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22.9.07 0113
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - "101 Most Shocking Pro Wrestling Moments"...
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Mike Zeidler
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#41 Posted on 17.8.05 1549.38
Reposted on: 17.8.12 1551.06
    Originally posted by rv581
    Nah, actually the problem was the exact opposite -- Inoki & Ali agreed to a "worked" match in the weeks prior, but Ali felt that a predetermined bout would be deceitful/dishonest to the fans, and would thus violate his Muslim values. He basically forced Inoki into a "real" match just days before stepping into the ring... and Inoki didn't know WHAT to do. Despite Ali not being the hardest puncher in the world, Inoki was absolutely **terrified** of getting punched by "The Greatest" and spent just about the entire fight on his back, trying to kick Ali's legs.

    The fight was ruled a draw.



Ali & Inoki did agree to a worked match, and the only reason Ali agreed to it was the $6 million he was offered to do so. When he first got a good look at Inoki, Ali decided that he could actually take inoki in a real fight, so he wanted it changed into shoot. The two sides went back and forth for the entire buildup to the event with it looking like Ali was going to pull out because they couldn't agree to the terms.

During the match itself Ali wanted to get down on the mat with Inoki, but his cornermen (Freddie Blassie included) kept discouraging him, thinking that Inoki would outwrestle Ali and disgrace him by doing so.

All the while this was going on Vincent K. McMahon was over in Japan trying to build get as much out of this as possible (Vince Sr. sent him over with Blassie to help promote the closed circuit event they were doing in New York.)

Apparently Vince's plan (with the referee) was to have the referee wear a blade on his thumb, have the bout go a couple of rounds, and have the referee "accidentally" collide with with Ali to blade him, which would result in a ref's stoppage for blood. Hoping it would build interest for a rematch. Sounds to me like the best possible ending for all involved.
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#42 Posted on 17.8.05 1558.47
Reposted on: 17.8.12 1558.52
    Originally posted by Cactus Adam
    Ric Flair jumping ship to the WWF and bringing the "big gold belt" with him in '91 HAS to be high on this list. This was back in an era when Vince did not acknowledge the existence of other wrestling companies on air and in fact, if I recall, didn't even allow several well-established veterans to use their own names on-air (I don't ever remember hearing the names "Curt Hennig" or "Kerry Von Erich" during this era)
Von Erich was frequently referred to by his real name, as I recall, though it was underemphasized compared to "The Texas Tornado." Use of Hennig's name was a lot rarer, but somebody would let it drop every once in a while.

Still, no list of shocking wrestling moments would be complete without Ric Flair, Real World's Champion. I'd probably put it in the top 10.
rv581
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#43 Posted on 17.8.05 1604.17
Reposted on: 17.8.12 1605.02
    Originally posted by Zundian
    Ali & Inoki did agree to a worked match, and the only reason Ali agreed to it was the $6 million he was offered to do so. When he first got a good look at Inoki, Ali decided that he could actually take inoki in a real fight, so he wanted it changed into shoot. The two sides went back and forth for the entire buildup to the event with it looking like Ali was going to pull out because they couldn't agree to the terms.

    During the match itself Ali wanted to get down on the mat with Inoki, but his cornermen (Freddie Blassie included) kept discouraging him, thinking that Inoki would outwrestle Ali and disgrace him by doing so.

    All the while this was going on Vincent K. McMahon was over in Japan trying to build get as much out of this as possible (Vince Sr. sent him over with Blassie to help promote the closed circuit event they were doing in New York.)

    Apparently Vince's plan (with the referee) was to have the referee wear a blade on his thumb, have the bout go a couple of rounds, and have the referee "accidentally" collide with with Ali to blade him, which would result in a ref's stoppage for blood. Hoping it would build interest for a rematch. Sounds to me like the best possible ending for all involved.

You're right that the money was the motivating part in the beginning, but wrong about most of the rest (and via financial irregularities, Ali only made $2.2MM & Inoki **much** less than that).

The original script was for Ali to pound Inoki for 6 or 7 rounds & Inoki would blade himself, gushing all over the place. Ali would then appeal to the ref to stop the fight -- at which point Inoki would jump him from behind & pin him. As Bob Arum (who was in charge of the closed-circuit deal) put it, this would satisfy the Japanese fans by giving Inoki the win -- and Ali would save face in what Arum called "Pearl Harbor all over again."

But Ali's conscience (religious beliefs) bothered him after he got to Japan, and he refused to go through any of the rehearsals. Also, Ali was legitimately injured in the fight, ruptured blood vessels in his left leg (to the tune of a quart of blood) and put his career in serious jeopardy. He also failed to receive adequate medical care after the fight.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#44 Posted on 17.8.05 1615.14
Reposted on: 17.8.12 1619.35
    Originally posted by hhhgamewmx7
    Well Dude, I just gave a list of some things that when I saw or heard about them, shocked me. Doesn't make a difference when they happened, it's just I don't rememebr much when I was 7. I think Lesnar landing on his head was more shcoking then most other ''bunch of stuff that happened''.
1: Most "shocking" incidents (including those non-wrestling related) dont stay "shocking" for very long. IMO, stuff like John Cena going to RAW, NWO returns to WWE, and Brock Lesner's failed SSS were big deals at the time, and stayed big deals for a little while afterwards, but dont really stand the test of time. Of those 3 examples I just listed, only John Cena moving to RAW is even relevant to anyone anymore, and only because it just happened. But next year, or 5, 10, 15 years from now, will anyone really remember or care that John Cena left SD for RAW? Probably not.

2: Going back to the 3 examples above, what really seperates them from other similar incidents? Here are a few more from your list:

  • Mae Young gives birth to a hand
    Lots of dumb stuff has happened on wrestling TV. Katie Vick? Shock Master?Flair in the nuthouse? RoboCop saves Sting?

  • Brock Lesnar Shooting star press at WMXIX
    Lost of guys have been injured by botched wrestling moves: Kurt's concussion at the hands of HHH? Sid breaking his leg? Foley through the cage? Kurt breaking Bob Holly's arm?

  • Matt Hardy returns to Raw/nWo comes to WWE
    There have been a TON of bigger returns than these. Flars's return to WCW? Bret agrees to work with WWE again? X-Pac's return to RAW even?

    The list goes on & on, but you get the idea. I'm not saying MY examples above should make it on geemoney's list either, I just dont see how any of the things you listed seperate themselves from anything else that has happened.
  • Deputy Marshall
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    #45 Posted on 17.8.05 1634.24
    Reposted on: 17.8.12 1637.34
      Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
      RoboCop saves Sting?


    Continuities collide! Does this mean that in storyline mode the future of the world portrayed in WCW eventually becomes what's shown in the film "RoboCop?" Did RoboCop travel back in time to save Sting? If so, then it would have had to be pretty important for Sting to be saved from the 4 Horsemen. My God...what horrible event would have occurred had Sting NOT been saved?

    Sidenote - This thread reminded me that I really should pick up Wrestlecrap by R.D. Reynolds, since I've been meaning to for awhile.

    Anyways...I think the more important point to consider is what the audience for a book of this sort would be. Who is the book going to be targeted to? If you're going for an audience that's going to be a little more "inside" and want in-depth writing on each incident, I'd change it from 101 to 50 or less, which would allow more backstory to (and examination of) the events leading up to the shocking moments, the moments themselves, and their aftermath.

    Say, for instance, you're shooting for a book that's going to be 350 pages. That'd leave on average about three and a half pages per story, which probably wouldn't be enough space to adequately cover many items on the list. If it's dropped down to 50, then you've got seven pages on average, which could give you much more room to fully investigate the incidents in question. Hell, the whole Brody incident could probably be a book in and of itself...and really should, since I bet it'd be an absolutely fascinating read on a lot of levels.

    There's always items that you had on your original list that can go a page or less to run down. However, I worry then that it might result in a book that seems like it has a lot of filler in it. People who would buy this might want something a little more in-depth, and might be a little turned off by a book that they may perceive to be just a list with not a lot of substance.

    I have to admit that I can't be completely subjective as it pertains to my own personal preferences, and a list of 101 Shocking Moments might outsell something more smarkish that has a smaller list. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

    Regardless, I commend you for taking the initiative to do a project of this sort, which looks like it'll be quite daunting. I'll definitely buy a copy.
    hhhgamewmx7
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    #46 Posted on 17.8.05 1645.01
    Reposted on: 17.8.12 1646.28
      Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
      Mae Young gives birth to a hand
      Lots of dumb stuff has happened on wrestling TV. Katie Vick? Shock Master?Flair in the nuthouse? RoboCop saves Sting?

    Well, seeing as Katie Vick did make the original list it was a valid suggestion

      Brock Lesnar Shooting star press at WMXIX
      Lost of guys have been injured by botched wrestling moves: Kurt's concussion at the hands of HHH? Sid breaking his leg? Foley hrough the cage? Kurt breaking Bob Holly's arm?

    Well, i didn't want ot spend all day listing injuries and since this incident happened at the main event of WM its understandable that it stands out.

      Matt Hardy returns to Raw/nWo comes to WWE
      There have been a TON of bigger returns than these. Flars's return to WCW? Bret agrees to work with WWE again? X-Pac's return to RAW even?

    Seeing as his return was a shock and it was what i was thinking as a suggestion, i put it on my list, so shoot me. I undertsand what you mean by there have been other returns its just i didn't think of them at the time of making my list.
    NickBockwinkelFan
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    #47 Posted on 17.8.05 1842.35
    Reposted on: 17.8.12 1842.40
      Originally posted by AWArulz
      I dunno. One I thought might be on there was April 6, 1984: Ken Patera brawls with police and is sent to prison for 18 months.

      That was big back in early WWF days (national days)

      I'm sure there's gotta be something shocking with Georgeous George - but I can't remember. Get Nick Bockwinckle Fan in here!




    He had it on there:

    99.) Arrest of Patera/Saito

    I was in high school when this happened (outside of Chicago) and this was a huge deal in the Chicago/Milwaukee tv & press at the time. We talked about it in school for months. I mean who here hasn't been late to the drive thru and be unable to get service. To think the solution is to pick up a 30 pound boulder and throw it thru the window is pretty mind blowing. Then they proceeded to kick the crap out of a number of cops responding to the boulder toss.

    During the interim between the crime and the trial, Patera joined Studd and Heenan in the WWF for a very hot program with Andre, until his sentencing in June 1985.

    I really should see the recent Patera shoot interveiw that came out this year, maybe it has more info.


    (edited by NickBockwinkelFan on 17.8.05 1944)
    Has-been
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    #48 Posted on 17.8.05 2115.23
    Reposted on: 17.8.12 2115.50
      Originally posted by Cactus Adam
      Ric Flair jumping ship to the WWF and bringing the "big gold belt" with him in '91 HAS to be high on this list. This was back in an era when Vince did not acknowledge the existence of other wrestling companies on air and in fact, if I recall, didn't even allow several well-established veterans to use their own names on-air (I don't ever remember hearing the names "Curt Hennig" or "Kerry Von Erich" during this era).

      The "Higher Power" thing doesn't even belong. Madusa throwing the women's title in the garbage should be WAY lower (who cares? what did it ultimately mean?).

      How about "WCW turns Scott Hall's real-life alcoholism into an angle"? Maybe that's more crass than shocking, though...


    I'm thinking I remember Gene Okerlund calling him Hennig during a live interview and being told "That's Mr Perfect to you Okerlund" or something along those lines. Don't know if that was Okerlund's mistake or something intentional to stress the AWA Hennig was gone.
    SKLOKAZOID
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    #49 Posted on 17.8.05 2139.07
    Reposted on: 17.8.12 2139.22
    Hennig and Von Erich were primarily referred to by their "gimmick" names, but were acknowledged by their real names from time to time. It wasn't usually a "secret" but more of a fun fact. Usually, it was mentioned to make a commentator like Gorilla Monsoon appear "in the know" and give them more credibility.

    They also did this with Ricky Steamboat, and Savage was a commentator on Superstars and seemed to be the only person that acknowledges that he was a former IC Champ and that he beat him.

    StampedeFan23
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    #50 Posted on 18.8.05 1355.36
    Reposted on: 18.8.12 1358.17
    If you want to go way back, I think you'd have to mention the Frank Gotch/George Hackenschmidt fights. After their first match (which Gotch won), Gotch paid a wrestler named Ad Santel to injure Hackenschmidt's leg during a training bout, thus ensuring Gotch would win the next match and keep his title. It was a huge scandal at the time, back in 1911.

    I'd also like to mention...

    - Plane crash injures Ric Flair, ends the career of Johnny Valentine.
    - Ric Flair returns to the ring after plane crash.
    - Dynamite Kid injuries leave him in a wheelchair.
    - The Ishigun faction jump from New Japan to All Japan.
    - Shane Douglas throws the NWA title to the ground, founding ECW.

    Quezzy
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    #51 Posted on 18.8.05 1455.32
    Reposted on: 18.8.12 1456.30
    First of all, chill out people, he asked for our opinions and anybody who wants to give their opinion is allowed to suggest whatever they want. There are no wrong answers in an opinionated subject.

    - I thought JayJayDean had some good in ring suggestions, spefically the Angle/McMahon match, Rock/Foley chairshots, one of the crucifixtions and Stone Cold breaking his neck. You could probably put the TLC match on there also as the match as a whole was a pretty new thing. Also, on my own personal list would also be Elix Skipper walking the top of the cage in TNA, but I don't know if that is well known enough to be shocking in the wrestling universe.

    - I think Stone Cold's Austin 3:16 quote could be higher, especially if you made it more like "Stone Cold's antics" or "Stone Cold's rise" That way in one subject you could cover the double turn between Hart/Stone Cold, the milk truck, the zamboni, and whatever else.

    - edoug suggested the Rock getting high SNL ratings, I wouldn't chose that one specific thing but maybe instead just a topic about the Rock's successful move to Hollywood

    - On the subject of deaths, out of the wrestlers I've watched Owen is definitely #1, probably followed by Pillman because it happened so close to Raw airing. But ahead of Holly, Hennig, and Bulldog I would put Chris Candido, that completely shocked me considering he had just been on a TNA ppv and tapings a couple of days previous and he had overcome so much and straightened out his life.

    - I actually like Nash uses Rey as a lawn dart, I thought it was a pretty shocking moment and one of the many great moments the nWo gave us, but again you could combine them into one nWo category that includes the lawn dart, Scott Hall appearing and Nash powerbombing Bischoff through a table. Hogan turning heel should definitely be it's own category though.

    - Also how about Chris Benoit winning the World Title and embracing Eddie, the WWE Champion, in the middle of the ring. Maybe that's more along the line of top 101 greatest moments but I thought it was pretty shocking to see Benoit and Eddie both holding the main titles.

    - How about HBK sticking the Canadian flag up his nose? Maybe more controversial than shocking, I don't know, you could probably do a general DX topic like nWo and Austin.

    - Also I thought Bret Hart turning heel after years of being THE babyface was pretty shocking.

    - What about Bret's stroke? Stu's death?

    (edited by Quezzy on 18.8.05 1316)
    rv581
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    #52 Posted on 18.8.05 1509.12
    Reposted on: 18.8.12 1510.03
    Hacksaw Jim Duggan & the Iron Sheik getting arrested for doing drugs together in a car was pretty shocking at the time... kayfabe was still in full swing and those two were **supposed** to be arch-enemies of one another.
    NickBockwinkelFan
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    #53 Posted on 18.8.05 2200.43
    Reposted on: 18.8.12 2201.31
      Originally posted by Quezzy
      I thought JayJayDean had some good in ring suggestions, spefically...Stone Cold breaking his neck.


    That story has it's own irony to it as well. Austin always was upset at Owen for "not protecting him" with the piledriver and Austin broke Chono's neck with the exact same move in 1993.
    The Guinness.
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    #54 Posted on 18.8.05 2234.59
    Reposted on: 18.8.12 2235.04
    Eh

    I've grown bored of this already, yet I keep reading it.

    The only suggestion I have is to move all of the Brian Pillman instances listed, list them lower than his death. Of all the Brian Pillamn numbers listed his death should be higher that pulling a gun on Austin. His death did come out of nowhere and basically created the questioning of wrestlers living past the age of 35.

    Back to the opening though, that is just my opinion. We can all try to out number the most shocking moments in wrestling history, truly "it doesn't matter what your name is".

    I'm not trying to be a dick, the book may be a good idea, it may not. Either way this thread has come to be exactly what the creator didn't want in the first place. Lets all list what we think should go where numerically. (my suggestion included).


    (edited by The Guinness.Lanny Poffo? on 18.8.05 2037)
    too-old-now
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    #55 Posted on 19.8.05 0938.08
    Reposted on: 19.8.12 0939.00
    A couple of older memories came to mind.


    The Magnificent One, the original Rock, Don Muraco, stuffing his face full of donuts to contrast himself vs. Backlund - the Rock didn't need to pretend to be in shape - this was as much a shock because at the time Muraco was in better shape than most of the roster.

    Capt. Lou Albano appearing on Cindy Lauper's video "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" was more of a shock - Capt. Lou was always a heel and this was when kayfabe was still protected.

    Black Jack Mulligan's Iron Claw getting censored (x'd out) from broadcasts was fairly shocking since we hadn't seen anyone do that.

    Killer Kahn breaking Andre the Giant's leg - yet Andre remained undefeated.



    mikebuk
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    #56 Posted on 21.8.05 1753.57
    Reposted on: 21.8.12 1754.03
      Originally posted by Has-been
        Originally posted by Cactus Adam
        Ric Flair jumping ship to the WWF and bringing the "big gold belt" with him in '91 HAS to be high on this list. This was back in an era when Vince did not acknowledge the existence of other wrestling companies on air and in fact, if I recall, didn't even allow several well-established veterans to use their own names on-air (I don't ever remember hearing the names "Curt Hennig" or "Kerry Von Erich" during this era).

        The "Higher Power" thing doesn't even belong. Madusa throwing the women's title in the garbage should be WAY lower (who cares? what did it ultimately mean?).

        How about "WCW turns Scott Hall's real-life alcoholism into an angle"? Maybe that's more crass than shocking, though...


      I'm thinking I remember Gene Okerlund calling him Hennig during a live interview and being told "That's Mr Perfect to you Okerlund" or something along those lines. Don't know if that was Okerlund's mistake or something intentional to stress the AWA Hennig was gone.



    Similar to Faarooq Asad's 1st WWF interview, when Okerlund called him Ron Simmons, to FA's annoyance !
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