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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - RAW 9/5/05
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JST
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#21 Posted on 5.9.05 2335.04
Reposted on: 5.9.12 2336.32
I'm wondering myself why didn't Masters get DQ'ed for the chairshot.
Mr. Boffo
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#22 Posted on 5.9.05 2341.52
Reposted on: 5.9.12 2342.07
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Apparently I'm the only guy in this thread wondering why Michaels didn't get DQ'd for his trick knee acting up in full view of the referee.

Well, WWE.COM Fantasy scores the Master Lock challenge as a "Specialty Match". Specialty matches are those that have different rules from a normal (1 on 1 or tag) match. And the rules for the Master Lock Challenge have never really been spelled out. All they've ever said is that in order for someone to win, they have to escape the hold.
So I see 3 possible outcomes:
1. Masters broke the hold at the end. HBK wins. (I am discounting the time that Stephanie mentioned, because that was probably an accident, and thus will be never be replayed again).
2. Michaels used an illegal maneuver. Masters wins by DQ.
3. If the nut shot is legal, then the chairshot is legal too. Playing Devil's Advocate, one could argue that Masters broke the hold voluntarily, which doesn't fit the match specifications (which say you must escape the hold). Therefore, everything in the match was OK, and Masters wins by submission. That would be the most contrived answer, so hopefully they don't go with that.

(edited by Mr. Boffo on 5.9.05 2342)
Asian Business Man
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#23 Posted on 5.9.05 2343.11
Reposted on: 5.9.12 2344.42
(deleted by CRZ on 5.9.05 2344)
Peter The Hegemon
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#24 Posted on 5.9.05 2348.31
Reposted on: 5.9.12 2350.48
Everyone missed the big story here:

EDGE SAID SHNITSKY!!!

In light of the other Bulldog-isms he's used on the air, I think we can now say with complete safety that Edge is the biggest Inside The Ropes fan ever.

EVER!!!

Other than that, is it really too much to ask that the new tag team in town get SOMETHING to do as buildup before they beat the tag champs? Or, indeed, that the tag champs not be made to look like massive jobbers before the new team gets to beat them?


(Edit: I really don't know what combination of accidental keystrokes caused the thing to post before I was done.)

(edited by Peter The Hegemon on 6.9.05 0051)
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#25 Posted on 5.9.05 2349.52
Reposted on: 5.9.12 2354.35
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    3. If the nut shot is legal, then the chairshot is legal too. Playing Devil's Advocate, one could argue that Masters broke the hold voluntarily, which doesn't fit the match specifications (which say you must escape the hold). Therefore, everything in the match was OK, and Masters wins by submission. That would be the most contrived answer, so hopefully they don't go with that.



Just checked out the WWE's Official RAW results, and guess which answer they're going with
http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/results/


Tribal Prophet
hansen9j
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#26 Posted on 5.9.05 2351.32
Reposted on: 5.9.12 2355.20
I'm almost positive Unforgiven ends with Masters putting on the Lock, and Michaels scales the ropes and flips over him into a pin (a la Bret-Austin). 1-2-3, but Michaels is passed out. I'm also almost positive that that is the best scenario.
Eddie Famous
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#27 Posted on 6.9.05 0002.32
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0003.02
Murdock was just fine, and if anyone had ever seen Dick Murdoch in crazy Texan mode you could see the tribute there and why "dragging him to the gym" would be just stupid.

Besides, he had little choice but to flop around while Helms was blowing moves.

Masters is just fine for what he is. Some posters need to figure out that this is exactly how you try to get a muscle guy over as a monster heel. Flair and Michaels know that.

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#28 Posted on 6.9.05 0008.13
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0009.36
Kurt Angle and Ric Flair's bat-shit crazy old man gimmick are the only reasons to watch Raw anymore.

Angle vs Eugene was .......well it was better than Angle vs Billy Gunn or Angle vs Giant Gonzalez. I was waiting for a nostalgic run in by some overweight has been tho.

John Cena has become so boring to me. I miss when he was a joke with Bull Buchanon, him trying to make living in Massachusetts is a "hard life" is just asinine

Matt Morgan hits the ring and pwns!!! Cena.... oh wait thats Tomko, they are all big and sucky so I get them confused

Heart Throbs vs Val Venis and Mable was actually decent compared to some of the other garbage on this show. I feel bad for Val because he is decent in the ring but is stuck doing this porn star shit that hit its peak with kaientai chopping his dick off

Linda McMahon gives a "shoot" on the HURRICANE!!!! everyone must pay Vince 5 dollars every minute because he owns the rights to the word Hurricane

carlito's cabana sucks as carlito does nothing for me and ashley is a fucking black hole in the ring. I hate this tomboy shit, "well her tits are hanging out of her shirt and shes got a skirt so short on I can see cameltoe but she wears a hat so shes a tomboy." Flair saves the show by acting like my grandma when shes off her meds and elbowdrops the apples WHOOOOOOOOOO!


is it just me or does Trevor Murdoch look a lot like a fat scotsman? well he was really sucking at the end of that match almost falling on his ass about 6 times in a row.

Matt Hardy gets jobbed again and I don't care because it involves Snitsky

Cena wrestles Tomko in a boring match. I hate how Cena uses gimmick bullshit moves that are supposed to be sold like devastating maneuvers..... doesn't he get that 5 knuckle shuffle means jerking off? Kurt Angle lays him out because hes an olympic hero and has a big dick.

Masters gives a shitty interview saying nothing but "body, masterlock, and broken" in different arrangements and shawn nuts him to break the lock.... I didn't see that coming 100 miles away.


this show sucks

(edited by Asian Business Man on 5.9.05 2210)
Deputy Marshall
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#29 Posted on 6.9.05 0025.18
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0025.35
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Apparently I'm the only guy in this thread wondering why Michaels didn't get DQ'd for his trick knee acting up in full view of the referee. I know, I know, faces are always allowed to get away with blatant cheating.


I think Jim Ross mentioned that in the Masterlock challenge, "anything goes" in terms of trying to break the hold. I could've misheard that, though.

Not an awful RAW, but not too good either. I'm surprised everyone seems so down on Tomko. The guy, to me, comes across as one of those people that seems to be putting his all in the ring. Sure, his offense isn't much, but for a guy his size he bumps and sells VERY well. In fact, go back and watch the match with Cena again, and you'll notice that he was much better at it than Cena. I should say that in all fairness, it's certainly possible that Cena was having an off night, because that exchange between him and Angle after the latter's match with Eugene looked pretty bad as well.

By the way, I'm not vehemently anti-Cena or anything(in fact I really don't mind the guy all that much), nor am I saying they should push Tomko to the main event. I'm just saying that he goes out and does the job he's supposed to do, and seems to be putting a lot of effort into it.
Jackson
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#30 Posted on 6.9.05 0038.49
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0039.51
Gotta love Good Ol' non-selling J.R.

Coach brings up TCU beating Oklahoma-
J.R.: Look! A body slam! This one might be over!

Coach jokes on his cowboy hat-
J.R.: Look at this! A Samoan Drop!

Kinda makes you wonder what hell is the point of a three man announce team and if J.R. approves of the idea.

I don't know if Trevor Murdoch is supposed to be Dick's son or his clone but the point is that Dick himself wouldn't get over today with that look and gimmick so this is a waste of time. If I have to see someone wrestle with chew in his mouth then somebody give Stan Hansen a call please.

On the positive side we are finally going to see where they are going with the Kerwin White deal. Also Flair doing the nut clutch strut was classic. "Hey where you goin? I'll tell you where you're going. You're going to school!"

Edit: Also wanted to add a big thumbs down to the show for teasing that Matt and Edge would not be on the show this week then not delivering on that good news.



(edited by Jackson on 6.9.05 1807)
Hogan's My Dad
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#31 Posted on 6.9.05 0135.35
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0136.28
Murdoch was awful. None of that was Hurricane's fault. Hurricane tried three times to do an irish whip and Murdoch was too fat and out of breath to manage it. I am in full support of having a guy out there who has a different look, but even fat Dusty Rhodes, cancerous-discolored-under-breast-lump and all, could keep up.

Pretty meh show, but not so much that I skipped too many segments. Did anyone notice Val actually acting like the win was a big deal? Was that good pyschology or was Val just thrilled that he was booked to win his first match since '98?

Can you get and diagnose a concussion in forty minutes? Doesn't the brain need time to swell?

Part of Cena's problem is that they aren't letting him do what got him over in the first place. If when Austin started gaining steam in '97, they took away the middle fingers and the cursing and tried to fashion him after the last big draw they had previously, he'd have flopped. They're killing Cena because they still doing Austin/McMahon remix #79.

I love Angle, of course, but there's something missing from this feud. He's just vicious for the sake of being vicious, but they aren't doing a great job of establishing why he's so angry. They have hinted at, but not really explored the legitimacy issue, but they need to play up the differences these guys are having and not just do the revolving opponent whose M.O. is "I hate Cena just because".

Flair made me laugh with that bite out of your ass comment, which was almost as good as the making virgins bleed comment of a year or so ago. Still, Carlito is nowhere near at the level where he can carry Naitch, and hard as it may be to believe, that's what Flair needs at this point. I see this Unforgiven match working out like Flair/Jericho from Summerslam '02, which is to say a lot of chops. Too many. However, if they do a cheap title switch, it may serve Carlito well once if he quickly and decisively gains it back. And it would make Flair a triple crown winner, so I would have to mark for it even if the company wouldn't notice or mention it on TV.

Shelton V.S. Kerwin could be a good match. The storyline is bound to suck and will probably be offensive.

Oooh, Mick. Speckles of grey in the goatee is NOT becoming. Reminds me too much of Nash. Get some Just For Men. No one can tell, y'know.

The whole Shawn/Masters mess smacks of Shawn politicking. He wanted to break it, in some sense, but the announcers ignored it as if what was originally booked is what happened. Kinda Hogan/Sting Starrcade-ish, only not nearly as bad. If the loophole they're going with is Masters let go, that won't save the guy any face. The crowd saw it broken and popped. They can say and do whatever they want, but much like Muhammad Hassan being "undefeated", and then "unpinned", and then "unpinned on RAW", and then "unpinned by a person from the midwest born in the year of the pig during the exact moment of the lunar equinox", the basis of the thing is spoiled now and there ain't no going back.
Big Bad
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#32 Posted on 6.9.05 0213.29
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0213.48
Didn't you guys see that Ashley's sunset flip was simply Raw's way of sticking it to TNA? That was clearly intended to show how the Canadian Destroyer is a ridiculous move!.....right?

Cade and Murdoch are going to need to look a lot more dastardly to get over as the outlaw heels. Cade has a great look as the pretty boy punk, but Murdoch looks like he's about 15 years old.

Why does Raw have so many damn heels?! Aside from Flair, every single face tonight ended their segment at the mercy of the heel. Would it have killed WWE to make someone like Tomko into another undercard face?
marclaflamme
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#33 Posted on 6.9.05 0249.45
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0249.52
Michaels didn't break the Master Lock.

Masters lost the grip but Shawn didn't escape from the move. The full nelson was still applied.

That's the way I see it.
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#34 Posted on 6.9.05 0251.40
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0252.15
Ashley is horrible. I agree that her look is just fucked up. SHe looks like an Avril Levigne rip-off who's hotter and a tiny bit less annoying. Christy's light-years beyond this chick. Show her tits in Playboy and get it over with so we can get her off TV.

It seems surreal seeing the TNA commercials during RAW. Wonder what Vince thinks about that?

I may have just misheard it, but did anyone else hear Lilian announce John Cena as "Shawn Nina"? Freaked me out, but since nobody else has mentioned it I may have just imagined it ...

Murdoch sucks. I can stand Cade, but god this guy's awful.

I was pissed that Shawn made Masters release the hold and Masters somehow still magically won. So if you kick him in the nads and he's forced to release it from the pain and anger, that doesn't count because he "voluntarily" broke the hold? In that case how in the hell could anybody win this stupid match?

I liked Flair busting out the phantom knee/elbow drops. That damned ring STILL won't sell for him. Keep working on it, Flair, you'll break it yet!

Very disappointing RAW, overall. I can't wait until TNA replaces it. Though if it's the same Impact they had on FSN, it'll be little more than jobber matches ...
Wpob
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#35 Posted on 6.9.05 0658.56
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0659.01
The Masterlock Challenge as the Main Event last night? And to boot, Masters wins? No pay off of Shawn breaking the hold? Well, that's it, I'm done with the WWE for a while. I just can't take it anymore. I can't take the horrible bookings, the sloppy matches the underserved pushes and poor announcing. I know there were times worse than this, but this is bad initself.

As for Masters, at this point, I am numb to him. I know he is going to get pushed and I know it is not his fault. Which one of us would turn this push down if given the chance? He is being asked by the WWE to be better than he is ON THE RUN. With some seasoning and a slower push, I do think he could be a serviceable heel and a mid level title holder. But the WWE is going to quickly ruin his career. Snitsky Part II.

As for the masterlock, I hate HBK, and I felt bad for him last night. A nut shot stops Carlito dead in his pasth but a nut shot to Masters doesn;t lead to a released hold? They should have had Shawn nut shot him and have Masters collapse. Then next week, Master come out and say Michaels could only break the hold illegally. Makes more sense. But then sense is something the WWE does not have.

I look forward to reading the recaps here (GO DEAN GO!) but will have to take a long break from actually viewing the WWE. Thank God for MNF!

mikebuk
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#36 Posted on 6.9.05 0659.43
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0701.03
Sky's feed partly failed again. Not for the first time, no sound at the beginning, it started just before The Heart Throbs / Viscera & Venis match.

Masters definitely let go. He quickly re-applied the lock as he was backed into the ropes.

I was surprised they didn't cut into The Hurricane's theme after the 'Stand back there's a hurricane coming through' opening after recent events.

There will always be at least one person who'd make the a comment that it was inappropriate. Not me especially.

Just call Cade / Murdoch, the New Smokin' Gunns. Put one of them in a match with Tatanka, let's really get old with the cowboy gimmick !

I like Ashley. I put her in the category with Lita and Victoria as not needing to wear the minimum to look sexy.
Tomboy over Barbie any day.

Hope Snitsky keeps the braided beard. Maybe he and Tomko may form the ZZ Top tribute stable, along with a managerial role for Jim Neidhart.
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#37 Posted on 6.9.05 0817.29
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0818.08
When Torrie Wilson is asked to carry a match, you know it is going to be Jackie Gayda bad.
My God, the Apocolypse is upon us. The dead have come back and are communicating through the talking box. Run for the hills. Repent. Oh wait, that's just Vince's wife. Easy enough mistake.
Murdoch needs to use the brainbuster.
Funny how Viacom was upset with hinting at terrorism with Hassan around the London bombings but apparently no problem with The Hurricane appearing this week.
Does it make sense to have Hardy/Edge in a cage a week after they give away a cage match for free on SD? If ever there was a reason for a scaffold match, this would be it. Elements of what happens if someone decides to shoot with no one to stop them on top of the scaffold would add a new dimension of entertainment.
World of Jim Ross: Fans online are evil if they crap on a gimmick. He though can ignore Chavo's gimmick because he's Jim Ross.
CRZ
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#38 Posted on 6.9.05 0825.42
Reposted on: 6.9.12 0825.54
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Funny how Viacom was upset with hinting at terrorism with Hassan around the London bombings but apparently no problem with The Hurricane appearing this week.
Guess they didn't get as many letters from offended nutjobs who needed to be placated this time around. (You sent yours, though, right?)
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    My God, the Apocolypse is upon us. The dead have come back and are communicating through the talking box. Run for the hills. Repent. Oh wait, that's just Vince's wife. Easy enough mistake.
Linda is a handsome woman. Erase the hate
Kevintripod
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#39 Posted on 6.9.05 1013.07
Reposted on: 6.9.12 1013.15
    Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
    And Linda McMahon looks more like a robot each and every time I see her. I cant imagine her during sex with Vince. She has less emotion than Benoit.


During her segment about raising money for the hurricane victims, was Linda McMahon supposed to be giggling and smiling while cutting some sort of screaming wrestling promo ? The subject of the moment required the exact tone that she displayed.

And for people who complain that she can't act and acts "stiff", "emotionless" and "robotic" on RAW and Smackdown, you have to remember that her character on the show (and in real life) is being the very strict WWE CEO. It's Vince's job on the show to be the wild crazy loose cannon boss of the company. Linda's job/character is to silently observe everything that goes on around her and then only appear so that she can deal out punishment or clean up messes when situations begin to spiral out of control. Her character on the show is supposed to be exactly as she comes off on tv (and probably in real life)......a cold and emotionless hard-nosed CEO.

Now, about RAW.

I once again liked the Cabana, but what is up with Flair and always having a soaking wet shirt ? When he pulled off his jacket and his whole shirt was already soaked, I was shocked and kinda grossed out. It was so bad that it was actually a distraction while I watched the match. Does he make a habit of stepping out of the shower 3 minutes before he is supposed to go to the ring ? If that is all sweat, then he should look into getting botox shots into his armpits before every RAW. (Hollywood actresses are known to do that before award shows because it somehow prevents them from sweating underneath their armpits and prevents armpit sweat stains on their dresses)

The Torrie/Ashley match had my interest because:

#1. I could be witnessing another famous Gayda/Stratus type of disaster match.
#2. Possible good chance of catching boob slippage.
#3. I like Ashley.......there, I said it.

Note to Ashley: Don't hold your mic up to your face when you are not talking. The microphone catching your giggling after everyone of Carlito's comments was a little annoying.

The rest of RAW sucked. I can't remember the last time I saw a RAW that was this bad.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Oh it's on like Donkey Kong !!!" - Stifler, American Wedding
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#40 Posted on 6.9.05 1015.26
Reposted on: 6.9.12 1020.28
You know, for all of you who want to play the "sick of Raw" card because you're chugging the Hatorade for Masters and have turned on the Christian-less Tomko... I'd just like to point out we had London VS Kendrick on the last Velocity. And Velocity had MISTER Kennedy* first.

Also, props to Cade for improving big time on the mic and in the ring.





















*.... Ken-NEDY
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