really popular for a while, but didn't actually pan out when he was the top banana.

    Originally posted by wpob
    As for me, I love that there are two guys out there who Vince can never get his hands on again, Sting and UW. Brothers in paint.


That's Sting and Vampiro.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 30.9.05 1701)
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 NextThread ahead: YOUR late SMACKDOWN COMIX FOR 9/30/2005!
Next thread: Heat and Velocity move to WWE.com
Previous thread: Raw Commercial on Prime Time NBC
(1186 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Related threads: Ahmed Johnson article - Tentative line-up for the Bret Hart DVD due out this year - Sunny coming back to WWE? - More...
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - The Warrior RespondsRegister and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.454 seconds.