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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - RAW (from Hell) 8/29/05 Register and log in to post!
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CRZ
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#21 Posted on 30.8.05 0006.06
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0007.01
Sorry, you're over your quota.
Tribal Prophet
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#22 Posted on 30.8.05 0053.54
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0054.20
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    So tell me why, exactly, Masters is now in a program with Michaels?


Three months ago I never thought I'd say any of this, but I'm going to stick up for Masters for a bit here.

Of course the guy is a rookie, but hiring guys straight out of high school is the way the WWE is going now, so that's going to be the case with just about anyone that they give us.

Compare Masters to other new guys from like Heidenreich, Rene Dupree, Rob "The Conman" Conroy, back to Nathan Jones, and other "big guys" that they bring in. The guy has a better look than a lot of guys on the roster, and actually carries himself around the ring very well. A few months ago he was nervous being in the ring with F'n Steven Richards, and now he's holding his own in interviews with Shawn Michaels.

They've kept him in Masterlock Challenges to give him experience while keeping his matches short and squashlike. With this, he HAS gotten better and seems a LOT more comfortable in the ring. I know the guy beat both Shelton and Tajiri, and so he'll never make up for that to some, but he is getting better and has the best potential out of all of the 'new guys' they've tried. Why is he in a program with Michaels? Because Michaels is the perfect guy for him to be in a feud with. Masters needs to learn how to wrestle and how to work a crowd, and generally learn how to be a cocky heel. Who better to learn from than Shawn? Maybe the guy is just a "generic brawler" right now, but if he learns even one move every couple months he'll be as good as a lot of guys they have this time next year. He's a power wrestler anyways. His gimmick says that a clothesline from him is a devastating move, which is smart because you don't have him trying random shit like Heidenreich was.

Since he is still getting better over time, I'm willing to wait to see how good (or not) he gets before I call him a failure.

ps. I can't believe I typed that much defending Chris Masters. I will never forgive you for this.


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#23 Posted on 30.8.05 0100.55
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0101.35
Highlights of the show:

#1. Edge/Hardy streetfight (But the pyro electrocution effect was a little hokey)

#2. Hardy/Lita backstage confrontation (WOW....Matt at first seemed really torn between either hitting Lita in the face or throwing her on her back. Lita played the slutty heel bitch so convincingly that it was almost uncomfortable to watch as she was throwing Edge in Matt's face....and it had to have been uncomfortable for Matt also.)

#3. Cena/Angle confrontation (Cena had me laughing with that dig on Angle about him "liking to jump guys from behind".)

Honorable mention: Ashley/Victoria (I really like Ashley for some reason, and I always enjoy watching Victoria use her devastating "Widow's Peak" finisher.)

(edited by Kevintripod on 29.8.05 2330)
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#24 Posted on 30.8.05 0121.06
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0121.10
Hardy/Edge - Probably what was supposed to happen at Summerslam (I think Matt's injury was legit after seeing the wound on his forehead the next night). I enjoyed all of the match except the electricity part. Looked too, I dunno, for lack of a better term staged. I would've preferred a drop like that without the electrical outlets adding the glamor. The stiffness was great though.

After the shocking incident, maybe one of them will pick up an uncontrollable stutter leading to a Goldust wants his last gimmick back match.

WTF, Nooooooooooooo! Flair, C'mon man, Flair just don't quit like that! That was, well....just not right. WTF

Hey, no "The Con-way"....Sweet. I miss Shelton though, why don't they move the Diva segments to Heat and bring Shelton back to Raw consistently?

(edited by The Guinness.Lanny Poffo? on 29.8.05 2323)
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#25 Posted on 30.8.05 0249.46
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0250.00
Say what you will about his limited move set, but Masters is slowly improving each and every week. He has the "look" that gets him on TV, and he is actaully pretty athletic for a musclehead. Putting him in a program with HBK can only help him. Let them wrestle two-three times a week on the house shows and he will only be better for it.

Hardy/Edge was okay, but a ten minute recap/going to the ambulance segment? And, since when did JR get approval to call it a HOSPITAL and not a medical facility?

Overall, okay show, I am just anticipating the Angle title reign of terror. Cant wait for that to come through.
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#26 Posted on 30.8.05 0426.10
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0426.35
    Originally posted by Super Shane Spear
    If the Masterlock is "just" a full nelson, doesn't that make the Liontamer/Walls of Jericho "just" a boston crab?

Er, well -- by this point, isn't it?
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#27 Posted on 30.8.05 0518.33
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0518.55
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    Why is he in a program with Michaels? Because Michaels is the perfect guy for him to be in a feud with. Masters needs to learn how to wrestle and how to work a crowd, and generally learn how to be a cocky heel. Who better to learn from than Shawn?


Wouldn't OVW be more suited to *developing talent* than having to just push him so much on national TV? Is it really that important to push him down our throats right away? Is the world going to end if they don't? While Masters is 'learning the ropes', so to speak, by winning the main event on the biggest wrestling program in the world, the ones with more talent, the ones with actual titles, the ones with even the littlest bit of heat during their entrances, are sitting about as an afterthought on the program. And of course, let's not forget all the other talents just twiddling their thumbs on the indy circuit. So what does that say about the wrestling industry as a whole?

As for Flair jobbing, I don't think people care so much as to Flair losing (he loses to EVERYONE these days) as it was done in just such a simple fashion, even with the 'crimson mask'.
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#28 Posted on 30.8.05 0539.40
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0540.00
I thought we were going to see Evolution Part II
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#29 Posted on 30.8.05 0551.24
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0551.24
Just what the WWE needs, more heel stables beating up those wussy babyfaces. That'll make people care more.

Anyways, on a little side note, perhaps we should call the 7th quarter hour the "Generic Heel Heat Challenge" segment, being a heel squash over whomever every week. We saw "Who can resist the big boot" challenge last night with Tomko beating that tag champ guy. Heck, last week on Smackdown we had the "Who can kick out of the fancy move Paul London can't use" challenge with Mr. Kennedy.
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#30 Posted on 30.8.05 0618.15
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0618.27
    Originally posted by geemoney
    So is Tomko's new gimmick going to be that he knocks people out? Because if not, I don't really see the point of that match.


The POINT is that Dupree's looking for a new partner to take on the champs, and, with Tomko's decisive victory, Dupree will now decide to get Tomko to team up with him.

Hey, they're trying to do something more than just throwing two random guys together and saying, "hey, look! a tag team!" Well, okay -- they are doing exactly that, but at least they're setting it up beforehand.

--K

P.S. I am a Tomko fan.

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#31 Posted on 30.8.05 0635.17
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0635.20
I'm a Tomko fan, as well. He's showing more charisma, and I like that.

Hardy/Edge was sick. I hope nobody was seriously injured during that. I couldn't even watch after the stage bump.

I really like Michaels' work recently, too. As long as we see vintage 90s/DX-era HBK...I'm happy.
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#32 Posted on 30.8.05 0756.08
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0756.10
    Originally posted by Amazing Telephone
      Originally posted by Super Shane Spear
      If the Masterlock is "just" a full nelson, doesn't that make the Liontamer/Walls of Jericho "just" a boston crab?

    Er, well -- by this point, isn't it?

I think even calling it a Boston Crab would be an insult to the move thesedays.

That Walls of Jericho he had on Cena last week was the god damn weakest attempt at a submission I've ever seen. Jericho was literally just sitting down and holding Cena's legs at a 90 degree angle.

As for Raw. I usually judge things on what I would skip if I was watching it on tape. In that respect I enjoyed Hardy/Edge and found pretty much everything else to be dull dull dull.
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#33 Posted on 30.8.05 0825.13
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0825.14
    Originally posted by Shem the Penman
    br>Has anyone -- other than Goldberg -- ever gotten over with the "master of one killer move" gimmick they're trying on Tomko? Well, maybe Regal with the Power of the Punch, but that was more for the entertainment value of Regal finding new ways to sneak the knucks in every week.


Kick - WHAM! Stunner!

He Hulks up, the irish whip, the big boot, leg drop!

It's the most electrifying move in sports entertainment!

Diamond Cutter!

Aaaaargh! It's the choke slam!


Spaceman Spiff
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#34 Posted on 30.8.05 0826.58
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0827.19
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    Compare Masters to other new guys from like Heidenreich, Rene Dupree, Rob "The Conman" Conroy, back to Nathan Jones, and other "big guys" that they bring in.

Hey, don't lump Conway in w/ stiffs like Dupree, Heidenreich, & Jones. Conway is light years better than those guys (as well as Masters).

    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
    The POINT is that Dupree's looking for a new partner to take on the champs, and, with Tomko's decisive victory, Dupree will now decide to get Tomko to team up with him.

When Dupree is going to have to carry the team, you know the team is going to be horrible.

    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    To Spaceman Spiff: Carlito has shown that he's got very good mic skills with good charisma, in addition to being at least a pretty good wrestler. Masters doesn't have either, and in fact up until he started this thing with HBK, his entrance music was met with complete and utter apathy from the crowd. I absolutely rate Carlito significantly higher than Masters.

I'd put Carlito & Masters on even ground in regards to mic skills. "Pretty good wrestler" I'd take offense to. Where are these good matches he's been in? For every decent match against Shelton, I'd point to decent matches Masters had w/ Val Venis and Tajiri.

    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    And in addition to Masters having no talent, they sure seem eager to push him to the moon in a big fuckin' hurry.

They did the same w/ Carlito. Had him beat Cena for the US Title on SD in his 1st match (I believe), kept him on TV when he was hurt, gave him the IC Title almost immediately after he came to Raw, and had him in the ME against Cena for the last month on Raw. At least they had Masters start out on the bottom against jobbers. Carlito has been way more pushed than Masters, solely on the back of his mic skills (which are merely OK). And if you want to mention Masters getting no heat, Carlito hasn't exactly been drawing much heat himself.

Oh, and 1 more thing: they really should have swapped the Edge/Hardy match w/ the Carlito/Masters/HBK match. End the show w/ the guys on the floor, being attended to by the medics, w/ Lita bawling her eyes out. As it was, you have the announcers doing their "this is real, REAL! These guys are hurt FOR REAL!" voices, then going right back to calling the rest of the show like nothing ever happened, which diminishes the impact of the end of that match.

The only 2 angles people care about on Raw are Edge/Hardy and Cena/Angle, so set up the show to reflect that. The last hour (or so) should have been focused on Carlito/Masters/HBK, then Cena/Angle, then Edge/Hardy, in that order.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 30.8.05 0944)
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#35 Posted on 30.8.05 0836.41
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0836.51
I liked RAW.

I thought the Angle/Cena segment stole the show, even though there are no references to the prolonged feud they had on SmackDown. But then since eveyone else involved in that feud has been fired (really fired, not Jericho 'fired'), I guess they have to dance around it.

The street fight wasn't bad. The camera work WAS. The directors missed some key impact moments either by focusing on close-ups of the faces or Lita's chest. Very annoying. Also, the announcers did a bad job selling the story of the match (Matt won't quit/die) even while the camera was focused squarely on Matt, the mics wre picking up the conversation and Edge was repeatedly targeting the head. Aha, you say, so with all that, why SHOULD the announcers underscore the plot? Because if the announcers are selling Matt as the weaker guy who needs to be protected from Edge Fury, not a guy who's tough as nails and obsessed. This does NOTHING for Matt as a character to make him the scrappy Tommy Dreamer when Edge (as Raven) won't lose to him.

I think Masters again did a good, credible job. Granted, he wasn't in teh match all that long and he was a bit more winded than I'd like to see from a guy with that little ring time. Carlito stretched the match with some move variety, but I'm still not seeing a style from him, nothing that leads to an obvious coup de grace, which apparently is the Cabana DDT, the move he uses to punk out guests during interviews. Also, just how much of Calrito's accent is exaggerated. Sounds like he's dropping it during his mic work.

I don't buy Tomko as a machine just yet, especially when he knocks out Rosey with a kick to the gut. THE GUT, people!

The Torrie/Candice team (PMS v.3ish) is lame, lame, lame. Ashley is already outperforming the two of them, and it seems like a matter of time before another WWE diva comes to her aid (Trish, right? Who's left?)

I'd rather have Big Show squash jobbers than work an angle with Snitsky, and this seems to be the Big Man Place Filler until they decide what to do with Kane. Since he's got that new book coming out, why isn't he all over the show to sell it?

Still, I enjoyed the show, and I like the booking we've seen, even punctuated with handicap matches as it is.
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#36 Posted on 30.8.05 0849.27
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0849.28
Hardy/Edge ruled it.

And all of you who are pissing and moaning about Masters should remember than when Batista showed up, he was just another random big guy who couldn't talk. Now he's the man (or at least I dig him).
Mayhem
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#37 Posted on 30.8.05 0853.23
Reposted on: 30.8.12 0853.46
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
    The POINT is that Dupree's looking for a new partner to take on the champs, and, with Tomko's decisive victory, Dupree will now decide to get Tomko to team up with him.


Well, I guess that shows how much faith they have in Sylvain Grenier.
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#38 Posted on 30.8.05 1026.42
Reposted on: 30.8.12 1026.58
Anyone else sensing a Flair turn and Masters joining Evolution...or have I watched way too much wrestling?

(edited by hardygrrl on 30.8.05 0827)
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#39 Posted on 30.8.05 1124.32
Reposted on: 30.8.12 1124.37
Saying Chris Masters has mic skills comparable to Carlito is akin to saying that Kevin Nash has longevity comparable to Ric Flair. It's a laughable statement.

Carlito night-in and night-out is consistently funny, swarmy, and gold on the mic. He brings in the little things, like facial ticks and expressions as well as voice inflections. He's on the Jericho/Flair/Angle road of being a heel that still gets people laughing.

Masters, on the other hand, is slow and plodding. Was nobody listening during his promo against Michaels? "No Shawn it...looks like....you're thinning....up here." followed by his one generic facial expression. The guy is a neanderthal, with no skills other than Nathan Jones brawling version 2.0.

It is very appalling to see anyone even think there's a modicum of talent to be polished in Masters. He's a turd, not a diamond in the rough.

(edited by PsychoticMidget on 30.8.05 1126)
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#40 Posted on 30.8.05 1147.19
Reposted on: 30.8.12 1147.23
    Originally posted by Mayhem
      Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
      The POINT is that Dupree's looking for a new partner to take on the champs, and, with Tomko's decisive victory, Dupree will now decide to get Tomko to team up with him.


    Well, I guess that shows how much faith they have in Sylvain Grenier.


Especially considering he's on Smackdown...er...Velocity.
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