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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - WWE Unforgiven 2005
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#1 Posted on 18.9.05 2154.10
Reposted on: 18.9.12 2154.30
On Sunday Night Heat, two TNA commercials and about 600 UFC commercials aired.

Last Pre-PPV Sunday Night Heat match ever:

Rob Conway d. Tajiri in the Heat match (3:46). For a match that went under 4:00 this was quite good. Ended with the spinning neck-breaker.

Ric Flair d. Carlito to win the Intercontinental Title (11:49). Flair came off the ropes successfully and the crowd gave him a standing ovation, thus making this the greatest match of all time. Carlito took a bite of the apple, Flair hit him in the jaw, Carlito choked, and Flair hit the figure four for the win. Flair then cut an interview putting over the IC belt stronger than it's been in 7 years, then took time out of his day to put over Triple H (how sweet), and then grabbed a bunch of women, apparantly to fuck backstage. Fine match.

Edge & Lita talked eevily backstage.

Trish Stratus & Ashley d. Torrie Wilson & Victoria (7:06). It should be noted that Ashley is wearing the same thing she always wears, except her skirt is about 20 times shorter. Torrie threw Ashley out of the ring, and it was damn near the end of poor Ashley's life. They kept Ashley in for too long. For someone in her second ever match she looked good. However, the operative words are "second ever match" as she's still nowhere close to PPV ready. Trish hit a double head-scissors/headlock take-down, then hit Victoria with the chick kick for the win.

Flair popped boner pills and is going to fuck the strippers in a limo.

A commercial aired advertising RAW's move to USA, with Vince, Carlito, Triple H, John Cena, Roddy Piper, Torrie Wilson, and Candace moving out of a house. It was better than you'd think.

Big Show d. my hero and yours, Gene Snitsky (6:08 ) . Imagine a match between Big Show and Gene Snitsky. That was what this was. Big Show "nipped-up" (not Shawn Michaels worthy, but I'll give him an A for effort) and hit the chokeslam for the win. And good Christ, Snitsky's back acne has hit mythical proportions. Show hit Snitsky twice with the ring-bell afterwards.

Steam was coming out of Flair's limo. Seriously, steam. He is GOOD!

Shelton Benjamin d. Kerwin White (8:03). Coach and Ross fought on commentary the whole time. Kerwin tried to hit Shelton with the golf club, but Shelton caught him and his the T-bone suplex for the win. This was actually a very good match, and the crowd went from not caring at all to.... well, slightly caring. Still, that's something, and these guys did a really good job.

Matt Hardy cut an interview. For a man whose been buried as badly as he has, it's amazing that he's still really over.

Matt Hardy d. Edge in a steel cage (21:33). One HELL of a match! Several near-falls towards the end. The briefcase ended up in the ring, but Matt got it and started using it on Edge. Matt went to the top rope, but Edge shoved the ref into the ropes and Matt got knocked on the apron. Edge then hit the spear on Matt. However, Matt made a comeback. Lita got in the ring, Matt caught her and gave her a Twist of Fate, but turned into a spear. Matt, however, kicked out. Every single person in the crowd was on their feet at this point, chanting for Hardy. Matt then went to the top of the cage and hit a legdrop (if Matt still has an ass as of tomorrow morning then he's lucky) for the win. Tremendous match, and it's what this feud needed. Edge, covered in blood, crawled to the back.

Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch d. Hurricane & Rosey to win the World Tag Titles (7:31). Murdoch took time out to hit on Lillian. "Come on baby. Why don't ya' give me a kiss?" I'll give Murdoch this: he plays the character very well. Anyways, Hurricane went to make the save, but Murdoch DDT'd him from the apron to the floor, thus knocking him out. Rosey was double teamed. Hurricane was being helped to the back, but then ran back to the ring to help and tagged himself in. Murdoch & Cade hit their finisher (sort of a Total Elimination but with clotheslines instead of kicks) for the win. For a match that was mainly Rosey working, it was pretty good. Lance Cade has been impressing me the past few weeks.

Shawn Michaels d. Chris Masters (16:45). Masters had Michaels in the Masterlock for a long while and Michaels couldn't break it. Finally, Michaels got himself over the top on the apron, so Masters was forced to break the hold. The crowd responded with a standing ovation! Masters tried to get the Masterlock on again, but Michaels was too quick and hit the superkick for the win. Ya' know, I'm no fan of Chris Masters. But if they were at all serious about pushing the guy, then there was NO point in jobbing him here. Still, a good match.

Ric Flair got out of the limo, pulled his trunks up, finished off a bottle of champaigne, then tried to "Whoo" but he was too drunk. He then did a FLAIR FLOP ON THE CONCRETE! WHOO~!

Kurt Angle d. WWE Champion, John Cena, via DQ (17:16). Angle had Cena in the ankle lock and Cena was about to tap. Bischoff came out to taunt Cena (the ref was down). Cena got to the ropes, Bischoff kicked his hand away, and Angle got the ankle-lock in the center of the ring. Cena reversed and sent Angle into Bischoff, knocking him outside. Cena got a hold of the title belt and hit Angle with it, as the ref revived, and was thus disqualified. Bischoff was about to tell the ref not to award the title back to Cena, but Cena cut him off with an FU. Angle then attacked Cena, and was going to Angle Slam him through the announcer's table. Cena reversed and FU'd Cena through the table. Cena then, despite losing, did the big celebration to send the crowd home happy. A good match with a schmoz ending that was necessary if they're going to do a re-match at Taboo Tuesday.

Overall, the show was a better than I expected, mainly thanks to the excellent Hardy/Edge match. However, aside from that match, nothing blow-away. TNA wins this month.
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#2 Posted on 18.9.05 2156.47
Reposted on: 18.9.12 2157.22
I thought it would be a good show and turned into a very good show. not great but very good. hardy beating Edge was awesome!
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#3 Posted on 18.9.05 2206.57
Reposted on: 18.9.12 2207.24
The whole PPV turned from bad to worthless once Cena got his arm raised after beind DQ'd.

The only really positive thing I can take from this PPV is that Masters worked his ass off and despite the loss looks pretty legit as a upper card heel.
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#4 Posted on 18.9.05 2230.46
Reposted on: 18.9.12 2232.31
I enjoyed this PPV. Pretty solid matches for the most part. Normally I don't like DQ endings for the main event but like was said before, it continues the Cena/Angle feud for Taboo Tuesday.

Other notes; I really could've gone the rest of my life without seeing Flair's asscrack, and the closeup of Snitsky's backne was almost as disturbing of a sight.


(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 18.9.05 2331)
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#5 Posted on 18.9.05 2354.49
Reposted on: 18.9.12 2356.06

    A good match with a schmoz ending that was necessary if they're going to do a re-match at Taboo Tuesday.


I know the next PPV is TT, but the next big event is RAW on USA, and it's probably just as likely we get the match there as we do here. Gotta do something to make sure people remember to flip channels (or they at least ought to - they still haven't mentioned it yet.)

(edited by thecubsfan on 18.9.05 2356)
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#6 Posted on 19.9.05 0139.21
Reposted on: 19.9.12 0139.21
    Originally posted by thecubsfan

      A good match with a schmoz ending that was necessary if they're going to do a re-match at Taboo Tuesday.


    I know the next PPV is TT, but the next big event is RAW on USA, and it's probably just as likely we get the match there as we do here. Gotta do something to make sure people remember to flip channels (or they at least ought to - they still haven't mentioned it yet.)


Also, wouldn't WWE want to promote a "fans vote for the challenger" title match for Taboo Tuesday again? Seems like they'd have the rematch on Raw in October to set that up.

The question then being, would it make more sense to let fans vote for Angle's challenger knowing Cena would be a lead-pipe cinch, or let fans vote for a heel to challenge Cena?
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#7 Posted on 19.9.05 0457.29
Reposted on: 19.9.12 0458.13
    Originally posted by Jim Smith
      Originally posted by thecubsfan

        A good match with a schmoz ending that was necessary if they're going to do a re-match at Taboo Tuesday.


      I know the next PPV is TT, but the next big event is RAW on USA, and it's probably just as likely we get the match there as we do here. Gotta do something to make sure people remember to flip channels (or they at least ought to - they still haven't mentioned it yet.)


    Also, wouldn't WWE want to promote a "fans vote for the challenger" title match for Taboo Tuesday again? Seems like they'd have the rematch on Raw in October to set that up.

    The question then being, would it make more sense to let fans vote for Angle's challenger knowing Cena would be a lead-pipe cinch, or let fans vote for a heel to challenge Cena?


I'd love to see the fans have to vote in a heel, just for the fact that HHH should be there by then and I'd like to see if the fans want to see more HHH title madness.
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#8 Posted on 19.9.05 0740.41
Reposted on: 19.9.12 0742.30
One comment about the Hardy/Edge match.

Watching steel cage matches as a kid, I always remember them having to climb out the top. It seemed to me to be what made the match unique; you had to escape, and it added some drama.

I remember when they added the part where you could pin the guy to win. But have you always been able to open the door and walk out? It seems so anti-climactic. Why would you ever try to climb the cage, as opposed to just walking out? I could swear they used to chain that door shut... am I wrong, or when was this added? It's really dumb, regardless.
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#9 Posted on 19.9.05 0825.23
Reposted on: 19.9.12 0825.46

Flair as IC Champ? ... Hmmm ... I hope this is just a short reign and the belt is moved to someone like Masters or Conway ...
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#10 Posted on 19.9.05 0844.29
Reposted on: 19.9.12 0844.31
    Originally posted by sentonBOMB
    One comment about the Hardy/Edge match.

    Watching steel cage matches as a kid, I always remember them having to climb out the top. It seemed to me to be what made the match unique; you had to escape, and it added some drama.

    I remember when they added the part where you could pin the guy to win. But have you always been able to open the door and walk out? It seems so anti-climactic. Why would you ever try to climb the cage, as opposed to just walking out? I could swear they used to chain that door shut... am I wrong, or when was this added? It's really dumb, regardless.





In WWF cage matches, it was always escape rules, whereby the first man whose feet touched the floor won, whether that was via climbing over the cage or going out the door. Examples of going out the door are Bruno in 1980 at Shea Stadium, and Muraco being thrown out the door by Snuka in their match in '83 at MSG.
The NWA had the traditional match surrounded by cage where victory could only be achieved via pinfall or submission. See Flair/Rhodes '86, Flair/Garvin '87, Flair/Race '83.
A few years ago, the WWF/E decided to make pinfalls/submissions possible in some cage matches, while in other cage matches it was still escape rules only, depending on what type of mood whoever is booking is in on a particular day.
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#11 Posted on 19.9.05 1044.51
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1046.58
    Originally posted by evophile
    I'd love to see the fans have to vote in a heel, just for the fact that HHH should be there by then and I'd like to see if the fans want to see more HHH title madness.


I doubt that they'd throw away the first Cena-HHH with zero buildup. My assumption is that there will be a vote on the stipulation for a Cena-Angle rematch.
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#12 Posted on 19.9.05 1100.02
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1100.43
I was there, and the crowd was...strange. pretty good attendance with only a section being black off. The crowd was really into it, probably because us here in good ole oklahoma arent as jaded by a major ppv event, well because this was our first obviously. The crowd was at it's peak for hardy/edge, but a huge pop for cena, not the best show by any means, but the atmosphere made it a great show.
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#13 Posted on 19.9.05 1126.08
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1129.03
WWE either has a short-term memory span or are very uncreative. How many times in the past couple of years have they done the DQ to setup the next title match? They just did it with Batista and JBL. It *REALLY* makes the brand only PPV's come across as more unimportant than they already are.

I'm thinking that they'll have Vince neuter Bischoff at the Oct. 3 RAW and setup Angle/Cena for Taboo Tuesday where the fans pick the stipulation.
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#14 Posted on 19.9.05 1148.13
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1151.21

    WWE either has a short-term memory span or are very uncreative.

C - "All of the above".
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#15 Posted on 19.9.05 1351.27
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1351.27
Angle and Austin at SummerSlam 2001 and then Taker and Brock at Unforgiven 2002 were the first ones, because they were really jarring and the crowd hated it bad since they were used to getting finishes in PPV main events. One of the strengths of WWF PPVs, aside from the usual top notch quality of the main events, was that for your $30 you would get a winner and a loser that night, and that goes a long way towards customer satisfaction and goodwill.

Then they did it the next year with Hunter and Nash at Judgment Day 2003. Then with Eddie and JBL at Judgment Day 2004. Then with Taker and JBL at SummerSlam. Then with Batista and JBL at Great American Bash. Then tonight.

I can understand there are certain booking corners you can get backed into where you simply can't beat either guy on that night. But none of these times were that, and none of the non-finishes led to any significant increase in the return buyrate* for the big rematch to settle it the next month. All they do is take the current show down and make the people who bought it feel ripped off.

* Vengeance 2003, headlined by Kevin Nash vs. Triple H, did a strong buyrate, but that has to be credited to Mick Foley's return to the company after a nearly two year absence. Without him, as cold as Nash was as a challenger, it probably would've tanked. The buyrate for Batista and JBL's second match was obviously really, really strong, but they didn't have anything to do with that, so 'preserving' JBL as challenger at the Bash didn't even need to happen.

The most successful off-show in two years, this year's Vengeance, was headlined by a rematch of a rematch, Batista/HHH, and that came after Batista had already pinned Hunter twice. So instead of shooting themselves in the foot with their own PPVs, maybe they should build up more than one viable title challenger per quarter of a year.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 19.9.05 1459)
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#16 Posted on 19.9.05 1353.55
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1354.14
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Angle and Austin at SummerSlam 2001 and then Taker and Brock at Unforgiven 2002 was the first ones, because they were really jarring and the crowd hated it bad because they were used to getting finishes in PPV main events.


The Rock/Benoit instances really cheesed me off. My aged, faulty memory says that they did eerily similar Dusty finishes for 2 PPVs in a row between them.
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#17 Posted on 19.9.05 1416.03
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1418.21
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    One of the strengths of WWF PPVs, aside from the usual top notch quality of the main events, was that for your $30 you would get a winner and a loser that night, and that goes a long way towards customer satisfaction and goodwill.

    ...

    I can understand there are certain booking corners you can get backed into where you simply can't beat either guy on that night. But none of these times were that, and none of the non-finishes led to any significant increase in the return buyrate* for the big rematch to settle it the next month.


The counterexample, I think, is HBK-Taker from 97, but a) that was a really hot program to begin with and b) it may be too far out of the data range to count with your analysis.
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#18 Posted on 19.9.05 1443.13
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1445.49
HBK/Taker worked because they had a wild brawl at Ground Zero that was not only a great match but totally got over that a regular match could not contain them. Then the rematch was the first ever Hell In A Cell Match and also a #1 Contender's Match to see who would face Bret at Survivor Series.

These recent examples of DQ finishes come off way weaker. Angle/Cena was even worse then the past few because it was just your tired formula WWE finish with the ref bumps, belt shot, and Bischoff. It's just plain uncreative. Why not have Cena win on a roll-up or a fluke pin then have Angle snap on Cena after the match? The fans get a winner and it also extends the feud.

The saddest part is that they'll probably do the exact same thing with Batista/Guerrero because I don't see them giving the belt to Guerrero and they'll probably want to do a rematch at Survivor Series.
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#19 Posted on 19.9.05 1736.30
Reposted on: 19.9.12 1740.05
    Originally posted by evophile
      Originally posted by Jim Smith
      The question then being, would it make more sense to let fans vote for Angle's challenger knowing Cena would be a lead-pipe cinch, or let fans vote for a heel to challenge Cena?


    I'd love to see the fans have to vote in a heel, just for the fact that HHH should be there by then and I'd like to see if the fans want to see more HHH title madness.


See, I'm not sure most fans would want to vote for any heel. If WWE let fans choose whether, say, HHH, Angle, or Carlito deserves a shot, I think there'd be a lower turnout than last year, where fans were just trying to pick the guy they thought could kick HHH's ass. The casual fan doesn't want Cena to get his ass kicked by anybody, and wouldn't see the point in picking who gets to hopefully not kick Cena's ass.

Alternately, WWE could present a mix of face and heel challengers, but then they can rest assured that a face is sure to win, a la Shelton getting the IC shot in a face-vs.-face match with Jericho last year. I'd enjoy that, but it doesn't sound like what WWE would want to do--they'd probably prefer to build the PPV around Cena facing the insurmountable threat of an opponent who could be a big red monster, a cerebral assassin, a blue-eyed demon, or...uh...some nutsack who thinks he's cool.

    Originally posted by hansen9j
    My assumption is that there will be a vote on the stipulation for a Cena-Angle rematch.


That might be what they do, but the angle would have to be that one of the choices favors Cena and one favors Kurt. And again, it's hard to imagine that there'd be any intrigue as to whether fans would vote for a Chain Gang chain match over a Your Olympic Hero submission match, for example.

    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    The Rock/Benoit instances really cheesed me off. My aged, faulty memory says that they did eerily similar Dusty finishes for 2 PPVs in a row between them.


The first Dusty Finish was Rock/Benoit at Fully Loaded in July 2000; the second was Rock/Benoit/Kane/Taker at Unforgiven in September. The second time, I think Rock had his foot on the ropes when Benoit pinned him about five minutes in, and it was more obvious where they were going. The part where Benoit realizes he hasn't won yet and the camera cuts to the other three guys looking like "Get your ass back here, boy," was priceless.

(edited by Jim Smith on 19.9.05 1737)
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#20 Posted on 20.9.05 0355.10
Reposted on: 20.9.12 0355.32

Originally posted by omega
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Matt then went to the top of the cage and hit a legdrop (if Matt still has an ass as of tomorrow morning then he's lucky) for the win.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I couldn't help but think that if Matt was off by just a couple of inches then Edge doesn't have a face tomorrow morning. I mean, if there is any true animosity between these two then Edge put a lot of faith in Matt to do that move.
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