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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Israel's Shrinkage
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skorpio17
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#1 Posted on 18.8.05 1736.24
Reposted on: 18.8.12 1736.24
Lots of bad omens in this one.
It started off as "give peace a chance", then "land for peace', now we are down to "land for nothing."
Israeli soldiers dragging out rabbis and I don't believe any of the polls that show Israelis supporting the evacuation.

Anyone here see a silver lining?

I saw a few episodes of Star Trek: TNG with a similar plot, but I don't remember the endings.)
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AWArulz
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#2 Posted on 18.8.05 1810.15
Reposted on: 18.8.12 1811.23
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    Lots of bad omens in this one.
    It started off as "give peace a chance", then "land for peace', now we are down to "land for nothing."
    Israeli soldiers dragging out rabbis and I don't believe any of the polls that show Israelis supporting the evacuation.

    Anyone here see a silver lining?

    I saw a few episodes of Star Trek: TNG with a similar plot, but I don't remember the endings.)


I don't see a lot of silver lining - but here is what I see.

1. Israel is acting via their democracy - their government performed this action - not unlike the recent Eminent Domain rulings here - in order to pull away from Gaza and break from their internal support of Hamas.

2. You can look this up, I think, but the largest employers of Arabs in Gaza were the Jews living there, so, assuming the Arabs living there can take over those businesses and run them effectively, there may be some positive economic impact in Gaza. Now, if they can't, then there can be sort of an "I told you so" attitude among the Israeli government.

3. This sort of isolates the Palestinians, so Israel can guard against Terror easier. Since the west bank security wall went up, terror violence has gone down somewhat (I saw one place that said by 75%, but I don't think it is that high, or attributable entirely to the wall), and this will certainly expose less Jews to violence if they are not in Gaza.

4. The hope is, of course, that Palestine can actually make a go of it as a semi-state. That would be good, but I am doubtful.

I will them luck.
Mr. Boffo
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#3 Posted on 18.8.05 1946.15
Reposted on: 18.8.12 1947.59
I must admit I don't understand. The West Bank and the Gaza Strip were never officially part of Israel. Even the United Nations was opposed to Israeli settlers in those regions. The Forward is reporting that the evacuation has lead to increased cooperation between Israeli and Palestinian police.

I guess I don't even see why there needs to be a silver lining (which implies a mostly bad situation).
PalpatineW
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#4 Posted on 19.8.05 0008.20
Reposted on: 19.8.12 0012.19
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    I must admit I don't understand. The West Bank and the Gaza Strip were never officially part of Israel. Even the United Nations was opposed to Israeli settlers in those regions. The Forward is reporting that the evacuation has lead to increased cooperation between Israeli and Palestinian police.

    I guess I don't even see why there needs to be a silver lining (which implies a mostly bad situation).


I'm not addressing your concern directly, here, but look at it this way: Why are the Israelis leaving? Would the Israelis ever take a similar tack towards Arabs of any stripe?

My point, if I have one, is: a.) What is Israel trying to accomplish and b.) Why are we so accepting of the intense Palestinian race-hate of the Jews, while we give the Jews no credit whatsoever for (largely) avoiding the reverse?
Jaguar
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#5 Posted on 19.8.05 0236.40
Reposted on: 19.8.12 0236.42
I don't know if I would characterize it as race hate. I'm pretty sure the Palestinians would be just as angry at me if I was an Israeli citizen, but not Jewish.

Anyway, it's contested land. And the settlers made it worse by coming in and taking over contested land. So now Israel is pulling those settlements out to hopefully put an end to this struggle. Or at least put a damper on it.

Getting out of Gaza gives Palestinians that much less to gripe about that will play well in the eyes of world opinion.

I think while it may not work as a solution, it was the right thing to do, and I'm happy that the Israeli government has actually followed through with pulling their citizens out of there. That takes balls to forcibly relocate your citizens.
MoeGates
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#6 Posted on 19.8.05 1028.20
Reposted on: 19.8.12 1028.25
There's a huge benefit for Israel - they no longer have to worry about spending the resources to protect a handful of fanatics from Brooklyn living in Gaza. That's what they're accomplishing. Gaza is way WAY more trouble than it's worth. What the hell is in Gaza? A "silver lining?" What are they losing by pulling out?

I'm pretty sure the Palestinians would be just as angry at me if I was an Israeli citizen, but not Jewish.

You've got to be kidding me. The level of Jew-hatred (which is not race-hatred, as there are Jews and Jewish Israelis of almost every race) among the Palestinians - and the Arab world as a whole - has reached almost unbelievable proportions - which is really a shame, as historically this hasn't been the case at all. There is an entirely different attitude toward the Arab, Druze, and other non-Jewish Israelis.
Stilton
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#7 Posted on 19.8.05 1036.15
Reposted on: 19.8.12 1038.51
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2001/israel_and_palestinians/timeline/1948.stm

If my country was taken/given away to someone else, I'd be happy to get a little piece of it back. I guess that's a silver lining.
MoeGates
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#8 Posted on 19.8.05 1057.25
Reposted on: 19.8.12 1059.01


Hey - kind of Nunavut, huh?
skorpio17
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#9 Posted on 19.8.05 1137.13
Reposted on: 19.8.12 1138.36
In the big picture this is seen as a victory for terrorists and a reward for suicide bombings.

The suicide bombers weren’t coming from Gaza anyway, 95% came from elsewhere. The security issue is that the Israeli army was stretched too thin to have to protect Gaza. My problem is the forced evacuation of Israeli families who haved lived in their homes for 35 years.
They are not violent extremists, they are innocent people who lived there at the urging of their government.
It is not just religious fanatics to believe Gaza is part of the biblical land of Israel. To suggest otherwise is historical dishonesty.

The settlers have not committed any crimes and don't deserve to have their homes and fields bulldozed.
My solution would've been giving the Palestinians the land and letting the settlers stay, while warning them that they would not have the protection of Israel. The conflict was that the mere presense of Israelis living in Gaza is so offensive to the Palestinians that the Israelis must be removed or killed. The settlers could have chosen to stay and die rather than be forced into retreat.

The rosy scenario is that Palestians will spend all the money coming in on building their economy instead of weapons. And Palestinians will somehow be satisfied with just Gaza, at least in the short term.
vsp
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#10 Posted on 19.8.05 1438.14
Reposted on: 19.8.12 1438.14
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    My solution would've been giving the Palestinians the land and letting the settlers stay, while warning them that they would not have the protection of Israel.


If you give the Palestinians land that's occupied by Israelis who refuse to leave, exactly what are the Palestinians supposed to do with it? Drive through the streets, point at the Israeli houses and say "That's mine, that's mine, that's mine" even though other people are living there?

No protection of Israel == death sentence for whoever stayed. Better to break it off cleanly and get them the hell out of there.


Eddie Famous
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#11 Posted on 19.8.05 1755.04
Reposted on: 19.8.12 1755.05
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    In the big picture this is seen as a victory for terrorists and a reward for suicide bombings.


Even the Israelis themselves don't believe this. Every poll I've seen of the population has supported this.

And Israel has bulldozed many Palestinian buildings in the past so...

    Originally posted by skorpio17
    It is not just religious fanatics to believe Gaza is part of the biblical land of Israel. To suggest otherwise is historical dishonesty.


And the United States is the historical land of "native americans". Gaza doesn't belong to Israel, period, Bebe the Idiot Netanyahu notwithstanding.

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