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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - TNA to go head to head with RAW's first hour?
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cfgb
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#1 Posted on 28.5.05 1554.23
Reposted on: 28.5.12 1556.22
The Between The Ropes radio show is saying that TNA is going to be announcing a deal where immediately following Slammiversary, they are going to start airing shows on Monday nights between 8:00-10:00pm on WGN.

Between The Ropes is of course a semi-credible source - so I'll take the blind leap of faith and figure they're on to something.

I doubt this will have much of an impact on RAW's ratings, but it may drag in some of the wrestling fans who are turned off by the WWE in general.

I wouldn't bet on them scoring anything higher than WCW's worst days though.

Let the discussion begin.
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OMEGA
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#2 Posted on 28.5.05 1635.50
Reposted on: 28.5.12 1638.48
There are still significant issues needed to be worked out. It is not a guarantee there will even be a deal, but most likely there will be as there have been negotiations on the different issues all week.

Again, when the deal is done, the word will be put out immediately

-- Dave Meltzer


If it does happen, this could be interesting. I don't think this is gonna' spark a second Monday night war or anything, but it'll be fun to have two wrestling shows to watch on Monday Nights again.

While WGN is a weaker network, the timeslot is MUCH stronger, so I hope this means growth for TNA, at least in the long run.
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#3 Posted on 28.5.05 1737.51
Reposted on: 28.5.12 1741.10
I'm very curious to see what WWE does with their programming within the next year, and this just adds another winkle to the fabric.

IT would appear that Vince is going to lose at least one of the two B-shows, thus eliminating the reason for a certain number of matches at the Monday/Tuesday filmings. With that in mind, what's to keep Vince from decided to "keep an edge" and simply work with USA to move RAW to 8 as well? TNA's only advantage at the moment would be to have that hour to entice fans to stay with them. With RAW in competition from the start, WWE would definitely have the advantage.

That's not even to speak of what you would have to do with Smackdown eventually. I would not be surprised at all if WWE decides to keep the seperate brands, but move to the "supershow" structure, eliminating the B-show matches and film both shows in one night. With careful editing and cueing, you could film both in the same evening and cut back on a second day's filming.

Pure speculation, of course. Oddly enough, this is actually making me more keen on watching the WWE programs just to see where they go, than any interest in watching TNA.
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#4 Posted on 28.5.05 2257.37
Reposted on: 28.5.12 2259.02
Well let's see right now, or last week i should say, they had a Friday afternoon show. Now they might get a Monday Night show? Who cares if it's up against WWE for one hour, it will get more people watching just because it's on at night. Also Monday is really "the night" for wrestling ever since the Monday Night Wars so it's a good night for their show. And going against them head to head is a good move too. Maybe some people will want to watch wrestling all night and they'll tune into TNA for a hour and then switch to WWE. And then maybe once they do that TNA will be interesting enough for them to stick around for TNA's second hour, which would have the main event of the show, rather than WWE's opening hour of unimportant stuff. Personally I think it's the most perfect time slot they could get.
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#5 Posted on 28.5.05 2319.58
Reposted on: 28.5.12 2327.21
    Originally posted by Snookum
    With that in mind, what's to keep Vince from decided to "keep an edge" and simply work with USA to move RAW to 8 as well?


The public's expectation of L&O:SVU at 8 p.m. about six nights a week. And I'm one of them.

Olivia Benson is YOUR detective in peril.
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#6 Posted on 29.5.05 0006.43
Reposted on: 29.5.12 0009.29
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    The public's expectation of L&O:SVU at 8 p.m. about six nights a week. And I'm one of them.


Opps. Forgot about that.

Well, if they ever feel that USA is taking a hit there from TNA, they could always move it then. It's not like repeats last forever as big rating-grabbers. (Something SPIKE needs to learn.)
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#7 Posted on 29.5.05 0012.09
Reposted on: 29.5.12 0013.40
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by Snookum
      With that in mind, what's to keep Vince from decided to "keep an edge" and simply work with USA to move RAW to 8 as well?


    The public's expectation of L&O:SVU at 8 p.m. about six nights a week. And I'm one of them.


I'm as big an SVU fan as anybody, but can anyone really get upset if USA decides to only run the show fifteen times a week instead of sixteen?
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#8 Posted on 29.5.05 0224.06
Reposted on: 29.5.12 0225.31
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by Snookum
      With that in mind, what's to keep Vince from decided to "keep an edge" and simply work with USA to move RAW to 8 as well?


    The public's expectation of L&O:SVU at 8 p.m. about six nights a week. And I'm one of them.

    Olivia Benson is YOUR detective in peril.


Hey, kinda like how this move kinda means TNA is YOUR promotion in peril. Translation: We don't get WGN and I don't have the pull to do anything about it, like get DirecTV. How many homes get it, anyway? Curious as to those numbers vis-a-vis something like Spike.
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#9 Posted on 29.5.05 0843.37
Reposted on: 29.5.12 0845.28
    Originally posted by drjayphd
    How many homes get it, anyway? Curious as to those numbers vis-a-vis something like Spike.


From the Torch:

"WGN ... is currently available in 57 million cable homes and is part of the basic subscription package of DirecTV ($41.95 per month) and the second tier ($30.99 per month) of Dish Network. By comparison, Spike TV is available in 85 million homes, USA in 86 million homes, and TBS in 87 million homes."

So, a nearly 30 million difference in home count.
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#10 Posted on 29.5.05 0948.06
Reposted on: 29.5.12 0948.34
I don't know about other places, but it will hardly ever air in its announced timeslot here in Chicago. WGN broadcasts Cubs/White Sox/Bulls games. I'll be surprised if they air more than half the time in their slot.
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#11 Posted on 29.5.05 1026.25
Reposted on: 29.5.12 1026.25
Yeah, but when the new seasons start for those teams, WGN just won't pick up any games in that timeslot.

Very simple.

And since when did WGN broadcast more than 10 Bulls games in a year? I don't ever remember seeing a Bulls game on WGN on weekdays anyways. I always remember them being on weekends.

And many MLB teams have most Monday's off.
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#12 Posted on 29.5.05 1056.45
Reposted on: 29.5.12 1059.01
I've read that WGN is in approximately the same number of home as TNT was in 1995 when Nitro debuted, so it's not like nobody gets the channel.

Hopefully with a two hour slot, TNA will make Impact (or whatever this new show will be called) more like Raw. And when I say "more like Raw," I don't mean twenty minutes of promos at the beginning of every show or cheesy, stupid backstage vignettes. What I mean is that they need to give people a reason to feel that they need to see the show. If I miss Raw, even if it isn't a good show that week,I know that you've missed a significant progression in storylines and probably one or two longer matches that might have been fairly entertaining. Nowadays, if I miss Impact, which I routinely do because of its crappy timeslot, I don't real care. I knew that because every match has a ten minute time limit, I haven't missed any good matches, and I probably haven't missed any great angles or promos. TNA does some good stuff that I'd like to see Raw do, but all in all TNA really needs to change its TV format if they wanna compete. Another thing that they need to do is tour. I know it might be a money loser, but having your show in a TV studio is gonna look bush league compared to WWE running shows in MSG or the Staples Center or wherever else.

(edited by BigSteve on 29.5.05 1157)
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#13 Posted on 29.5.05 1106.53
Reposted on: 29.5.12 1107.29
Should TNA get this timespot, there is a huge difference between where they are now and where WCW was heading into Labor Day weekend '95. Although up to the point of the debut of Nitro WCW was booked like crap, they did have many name recognizable stars on the roster: Sting, Hogan, Flair, Savage etc. Also, WCW and its predecessors had the advantage of a two hour time block on another Turner network for over 2 decades in order to build up a fan base that could be transferable from Saturday Night to Monday Night. TNA does not have that advantage. And, there is a big difference going from 1 hour taped to 2 hours live. At the point of the debut of Nitro, WCW was going from 2 hours taped to 1 hour live. Also, it is highly doubtful Vince makes the same mistakes in '05 that he made in '95. After being through the wars once, it would be tough to surprise Vince in the same manner Bischoff was able to in the early days of Nitro.
Now, could say a Matt Hardy arrive in TNA and become the misused midcarder that Austin was and develop into a star? Unlikely, but theoretically possible. But, I think TNA would need an Angle or a Michaels type to get the Holy Shit type reaction that Nitro was able to build up. Stealing a Bob Holly or Maven wouldn't set hearts a flutter.

(edited by redsoxnation on 29.5.05 1207)
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#14 Posted on 29.5.05 1152.47
Reposted on: 29.5.12 1155.46
    Originally posted by spf
    I don't know about other places, but it will hardly ever air in its announced timeslot here in Chicago. WGN broadcasts Cubs/White Sox/Bulls games. I'll be surprised if they air more than half the time in their slot.


In talking about this on Wrestling Observer Live a couple weeks ago, Dave Meltzer said the reason WGN was interested in TNA was because they're the WB affiliate for Chicago, and they need programming to air nationally in primetime while they're airing WB shows in Chicago. They can't air the WB shows nationally because it would hurt other WB affiliates.

Basically, if TNA does end up on WGN, it wouldn't air in the Chicago market anyway, at least in that timeslot.
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#15 Posted on 29.5.05 1335.14
Reposted on: 29.5.12 1335.22
    Originally posted by spf
    I don't know about other places, but it will hardly ever air in its announced timeslot here in Chicago. WGN broadcasts Cubs/White Sox/Bulls games. I'll be surprised if they air more than half the time in their slot.


The Cubs do play most of their games during the glorious daytime anyway, and WGN seems to mostly show Sox games on the weekends, at least as far as I've noticed.
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#16 Posted on 29.5.05 1507.55
Reposted on: 29.5.12 1510.45
Gimmick: "Yeah, but when the new seasons start for those teams, WGN just won't pick up any games in that timeslot."

Well I betcha they will, but even after reading the explanation of the WGN Chicago/WGN National difference like five separate times I'm not going to try to paraphrase it, so I'll leave that to user TheCubsFan.

RSN: "Should TNA get this timespot, there is a huge difference between where they are now and where WCW was heading into Labor Day weekend '95."

Indeed. The head-to-head comparisons are really funny when you lay them out ...

"Although up to the point of the debut of Nitro WCW was booked like crap, they did have many name recognizable stars on the roster: Sting, Hogan, Flair, Savage etc."

The biggest name in wrestling and the two of the three other biggest stars of the '80s vs. Jeff Jarrett, the Hardys, and Kevin Nash ...

"Also, WCW and its predecessors had the advantage of a two hour time block on another Turner network for over 2 decades in order to build up a fan base that could be transferable from Saturday Night to Monday Night."

... WCW Sat Night drawing I'm guessing about a 2.5 on TBS compared to TNA's .15 on FSN; WCW PPVs drawing more than 200,000 buys compared to TNA's 30,000?

Nevertheless, everyone in the thread who's said 'forget about comparison with WWE, this is still a lot better for TNA,' is right.


Another thing about Vince is whenever he starts to get annoyed or the slightest bit concerned, he'll become Predator Vince without batting an eye. See signing the Dudleys and Tazz in 1999 right when ECW got on national TV, or signing Curt Hennig in 2002 for no real reason right after the XWF made him the focal point of their tapings. A.J. and Daniels have been locked up, but how many other important people on the roster are cherry pickable? Even if Vince doesn't have much use for somebody, he might just feel benevolent enough to offer them real life money to work for him. As a matter of fact ...

    Originally posted by DVDVR message board poster Marcos paraphrasing the WON which I have not received and won't until Tuesday
    Just read the new Observer and apparently Laurinatis has been told to hurry up and sign CM Punk, Samoa Joe, and Bryan Danielson. This is in the wake of Meltzer last week reporting that TNA was wanting to sign all three.


(edited by JustinShapiro on 29.5.05 1702)
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#17 Posted on 29.5.05 1801.11
Reposted on: 29.5.12 1802.14
    Originally posted by spf
    I don't know about other places, but it will hardly ever air in its announced timeslot here in Chicago. WGN broadcasts Cubs/White Sox/Bulls games. I'll be surprised if they air more than half the time in their slot.


Most everybody else get the other WGN (non-WB) feed.

I like it. Since we get WGN on an east coast feed, I can watch Impact from 5-7, then wait for Raw at 9. Kinda like in the days TNT had only an east coast feed.

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#18 Posted on 30.5.05 1003.18
Reposted on: 30.5.12 1010.14
    Originally posted by Snookum
    I would not be surprised at all if WWE decides to keep the seperate brands, but move to the "supershow" structure, eliminating the B-show matches and film both shows in one night. With careful editing and cueing, you could film both in the same evening and cut back on a second day's filming


Surely the gate revenue makes filming the second show worthwhile?
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#19 Posted on 30.5.05 1208.02
Reposted on: 30.5.12 1208.15
    Originally posted by Jonny_English
    Surely the gate revenue makes filming the second show worthwhile?


Good point, but you could counter with the ability to use that second day for more houseshows around the country that do not involve the cost of television. Saying that, I realize that houseshows have hit a rather large slump lately, especially for the Smackdown brand.

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#20 Posted on 30.5.05 1359.19
Reposted on: 30.5.12 1404.58

    Gimmick: "Yeah, but when the new seasons start for those teams, WGN just won't pick up any games in that timeslot."

    Well I betcha they will, but even after reading the explanation of the WGN Chicago/WGN National difference like five separate times I'm not going to try to paraphrase it, so I'll leave that to user TheCubsFan.


(so tiring to explain the same thing five different places.)

Cubs games get 10 ratings (at least) locally and pretty much pay for the whole station, so there's no way they're not going after a Cubs game for TNA.

HOWEVER, if you take a look at the Cubs Broadcast Schedule, you'll notice WGN only carries Monday (and other weekday) night games during the summer, and even then it's a bit rare. Same thing for White Sox and Bulls. WB doesn't want them pre-empting their WB programming, so most of the weekday primetime stuff is shifted to another local station in a time sharing deal, or bought by the local sports net. TNA's a beneficary of this policy, but it's not being done wiht TNA in mind.

Monday night baseball on WGN, left this season

06/06 7pm (vs TOR)
07/04 6pm (@t ATL)
08/08 7pm (vs CIN)

(there are no White Sox games Monday night.)

A TV taping always gets more revenue than a hour show. A B-Show with wrestling always gets twice the rating as a B-Show with clips. 4 hour tapings kill fans and you'd consistently have a half empty(-ier) stadium by early in the SD! tapings, when many have sen all the wrestling they really wanted to see.
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