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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - We haven't found Bin Laden yet, but we DID find sex in video games...
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Cerebus
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#1 Posted on 16.7.05 1408.40
Reposted on: 16.7.12 1408.51
(I'll try to spell this one out better.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/media_sex_dc;_ylt=AvWCuNzi.8jWyFekbltWskas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

It seems that the Senate has nothing better to do then to complain about video games that came out a year ago, that are rated 'mature' mind you, that feature 'mature content'.

QUOTE FROM ARTICLE-----
"The disturbing material in 'Grand Theft Auto' and other games like it is stealing the innocence of our children..." Clinton said.
-----END QUOTE.

This little blurb kinda got to me. I'd think you're president husband getting down and dirty in the oval office was more damaging, and nothing became of it, really.

...isn't there SOMETHING more important for these people to go after?

(edited by Cerebus on 16.7.05 1609)
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EddieBurkett
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#2 Posted on 16.7.05 1502.37
Reposted on: 16.7.12 1503.03
The thing is, though, the content that the senators are complaining about isn't even part of the game. Its more like a deleted scene that you have to go digging around in the files (or enter a ton of cheat codes on the console versions) to go find. This has more implications for what constitutes released material with respect to software than it does for the usual round of politicians vs. video games.

Besides, given the rest of the content in GTA, does this really make all that big a difference?

If anyone is really going to be upset by this, it has to be the makers of God of War. Their game not only has an actual sex mini-game as released, but it also features breasts! GTA is once again stealing all the *bad* publicity from the other mature titles.
cranlsn
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#3 Posted on 16.7.05 1938.37
Reposted on: 16.7.12 1938.37
...and it still remains to be seen whether or not the content was actually there "as is", or if the "Hot Coffee" hack just cobbled together some existing content into pseudo-porn...or added it altogether.

Either way...PARENTS should be responsible for what their kids are reading/seeing/playing, not the government.


...and ditto on the comments from Senator Clinton...
EddieBurkett
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#4 Posted on 16.7.05 2227.30
Reposted on: 16.7.12 2227.37
    Originally posted by cranlsn
    ...and it still remains to be seen whether or not the content was actually there "as is", or if the "Hot Coffee" hack just cobbled together some existing content into pseudo-porn...or added it altogether.


Its been proven. (gamespot.com) Gamespot was able to access the content on a PS2, where you can't add models and whatnot.

I wonder if anyone has considered suing EA over the Sims, given that people can mod nudity into that, and whatnot.
vsp
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#5 Posted on 18.7.05 0748.10
Reposted on: 18.7.12 0748.11
If a child is sufficiently fragile to be irreparably damaged by seeing two genital-less polygon figures humping in various positions, exactly why would that child be permitted to play GTA:SA in the first place?

Stories like this are why I twitch whenever I hear the word "Lieberman," and why I'll be sending money to the Any Democrat Who Isn't Joe Or Hillary Fund in 2008.

redsoxnation
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#6 Posted on 18.7.05 0843.25
Reposted on: 18.7.12 0843.37
    Originally posted by vsp
    Stories like this are why I twitch whenever I hear the word "Lieberman," and why I'll be sending money to the Any Democrat Who Isn't Joe Or Hillary Fund in 2008.









Would that include Gore, whose wife was the one who went after the music industry in the 80's?
spf
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#7 Posted on 18.7.05 0927.57
Reposted on: 18.7.12 0928.21
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by vsp
      Stories like this are why I twitch whenever I hear the word "Lieberman," and why I'll be sending money to the Any Democrat Who Isn't Joe Or Hillary Fund in 2008.









    Would that include Gore, whose wife was the one who went after the music industry in the 80's?

Actually, just speaking as one of the board lefties, that was one of the main reasons I didn't vote for Gore in 2000. I mean, I would have rather him than Bush, but I couldn't actually give a vote to him with that in mind.
vsp
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#8 Posted on 18.7.05 0944.11
Reposted on: 18.7.12 0945.14
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Would that include Gore, whose wife was the one who went after the music industry in the 80's?


Tipper Gore makes me itch uncontrollably, especially when the extensive religious-right connections to the PMRC are figured in. (Tipper was the most prominent Washington Wife and the front-person for the group, but let's not leave out Susan "I am God's instrument" Baker or the Rev. Jeff Ling, either.) When she and Al quietly lowered their "Bowdlerize America" banners, Lieberman picked his up and waved it just as fervently.

Tipper's group was not without an occasional point. Blind pig, acorn, once in a while. Lots of rock music IS sexually suggestive. (I should hope so.) Lots of aggressive violent or sexual themes in our media are marketed to and/or accessible to children. America is not a Leave-It-To-Beaver wonderland. Where I depart from Tipper is that I don't believe that it should be one, I don't believe that either religion or government intervention is a constructive way to combat such things, and I've never associated myself with some of the downright scary groups that the PMRC did.

I held my nose twice to vote for Clinton, because I figured that the Vice Presidency was a fairly safe and impotent place for the Gores to sit. In that respect, I was correct. When they picked Lieberman and he went on his "no freedom from religion" tear on the campaign trail, any chances I had of voting for them in 2000 ended.

Would I vote for Al in 2008? Hard to tell. Depends on who his running mate would be and who his opponent would be. Frankly, Lieberman scared me more than Gore did in 2000.


(edited by vsp on 18.7.05 1045)
ekedolphin
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#9 Posted on 18.7.05 2233.04
Reposted on: 18.7.12 2237.20
Even if the video game law is passed, you know it'll be the subject of lawsuits from video game retailers for years to come.

Blockbuster's official policy on "YRV" (youth restricted viewing) products is that the parent has the ability to lock their child out from renting a YRV product. By leaving a certain box in the membership application blank, and a signature line unsigned, they signify that they wish the YRV policy to be enforced. In this instance, anyone who appears to be under 17 who tries to rent an R-rated movie or an M-rated game is carded. If you're under 17, sorry pal, take it up with the folks.

By checking the appropriate box and signing the appropriate line, YRV policy can be deactivated, in which case a 10-year-old could come up and rent GTA: San Andreas. So I'm curious as to whether Blockbuster's official policy would change in the event of such a law being passed.

Ultimately it should be up to the parents, right? And why isn't Congress going after R-rated movies, anyway?
Tenken347
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#10 Posted on 19.7.05 1102.43
Reposted on: 19.7.12 1103.03
Congress is going after games instead of movies for two reasons: One, because video games are still a relatively young medium and don't enjoy the full protection of the first amendment like they aught to. Two, because despite all evidence to the contrary, video games are still viewed as "kid stuff," so mature content in games just baffles them.
Zeruel
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#11 Posted on 20.7.05 1716.58
Reposted on: 20.7.12 1717.27
Well, it looks like they got their wish.

Grand Theft Auto game gets 'adults only' tag
http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTB2MXQ5MTU3BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEdGVzdAMwBHRtcGwDaW5kZXgtaWU-/s/247736
EddieBurkett
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#12 Posted on 20.7.05 1759.58
Reposted on: 20.7.12 1800.36
Not only that, but Rockstar has stopped producing GTA:SA until the content in question can be removed (shacknews.com).

This all seems so misguided, and yet the censors are going to claim a victory here. Rockstar didn't help themselves with their attempt to sleaze their way through it and blame the modders, but this content is not accessible without making an extra effort to get at it that violates the EULA.

I wonder whether this will be used to help prove a) that EULA's are unenforceable and useless, or b) that we need stronger DRM on all our computers to prevent this kind of abuse and therefore hooray for whatever restrictions are coming down the pipeline.

(edited by EddieBurkett on 20.7.05 1900)
ekedolphin
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#13 Posted on 21.7.05 0215.05
Reposted on: 21.7.12 0215.07
Well, ultimately it's Rockstar's fault for putting the content in the game in the first place, and then lying about it. The work of unauthorized modifications? Bullshit. Maybe the unauthorized modifications allow access to the material, but there's indisputable evidence that the material was there to begin with.

And while I'm not personally offended by the material, what did they think was going to happen when people found out about it? And now they're expecting a third quarter loss because they have to re-release the game with the sex scenes removed and recall all the old versions of the game, well, no shit?

Another note on company policy. It is the policy of Blockbuster Inc. not to carry any NC-17-rated movies or AO-rated games. So you can bank on GTA:SA being pulled from Blockbuster shelves as well, even though there's not yet been any official announcement.
Guru Zim
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#14 Posted on 21.7.05 1156.42
Reposted on: 21.7.12 1159.01
It's not quite that simple.

Look, I've never released a piece of software as large as GTA:SA, but I have worked on much smaller applications in my day to day duties as a programmer / DBA.

Sometimes you have to launch a product. To do that, you need to cut features occasionally. Sometimes, this happens after beta testing has already started. If this is the case, you can either make modifications to the files on the disc and hope you don't cut something that is important elsewhere, you can cut it and start beta testing over from scratch, or you can comment it out.

They chose to comment it out. This happens. It just means that they wrote it, decided against it, and commented out the method of reaching it.

Look, this is like being pissed at Super Mario brothers because if you jump up through a block on level 1-2 you can get to the "Minus world", which is just a bug when you take the warp pipe before it has its variables initialized. You were never supposed to get there - how can you blame them for this?
CRZ
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#15 Posted on 21.7.05 1219.44
Reposted on: 21.7.12 1219.58
Wait. Did you just try to compare the minus world with a full-blown (heh) sexual situation? No no no no no.
EddieBurkett
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#16 Posted on 21.7.05 1226.04
Reposted on: 21.7.12 1226.36
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    You were never supposed to get there - how can you blame them for this?


I agree with you, and I think this reeks more of rushed/improper coding practices than anything else, but there is the possibility that this was all planned by Rockstar in the first place (gamespot.com). Granted, an anonymous source who may be an ex-employee isn't terribly credible, so take this with a grain of salt. (Gamespot does...)
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#17 Posted on 21.7.05 1315.45
Reposted on: 21.7.12 1315.52
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    You were never supposed to get there - how can you blame them for this?


Couldn't one make the case that such code should have never been written in the first place (and thus wouldn't have needed to be removed)? I mean, personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal since you are not suppose to be able to play it. But I am sure opponents would argue a mini-game of such content should have never reached the development stage at all.
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#18 Posted on 21.7.05 1408.26
Reposted on: 21.7.12 1409.19
    Originally posted by ges7184
      Originally posted by Guru Zim
      You were never supposed to get there - how can you blame them for this?


    Couldn't one make the case that such code should have never been written in the first place (and thus wouldn't have needed to be removed)? I mean, personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal since you are not suppose to be able to play it. But I am sure opponents would argue a mini-game of such content should have never reached the development stage at all.


No, you couldn't and shouldn't. That's like saying that a movie shouldn't have scenes that are later removed before it is sent to the MPAA or whoever rates movies.

At some point someone decided that the game better not ship with that scenario enabled, so they "cut" it. Now, whether it should have actually been excised from the game or simply commented out is where we have an issue.

Rockstar provided no method of accessing the content. It can't be reached by an in game cheat. It can't be reached without actually modifying the software.

This is a bad precedent if we start to worry about what content is available in unreachable areas of an application. For instance, did you know that DVDs aren't necessarily linear when you play them back? If you do a straight rip of the video VOB file, you can access the data in the order it appears on the disc - which is different than how it is played back. Fight Club is a good example of this.

Now, what if there was a scene in the VOB that was never accessed? An alternative edit that was removed from the approved path, but was stil on the disc as a remnant of the mastering process? Are you saying that any disc with content like this should be scrutinized or recalled?
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#19 Posted on 21.7.05 1551.57
Reposted on: 21.7.12 1558.27
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    That's like saying that a movie shouldn't have scenes that are later removed before it is sent to the MPAA or whoever rates movies.
That's TWO crappy non-sequitur analogies... in the same day, in the same thread! You are setting a HORRRIBLE™ example.
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#20 Posted on 21.7.05 1616.46
Reposted on: 21.7.12 1619.29
His example was that the code should never have been written in the first place. Maybe I should have referenced which argument I was referring to better.

I'm going to stop now, anyway.
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