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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - politically correct sayings/phrases question
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dMp
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#1 Posted on 28.7.05 0658.48
Reposted on: 28.7.12 0659.01
Kevin Nash used the phrase "chinese fire-drill" on WWE.com, and it is being discussed and explained in a thread on the wrestling board here.
http://the-w.com/threadx.php/id=26665

People are upset about him using that, as it is derogatory and insulting to Chinese people.

Granted, it isn't a nice thing to say, but does that make it racist as some suggest?
It doesn't say anything about the people itself. It says something about the way certain things were apparently (dis)organised. Should it be taken *that* personal?

I know there are sayings and phrases out there that are much worse, and that might have become more standard in usage over the years but can still be considered very racist. But this doesn't strike me as one of them.

And, as inquiring minds have to know, if sayings like Chinese fire-drill are considered insulting, should I be offended when someone talks about Dutch treats, going Dutch, being in Dutch, Dutch ovens *, etc etc?
AFAIK none of these are very complimentary of my own country/people.
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ShotGunShep
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#2 Posted on 28.7.05 0858.56
Reposted on: 28.7.12 0859.01
It's getting pretty ridiculous. I've heard people tell me more than once not to say, "excuse my French" after swearing.

Wikipedia lists "Commie" as offensive, as well as Russki (to some). Don't quite agree witht hose two.
Mr. Boffo
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#3 Posted on 28.7.05 0923.36
Reposted on: 28.7.12 0929.01
Well Commie does have a negative connotation, I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_phrases_based_on_stereotypes is a list of common English phrases based on stereotypes. I don't know why Chinese finger cuffs are on the list.
OlFuzzyBastard
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#4 Posted on 28.7.05 1027.23
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1027.33
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    I don't know why Chinese finger cuffs are on the list.


Most likely because anyone can contribute anything they want to Wikipedia.
ShotGunShep
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#5 Posted on 28.7.05 1100.47
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1101.13
Yeah, commie does have somewhat of a negative connotation, but in my mind, any "communist" who is hurt and offended by the word commie isn't tough enough to be a communist.
Jobberman
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#6 Posted on 28.7.05 1131.56
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1136.18
As an American of Irish descent, should I be offended when I hear the term "Paddy Wagon"?
dwaters
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#7 Posted on 28.7.05 1148.09
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1152.33
I thought part of the brilliance of the show "Seinfeld" was the ability to point out some of silliness of PC...

Jerry "How can I be racist if I like the race...?"

or when the mailman who happens to be chinese gets all indignant when asked where a good chinese restaurant is.
"Do you think we all live together?" "No, you are a mailman and would know the neighborhood a lot better than I would"

at the same time, it also pokes fun at the beliefs people have about other cultures...
"Donna Chang is not Chinese? I thought I was getting advice from a Chinese woman! This changes everything!"

or for dMp our confusion about his homeland--
"That's in Holland.
Then where is The Netherlands?
Where Dutch people live.
Then who are the Dutch?"
(paraphrased poorly)

Mr. Boffo
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#8 Posted on 28.7.05 2055.48
Reposted on: 28.7.12 2059.02
From http://www.stanthecaddy.com/dvd-in-europe--discuss.html

George: What is Holland?
Jerry: What do you mean, 'what is it?' It's a country right next to Belgium.
George: No, that's the Netherlands.
Jerry: Holland is the Netherlands.
George: Then who are the Dutch?
dwaters
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#9 Posted on 28.7.05 2110.47
Reposted on: 28.7.12 2111.44
Thanks. I knew it went something like that.
dMp
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#10 Posted on 29.7.05 0336.55
Reposted on: 29.7.12 0337.24
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    From http://www.stanthecaddy.com/dvd-in-europe--discuss.html

    George: What is Holland?
    Jerry: What do you mean, 'what is it?' It's a country right next to Belgium.
    George: No, that's the Netherlands.
    Jerry: Holland is the Netherlands.
    George: Then who are the Dutch?


Yeah, us having the 3 different names (though apparently Dutch in the past could have meant Deutsch=German) is pretty confusing I guess.

IMO funny story btw was that I learned what a Dutch oven is at the WM21 meet & greet.
I was talking to Christian, mentioned that I came all the way from the Netherlands to watch him win the money in the bank match. He said thanks, signed the paper and I was ready to walk away. He then said "From the Netherlands? So you are Dutch? Do you do Dutch ovens every night?" He then explained what it was to me & my 2 friends who were behind me in line. whispering pretty much because he didn't want Joy G. who was next to him to hear it
Wolfram J. Paulovich
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#11 Posted on 29.7.05 1557.05
Reposted on: 29.7.12 1559.02
I cook a lot of stews, soups and pot roasts, and I use a Dutch Oven for most of those. My old roommate had no idea that a Dutch Oven was an actual cooking pot. Meanwhile, I had no idea that "Dutch Oven" was a horrible farting bed prank. So the first time the pot was mentioned was a bit confusing. He was looking for another cooking pot, and I kept telling him that it was in the cupboard "behind the Dutch Oven." He kept giving me this really funny look and then yelling, "Dutch Ovennnnnnn!!!!!!!!!" Of course, this made me think he was partially nuts (he was), so I repeated my comments more slowly and articulately, which only resulted in more hysterical cries of "Dutch Oven," which resulted in more creeping fear from me, and so on.

I finally had to hold the pot up in front of him. "This is a Dutch Oven." He then sat me down and explained what the term meant to him. Oh, the things you never learn if you don't go to camp as a kid.
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#12 Posted on 29.7.05 2121.35
Reposted on: 29.7.12 2122.05
I think the term "Chinese firedrill", in the context in which Nash used it, wasn't offensive because of any racial stereotype or anything-- I just found it ironic that Nash, who's not exactly known for his workrate, is criticizing people who work a different style.

I'd invite him to try and do half the things in the ring that Paul London can do, but he'd probably break his leg before he even made it to the ring.
Hogan's My Dad
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#13 Posted on 29.7.05 2140.50
Reposted on: 29.7.12 2141.45
Okay, what is chinese firedrill? Or what does it refer to? I've never heard this in my life.
EddieBurkett
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#14 Posted on 29.7.05 2144.53
Reposted on: 29.7.12 2149.18
Click Here (The W)
Zeruel
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#15 Posted on 30.7.05 1023.00
Reposted on: 30.7.12 1023.57
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    I think the term "Chinese firedrill", in the context in which Nash used it, wasn't offensive because of any racial stereotype or anything


As someone who is part Asian, I beg to differ. I guess you'd have to be Asian to fully understand it. As I defined in the other thread, "Chinese" in the term "Chinese firedrill" means "inept."

What if Nash said "They shouldn't Nigger-rig the matchs so much."

Would that make "Nigger" not offensive because he used it "in context?" I think not.
ekedolphin
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#16 Posted on 30.7.05 1851.28
Reposted on: 30.7.12 1851.55
Ah. I hadn't thought of it that way before. I concede your point, then. Perhaps what I should have said was, "I don't think Nash used it because he's a racist, or to intentionally denigrate people of Asian descent"-- though it's still a derogatory term.
ShotGunShep
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#17 Posted on 30.7.05 2129.23
Reposted on: 30.7.12 2131.06
Why would it necessarily bother someone who is part Asian? Shouldn't it bother someone necessarily who is Chinese?

There are a lot of words that used to have hateful meanings but don't anymore. Language is fluid.
Is saying "I got gypped" offensive to the Romani? We have to look at context and the intention of the speaker, otherwise we are ALL going to be offended, and that is just ridiculous because being offended for the sake of being offended is just ridiculous.

Are people offended at the stereotype that Asians are generally hardworking, smart and studious?

(edited by ShotGunShep on 30.7.05 1937)
AWArulz
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#18 Posted on 30.7.05 2322.20
Reposted on: 30.7.12 2323.54
Generally speaking, I think all stereotypes are denegrating to individuals within the groups that they are part of (and most of us are part of more than one group).

I think probably most of you who read here in politics will concede that I would consider myself part of the "Politically conservative" group. And some of you would be in the "politically liberal" group. And I have been guilty of applying the stereotype of "liberal" to you, as you have "conservative" to me. But there are different types of each group., right? I mean, just to name names, Old Fuzzy Bastard and Dr. Dirt would probably both admit to liberalism, but in many ways, the stereotype doesn't apply to both of them the same.

And when it comes to racial, ethnicic and lifestyle-oriented stereotypes, well, that's pretty much just wrong. You have to excise them out of your life in some way. And it is, in my opinion, extra wrong to use them when you're with "your group", but not when you're with the larger group.

A guy in my company was the nicest guy I ever met in all our meetings. Through he was obviously, and literally a southerner, I noticed none of the stereotypical barely concealed racism often associated with guys from the deep south, especially rural guys. Until we two took a ride together - just we two. Since he thought I was part of "his group" (since I sort of live in the south), he felt like he could toss some "n"s out. And he was shocked when I asked him to stop and more shocked when I asked our supervisor to break our work schedules apart (although I didn't rat him out to our supervisor (sterotypes of rodents are OK in my book).

No, stuff like "chinese firedrill", "Paddy wagon", or calling a young man "boy" because he's got a different level of melanin than you do is just plain wrong. In fact, today, if what I mentioned happened, I probably would rat him out to our supervisor.
Zeruel
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#19 Posted on 30.7.05 2323.58
Reposted on: 30.7.12 2324.53
    Originally posted by ShotGunShep
    Why would it necessarily bother someone who is part Asian? Shouldn't it bother someone necessarily who is Chinese?


My mother is from Taiwan. Therefore, I'm part Taiwanese. That still makes me part Chinese as many, many people fled to there a while back. It could be argued that most of the people in the Pacific region came from China, but that is a discussion for later.

I can't believe that we are actually arguing if people can be offended by a statement or not.

By ShotGunShep's logic, white people CAN'T be offended by "Nigger" because they aren't of African ancestry.

Everyone knows my feelings so I can't really add anything else before I start repeating myself.
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