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23.11.07 0738
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Hanoi Jane returns...and Ricky Martin saves us from stereotypes
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The Thrill
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#1 Posted on 25.7.05 1802.48
Reposted on: 25.7.12 1804.19
Older W's may remember this:

(image removed)
(July 1972--Jane Fonda strides a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun--AP)

Now Hanoi Jane's at it again. Ms. Fonda announced (at an appearance promoting her book) that she's starting up a bus tour to oppose the Iraq war. (AP) Fear not, petroleum-haters...the bus will run on vegetable oil. (How well it'll run with slashed tires is another matter.)

AWArulz...please tee off on this. (image removed)

And on a side note...

(image removed)
(Getty Images)

...Ricky Martin (remember him?) is out to save Arab children (AP) from icky stereotyping in Western media. Check it out...

    Originally posted by that article linked above
    Martin, a Puerto Rico native, posed for photos with fans at the youth conference, at one point draping over his shoulders a traditional Palestinian kaffiyeha scarf with the slogan "Jerusalem is ours" written in Arabic on it.


Way to not offend the Jewish folks of the world, Ricky. Good luck with that global fight against child porn and prostitution, too.

God save us from celebrities saving us from ourselves.
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redsoxnation
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#2 Posted on 25.7.05 2151.21
Reposted on: 25.7.12 2152.13
I thought that it was going to be about Ricky Morton, not Ricky Martin. Anyway, didn't Ricky Martin's 15 minutes end last century?
As for Hanoi Jane: Shouldn't she be driving her bus around downtown Baghdad? Or, better yet, downtown Riyadh without any headware. I'm sure they'd treat Jane properly there. It always is sad that Ted Turner was the sane half of any married couple.

(edited by redsoxnation on 25.7.05 2252)
Brian P. Dermody
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#3 Posted on 25.7.05 2212.32
Reposted on: 25.7.12 2213.40
Youse guys who are attacking Jane Fonda for something she did over thirty years ago best not be sticking up for Karl Rove.

I'm just saying. There's stupidity and there's potential treason.
BigSteve
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#4 Posted on 25.7.05 2236.18
Reposted on: 25.7.12 2239.56
    Originally posted by Brian P. Dermody
    Youse guys who are attacking Jane Fonda for something she did over thirty years ago best not be sticking up for Karl Rove.

    I'm just saying. There's stupidity and there's potential treason.


Come on, surely we aren't going to resort to "Yeah-but-Karl-Rove"s are we? That...doesn't seem relevant.
Joseph Ryder
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#5 Posted on 25.7.05 2245.12
Reposted on: 25.7.12 2245.14
    Originally posted by BigSteve
      Originally posted by Brian P. Dermody
      Youse guys who are attacking Jane Fonda for something she did over thirty years ago best not be sticking up for Karl Rove.

      I'm just saying. There's stupidity and there's potential treason.


    Come on, surely we aren't going to resort to "Yeah-but-Karl-Rove"s are we? That...doesn't seem relevant.


Why not?
AWArulz
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#6 Posted on 25.7.05 2253.27
Reposted on: 25.7.12 2254.49
    Originally posted by The Thrill
    Older W's may remember this:
    AWArulz...please tee off on this. (image removed)


Whatcha saying about us old guys, Thrill?


We're surprised that Hanoi Jane is against a country that wants so much to be free that thousands of them line up for police jobs knowing that some kid that is hopped up on Allah (or some dumb Mullah's version of Allah, anyway) is pointing a vest-o-bombs at them.

I hope old Jane makes a similar visit during this war. This time to western Pakistan. Just for a walk-about. I suspect that her publicity photos would be just as inspiring.

Look, I saw little Janie on with Letterman awhile back and he asked her and she played how she was misunderstood and how sorry she was - and about two questions later she was doing her Hanoi Jane act.

She's not going to change her spots. Jackals don't do that.

Was that about what you expected? Sorry - hard for me to change my spots either - as far as Jane is concerned.
BigSteve
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#7 Posted on 25.7.05 2308.38
Reposted on: 25.7.12 2310.08
    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
      Originally posted by BigSteve
        Originally posted by Brian P. Dermody
        Youse guys who are attacking Jane Fonda for something she did over thirty years ago best not be sticking up for Karl Rove.

        I'm just saying. There's stupidity and there's potential treason.


      Come on, surely we aren't going to resort to "Yeah-but-Karl-Rove"s are we? That...doesn't seem relevant.


    Why not?


It isn't relevant because the thread was about Jane Fonda and someone made a non-sequitir to reference Karl Rove (not meaning to call you out Brian, just sayin'). It doesn't really get anyone anywhere in a political discussion when one person says, "Person A on the left did X" only to have someone respond "Well, Person B on the right did Y which is worse than X (though it isn't related to either Person A or action X)". I'm all for discussing how Karl Rove is not a traitor for outing a "covert" agent, but regardless of whether he is or not, I don't see how that's a defense for Jane Fonda's stupidity.
Brian P. Dermody
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#8 Posted on 25.7.05 2338.41
Reposted on: 25.7.12 2341.14
You'll notice I wasn't defending Fonda.

I was only trying to raise the level of debate around here. ;)
Deputy Marshall
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#9 Posted on 25.7.05 2350.19
Reposted on: 25.7.12 2357.39
Wait...how would Ricky Martin have known what the scarf said? And is there anyone that can find the original Arabic and accurately translate it? Just the phrase "Jerusalem is ours" doesn't note a specific ownership of the region to the Arabs, in fact what it could mean is that Jerusalem belongs to us all...Muslims, Jews, Christians, etcetera. If so, that's not necessarily a bad thing, is it?

Though you could make the point that organizing a protest on American soil is much different than posing for a photo opportunity with those that we are in direct conflict with, I refuse to defend Jane Fonda on the basis that she starred in the film "Barbarella."
Corajudo
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#10 Posted on 26.7.05 0834.38
Reposted on: 26.7.12 0837.06
Wait...how would Ricky Martin have known what the scarf said? And is there anyone that can find the original Arabic and accurately translate it?

It wouldn't have killed him to think 'Hey, before I put this scarf with Arabic writing on in front of all these cameras and press, maybe I should get a translation.' I realize that's a tall task for Ricky Martin, but I think most people would be that aware.

Just the phrase "Jerusalem is ours" doesn't note a specific ownership of the region to the Arabs, in fact what it could mean is that Jerusalem belongs to us all...Muslims, Jews, Christians, etcetera. If so, that's not necessarily a bad thing, is it?

It could mean the latter. But, I would bet my mortgage and at least one of my kidneys on the former.
AWArulz
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#11 Posted on 26.7.05 1311.21
Reposted on: 26.7.12 1313.36
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    Though you could make the point that organizing a protest on American soil is much different than posing for a photo opportunity with those that we are in direct conflict with, I refuse to defend Jane Fonda on the basis that she starred in the film "Barbarella."


Of course, Janie did just that first. (see pictures of her and John Kerry [altered and unaltered] that occured before she humped the Cong's AA guns) And there's some feeling similar to VietNam. While I was just a teenage kid in the early 70s, I remember what it was like. Other kids, a few years older than me, coming home in Body bags; kids who looked a lot different than my Mom and Dad as kids holding protest marches. No positive Movies about the war (except Green Berets) like in Korea or WW2. And Janie smoked a few hooters, did it with Hayden and said, what the heck, "My Career's kind of in a stall (she had already shot Klute, but hadn't had much of a hit since she was in Barfoot in the Park in 67) and this is popular right now and here we go."

I spoke to one of my Buds from the service last night on IM after I wrote the other message in this thread. He was a couple years older (I think he went in the service as a Draftee in like 72 or 73 - he was a Specialist 4 when I was a newbie and he stayed in awhile - maybe 10 years) He asked if I referred to our dartboard or the toilet paper the 1st Calvary division had. Ok, Sammie, here it is.

Look, Janie could never redeem herself with our crowd. There's nothing she could do. Thank God she wasn't in the Lord of the Rings movies, cause I wanted to see those.

too-old-now
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#12 Posted on 28.7.05 1011.01
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1011.23
It's a shame that she'll never be forgiven by some, especially by the parents who are sending their own kids off to die in a war that Bush lied to start.

There is a difference between forgiving and forgetting - and I'm not saying we should forget about her past.

Lots of folks did stupid stuff in the early 70s. Celebrity status affords her the forum to make a point about what's going on now. It doesn't make anything she ever did right or wrong, and some folks will choose not to listen based on her past actions.

I think she's not trying to target the same group now anyway - she knows that among people over 50, most have already made their minds up about her. But many of those in their teens, the Gen Y's and Gen X's, don't know all that much about Fonda other than she's the wrinkled babe from the workout videos.

Peace. Is it making a comeback?
The Thrill
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#13 Posted on 28.7.05 1415.26
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1417.30
    Originally posted by too-old-now
    Lots of folks did stupid stuff in the early 70s.


Uh...I wouldn't exactly call giving comfort to the enemy "stupid stuff." Bell bottoms, maybe. Treason, no.


    Originally posted by too-old-now
    Celebrity status affords her the forum to make a point about what's going on now.


It did back then, too...and she slapped every US serviceman in the face. Now she's about to do it again, and we shouldn't be angry? She claims she's regretted the NVA photo-op ever since (more like she regrets having flak thrown her way), but now she's using its notoriety for another left-wing anti-war effort? She ain't sorry at all.


    Originally posted by too-old-now
    I think she's not trying to target the same group now anyway - she knows that among people over 50, most have already made their minds up about her. But many of those in their teens, the Gen Y's and Gen X's, don't know all that much about Fonda other than she's the wrinkled babe from the workout videos.


So we're suddenly supposed to not be offended, based on her latest target demographic? Please.

And surely you should have something better to say than just "yeah, but Bush sucks." Yawn...
Leroy
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#14 Posted on 28.7.05 1436.25
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1437.13
I wish you folks held as much ire for things like the Gulf of Tonkin Incident and the lies that were told that got us into that war as you do for a meaningless celebrity and her arbitrary opinions.

Funny how all of that gets left out of the conversation, and yet Jane Fonda's stupid antics are all important.
Joseph Ryder
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#15 Posted on 28.7.05 1503.29
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1503.55
    Originally posted by The Thrill
    It did back then, too...and she slapped every US serviceman in the face. Now she's about to do it again, and we shouldn't be angry?
Sounds more like she opposes the war. You can oppose the war and not oppose the serviceman (and woman). So no, you shouldn't be angry. She's gonna drive around in a vegetable oil-fueled bus because she believes people are unnecessarily dying. Does that slap you in the face? Does that put you in danger?

    Originally posted by The Thrill
    She claims she's regretted the NVA photo-op ever since (more like she regrets having flak thrown her way), but now she's using its notoriety for another left-wing anti-war effort? She ain't sorry at all.
Why can't we just call it an "anti-war effort"? It's not 100% left-wing anymore, sorry to say.

    Originally posted by The Thrill
    So we're suddenly supposed to not be offended, based on her latest target demographic? Please.
Is that all it takes to offend you? Someone to disagree with this war? Cause that's all she seems to be doing.

    Originally posted by The Thrill
    And surely you should have something better to say than just "yeah, but Bush sucks." Yawn...


You're just making a bunch of blanket statements about a woman based on what she did 20 years ago. Which is fine, I really couldn't give a shit. But then you try to tie it all in to the fact that she's gonna drive a bus around on fucking vegetable oil and raise awareness towards what she believes because she's obviously only doing it to stick it the soldiers. But not everything's about you. Maybe this time around it's only about the Iraqi civilians. No one knows for sure, so let's stop assuming. If you want to slash her tires, fine...DO IT...but please stop whining about her unless she literally slaps you in the face.

(edited by Joseph Ryder on 28.7.05 1305)
BigSteve
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#16 Posted on 28.7.05 1526.18
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1527.46
    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
    Sounds more like she opposes the war. You can oppose the war and not oppose the serviceman (and woman)


Unfortunately, Jane Fonda didn't seem to have found that happy balance. Perhaps now she doesn't oppose the soldiers. But if she poses for a picture with the enemy, indeed that does mean she opposes the soldiers.


    So no, you shouldn't be angry. She's gonna drive around in a vegetable oil-fueled bus because she believes people are unnecessarily dying. Does that slap you in the face? Does that put you in danger?


So Fonda (rightfully) has free reign to criticize the war, but if someone doesn't like what she has to say they need to shut up becuase it doesn't affect them? That's curious.


    Why can't we just call it an "anti-war effort"? It's not 100% left-wing anymore, sorry to say.


You're right. I'd be willing to bet that it's only somewhere around 99% of people who are planning to start bus tours opposing the war that are left-wingers.


    Maybe this time around it's only about the Iraqi civilians.


It is? So then why is she against foreign intervention to remove a murderous dictator that opressed Iraqi civilians for years?

(edited by BigSteve on 28.7.05 1628)
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#17 Posted on 28.7.05 1628.38
Reposted on: 28.7.12 1629.01
This is easily the dumbest/most trollingest non-spam thread I've read all week. It was only through my own morbid sense of curiosity that I didn't delete it as soon as post #1 was placed here, and sure enough, the usual suspects all weigh in with their time-tested, well-worn predictable responses (include me with the final word). Ironically, the fact that you didn't disappoint is perhaps the most disappointing one of all. Please can we just skip it next time? Thanks once again for visiting The W™ message board - where free speech exacts a heavy price.
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