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23.7.07 0901
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Kyoto now!
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Gavintzu
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#1 Posted on 27.4.02 1435.30
Reposted on: 27.4.09 1437.44
Click Here to read about how 2002 has been the warmest year (in Britain) in 1000 years (or so some biased scientists are saying). Sea levels are rising, flowers are blooming earlier and earlier, the weather is wonky all over ...

Remember when the standard response was to deny a trend of global warming? Then it was to pooh-pooh human's responsibility behind it? Now it's to complain that Kyoto will cost billions of dollars to implement and hurt the First Worlds' economies.

It's time to shit or get off the pot ... if we keep plowing down forests and jungles and keep pumping that carbon into the air, the national debt will be the last thing on the minds of our grandchildren in 2040. Oh wait, we'll still be fighting the The War On Terrorism then, and I'm sure the oil companies will still have a suit of their own in the White House and on Downing Street.


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CRZ
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#2 Posted on 28.4.02 1951.55
Reposted on: 28.4.09 1958.59
Forgive me, but this statistical sample is so small as to be useless.

And you can bet if it were 0.7 degrees UNDER the average, they'd have buried the results...because it doesn't help their agenda any.

Where are the temperatures of other countries in this story? If it's GLOBAL warming, why are they only talking about ONE country?
Gavintzu
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#3 Posted on 28.4.02 2213.29
Reposted on: 28.4.09 2214.32
Hey, I did admit they were biased didn't I?
Actually, I phrased my first post incorrectly. According to the Daily Telegraph, "The first three months of this year were the warmest globally since records began in 1860 and probably for 1,000 years, scientists said yesterday."

The bit about Britain said that "(t)he global record comes in the wake of observed changes in the British climate since 1900: a lengthening of the growing season for plants by one month in central England, a temperature increase of 1C, and a 10cm sea level rise."

So yeah, it has been warmer globally. Of course, given the level of interpretation the data would require for this kind of thing, I'm sure there is another group of scientists who can rubbish this result. The thing is, left-wingers in Britain label the Daily Telegraph as the "Daily TORYgraph", given its right wing stance. I think in many places, the environmental movement is losing its "left wing" stigma ... people from all over the political spectrum realize it's in EVERYONE'S interest to slow our RAPE OF MOTHER EARTH ... sorry, started to lose it a little.

I stand by my assertion about the shitting and the pot.


Qubber
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#4 Posted on 29.4.02 0447.41
Reposted on: 29.4.09 0459.01
I'm getting really scared with all you Canadians and your intimate knowledge of British life .

I believe every country has an agreed amount of emissions but the systems fails when big wealthy countries (i.e. the US) buy quotas from poor countries (i.e. India) or when bigger countries with more emissions insist that they should be allowed to produce more emssions simply because they are more developed than smaller/third world countries. This is all nonsensical because if anything is going to work it would involve all countries cutting emissions rather than finding ways to keep on producing at the same level.
bigwavedave
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#5 Posted on 29.4.02 0640.22
Reposted on: 29.4.09 0641.45
Geological evidence ( i just saw this on Discovery Channel) shows that over the past 1 million years (remember that it has been 65 since the dinos) the earth has gone through cycles of warming and cooling. these last about 100,000 years from low peak to high peak. we are in the (realative) beginning stages of a warming subcycle that started about 10,000 years ago at the begining of the end of the last ice age.

While I agree that we as humans are doing alot of continuing damage to the enviroment directly and indirectly and that we do need to change our practices at the base, global warming is an entirely naturally process that geologic activity and the relationship of the earths orbit to the sun has more of a hand in than we mere humans. All the "green" things we could do as a planet would really have an almost insignificant impact to the long term temperature cycle the earth goes through. Yes we are not helping things, but the sustained activity of the worlds volcanos are the single biggest poluter and contributer to global warming on the planet.

Lise
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#6 Posted on 2.5.02 0225.54
Reposted on: 2.5.09 0229.01
Thank you! This whole global warming thing is such a chicken little thing. Sure we need to be careful about the ozone and taking care not to kill the thing off. But the temperature statistics are pure BS. We are still technically in an ICE AGE.

Fossil records show that when the Earth is not in an ice age the Northern US and Southern bits of Canada become sub tropical areas. We've still got 20,000 years or something until that happens again according to the cycle. So until your friends in Vancouver BC start telling you its too hot to grow palm trees, I wouldn't panic.
ges7184
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#7 Posted on 2.5.02 1126.05
Reposted on: 2.5.09 1129.02
My biggest argument against the whole idea that we are creating global warming is the Ice Age. I've always figured that if the earth can go into an Ice Age without our help, it could warm up on its own as well. Is there really any reason to expect the temperature to stay the same year in and year out? I'm pretty sure that the temperature variation is normal. And CRZ is right, any changes that have occurred has been so statistically insignificant, I'm not sure why we are suppose to panic.

One last thing, I think it is sign of arrogance to think that humans can destory the world. We're not as big, bad, and powerful as some people seem to think.
Gavintzu
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#8 Posted on 2.5.02 1129.41
Reposted on: 2.5.09 1143.24
bigwavedave sez:

    the sustained activity of the worlds volcanos are the single biggest poluter and contributer to global warming on the planet.


Perhaps in terms of raw tonnage of pollutants, sure. But deforestation Click Here makes all the pollutants (both natural and man-made) much more severe. "If the current rate of deforestation continues, the world's rain forests will vanish within 100 years-causing unknown effects on global climate and eliminating the majority of plant and animal species on the planet." (According to NASA scientists)

Forests and soil hold CO2 captive. When the trees are burnt, CO2 is released into the air. When that land is farmed, CO2 is released into the air. Because there are farms and not forests there, next year's volcano eruptions won't be absorbed as they were for the last few thousands of years -- they will be released directly into the atmosphere.

PFunk sez:

    We've still got 20,000 years or something until that happens again according to the cycle. So until your friends in Vancouver BC start telling you its too hot to grow palm trees, I wouldn't panic.

Point #1: We may have 20000 years. But because of our damaging natural cycles, we may only have 10000 years. Or 1000. Or 100. We just don't know what effect deforestation+carbon emissions are going to have in the long haul. It may be minimal as you think. But it may not be.

Point #2: You may not be panicking. But the majority of the world's 6 billion people live near the equator. They will be hard hit if global warming leads to widespread drought and famine. Palm trees in Vancouver is one thing -- spreading desert and dust bowls in India and China is another.

I don't think we can just view problems with the environment in isolation. They can have serious political and economic consequences. It may be that Global Warming is another case of Y2K -- a big fuss about nothing. But there is solid scientific evidence (not proof, but evidence) that this is not the case. Many people, including our leaders, are willing to play chicken with the future. I think this is imprudent at best, stupid and short-sighted at worst.


Jaguar
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#9 Posted on 2.5.02 1137.58
Reposted on: 2.5.09 1149.19
Why not? I mean, sure, the world is a big place. Blasting it into a billion pieces isn't probably very feasible right off the bat, but that's what we've got engineers for. Anyway, I'm less worried about us humans destroying the world rather than just killing all the goddamned humans (not to mention other plants/animals/whathaveyou). We already have plenty of toys that can kill a great deal of humans in just one go-around. So there's something to make a fuss about.

Also, I don't understand the anti-Kyoto stance. Sure, the global warming statistics can't be backed up. Whatever. I don't care. I just want to know why having pollution around is a good thing, and people would go to bat for "More pollution!" This seems silly to me. The only reason that comes to mind is the quest to save that almighty dollar. Cause spending money on cleaning up pollution and making the world a better place for us (humans!) to live in would be BAD.

Ah well, at least the news isn't all bad. Here in North Carolina, Duke Power and Carolina Power and Light both signed an agreement to clean up their contributions to the air pollution problem in NC (one of the worst in the country), eat all the costs, AND freeze prices for the next 5 years, so they can't gouge us. Duke Power and CP&L rock the house!

-Jag
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