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25.5.10 1905
The 7 - Baseball - The Black Sox
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Hokienautic
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#1 Posted on 6.7.05 1806.05
Reposted on: 6.7.12 1806.34
Opinion question here. I work for a sports publishing company and we're coming out with a book about the Black Sox. In writing promo copy, the author is insisting that most baseball fans aren't aware of the scandal today -- that players and gamblers conspired to fix the 1919 World Series.

So, how familiar are you with the scandal? Did you recognize the phrase "Black Sox" from the subject and what it meant? Or is this guy right? He doesn't mean that fans today don't know the details -- just that they don't know about it at ALL. He invited me to take a poll of baseball fans to see, so that's what I'm doing here, informally. Thanks.
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Gugs
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#2 Posted on 6.7.05 1810.30
Reposted on: 6.7.12 1810.32
I love the movie Eight Men Out. What self-respecting baseball fan doesn't?
JayJayDean
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#3 Posted on 6.7.05 1812.30
Reposted on: 6.7.12 1812.52
He's nutty. I'd say even the MOST casual baseball fan (sports fan, even) has at least heard of the Black Sox scandal.
Omar Padilla
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#4 Posted on 6.7.05 1814.13
Reposted on: 6.7.12 1814.25
That's the first thing that came to my mind when I first read the thread title.

Good call on the movie, Gugs.
mountinman44
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#5 Posted on 6.7.05 1841.27
Reposted on: 6.7.12 1842.08
The first thing I thought of was the 1919 White Sox. then I thought of going back to work tomorrow. Dammit.
Guru Zim
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#6 Posted on 6.7.05 1852.25
Reposted on: 6.7.12 1852.58
I doubt that the board is a representative sample.
Eddie Famous
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#7 Posted on 6.7.05 1908.18
Reposted on: 6.7.12 1908.46
I imagine most baseball fans know about the Black Sox, and a majority of those think Joe Jackson was an innocent bystander.

They are very wrong, of course.
Brian P. Dermody
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#8 Posted on 6.7.05 2108.30
Reposted on: 6.7.12 2108.47
Between Eight Men Out which was grand and Field of Dreams which was different, but equally awesome, really, any baseball fan who knows anything about history should know at least the basics.

And for a sport so steeped in tradition as opposed to the here and now, that really oughta be anyone eleven and up.

Though Guru's point should be well taken.
bash91
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#9 Posted on 6.7.05 2126.37
Reposted on: 6.7.12 2127.29
I'd agree that any self-respecting fan of baseball would know the Black Sox as well with Guru that this may not be a representative sample. Of course, I asked my wife, who actively despises baseball, if she recognized name Black Sox and she immediately replied with Shoeless Joe Jackson, the White Sox, and almost got the year (she said 1918) so take that for what it's worth.

Tim
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#10 Posted on 6.7.05 2158.41
Reposted on: 6.7.12 2159.01
Count me in with the people that have heard of the Black Sox. I agree that anyone that thinks of themself as anything more than a casual fan ought to have a familiarity with the Black Sox Scandal.

Question about the Black Sox. Am I correct that Shoeless Joe admitted to taking money to fix games but didn't actually admit to having fixed games?
edoug
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#11 Posted on 6.7.05 2227.42
Reposted on: 6.7.12 2227.56
Eight Men Out is a very good movie.I don't know how accurate it was though. Because of the scandal they created the job of commisioner of baseball.

(edited by edoug on 6.7.05 2028)
Eddie Famous
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#12 Posted on 6.7.05 2247.07
Reposted on: 6.7.12 2247.21
    Originally posted by BigSteve
    Question about the Black Sox. Am I correct that Shoeless Joe admitted to taking money to fix games but didn't actually admit to having fixed games?


Pretty much. He did admit to taking money, then, after demanding MORE money eventually tried to turn in his throw-mates, only to have Comiskey ignore him.

Jackson had some pretty good numbers for the series, despite his admission that he only "poked at the ball" in key situations. There were many accounts of him making bad throws or throwing to the wrong base duting the series...plus there were three (I think thats the number) triples hit to LEFT FIELD during the series (how many times do you even see ONE), which shouldn't have happened with one of the greatest left fielders at the time playing there.

Jackson gets the sympathy vote for being a hick rebelling against the evil Comiskey. Bill James likened Jackson sympathizers to women who go to murder trials and fall in love with the defendant.
Corajudo
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#13 Posted on 7.7.05 0745.18
Reposted on: 7.7.12 0746.02
Jackson had some pretty good numbers for the series, despite his admission that he only "poked at the ball" in key situations.

Here's an old Rob Neyer column on Shoeless Joe: http://espn.go.com/classic/s/2001/0730/1232950.html

Above the points already made in this thread, he also explains why Jackson's hitting statistics in the Series were empty.

Not that anyone asked for my opinion or particularly cares, but I sincerely hope that this book isn't going to be used to promote Shoeless Joe for the Hall or attempt to portray him as a sympathetic character in any way, shape or form.
pieman
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#14 Posted on 7.7.05 0855.41
Reposted on: 7.7.12 0856.28
    Originally posted by Corajudo
    Not that anyone asked for my opinion or particularly cares, but I sincerely hope that this book isn't going to be used to promote Shoeless Joe for the Hall or attempt to portray him as a sympathetic character in any way, shape or form.


I agree with that sentiment. Whether he was an ignorant hick or not, he didn't try his best in the Series and he got paid to not try his best. How people still view him as a sympathetic figure is confounding.
JoshMann
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#15 Posted on 7.7.05 0901.20
Reposted on: 7.7.12 0901.30
I'd be curious to know where the author got his initial survey data from.

And put me down as another yes, btw.
Hokienautic
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#16 Posted on 7.7.05 0950.59
Reposted on: 7.7.12 0951.02
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    I'd be curious to know where the author got his initial survey data from.

    And put me down as another yes, btw.


He's a member of an online Black Sox group and a SABR member. He said it's from discussions in his Black Sox group mostly.

My gut feeling is that it's more that this group of people who know everything about the Black Sox consider that since most people don't know the level of detail they do, it means they don't really know about the Black Sox. It's likely he's painting "not knowing the intimate details" as just "not knowing." Short surveys here and a couple other places easily confirm that most people have at least heard of the Black Sox and know the basics. Thanks all.
ekedolphin
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#17 Posted on 7.7.05 2058.08
Reposted on: 7.7.12 2058.09
I've read about the subject, and I've seen Field of Dreams but not Eight Men Out, surprisingly enough. I'm more than casually familiar with it, but I'm not familiar with all the little details.

Um, if this helps you at all, I'm glad. Good luck with the book... although I'm not sure I necessarily would have picked a subject that's already so well-documented-- unless y'all have something new to add, or the book is being written to introduce the subject to casual fans who may not have heard about it.
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