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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Thou shalt be christian, or you'll get an F
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Eddie Famous
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#21 Posted on 31.5.05 1348.52
Reposted on: 31.5.12 1349.16
    Originally posted by too-old-now
    who pays for them? Joe Taxpayer. It's always been disturbing to me that new courses get added every year for which new, expensive textbooks, are needed.


God forbid school becomes interesting enough for children to attend and learn. Written like a person without children.

    Originally posted by too-old-now
    But too often the school board operates under the assumption that because it'd be nice if they had x, they should just ask the taxpayers for it.


Who else should they ask? The government? Who gets money from...taxpayers? It'd be nice if the school district had history texts that went further than 1960, but we don't want to bother anyone about the cost. Ridiculous.

    Originally posted by too-old-now
    One of my favorite analogies about adding a course to curriculum is space exploration. Many people agree this is a worthwhile topic for students to learn about. They might learn some if they were given some old textbooks, or and/or newspaper clippings. They might learn more if they can use online references. They likely would learn an awful lot if there was a field trip to NASA, if they could see the actual moon rocks. They would learn even more if they had the NASA sized budget to build and launch a MARS explorer satelite. It is just not practical.Even if resources are limited, it might not be a good idea to give them rocks from the parking lot and tell them to pretend they came from the moon.


I hope you realize how incredibly selfish and insane this is. You could save even more money by not letting any kid in your school district get past second grade and keep 'em workin' down on the farm. Barefoot. Besides, what grade school has entire courses on space exploration?

Education is what keeps countries civilized. Boo-hoo it also costs money.
too-old-now
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#22 Posted on 31.5.05 1709.20
Reposted on: 31.5.12 1710.03
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    God forbid school becomes interesting enough for children to attend and learn. Written like a person without children.


I am a proud parent of all my children, and I am very active in multiple nieces and nephews' lives (I help raise 5 of them despite a medical condition). I realize the impact they still have (and had) on our local school system. Every subject won't be interesting to everyone. Attendence and learning go hand in hand and have VERY little to do with curriculum, but more to do with family involvement. Learning doesn't just happen in school.

    Originally posted by Eddie Famous

    It'd be nice if the school district had history texts that went further than 1960, but we don't want to bother anyone about the cost. Ridiculous.




Outdated history books are always a problem. But just because it'd be great if we could send our kids to see a Shakespeare play on Broadway, doesn't mean we can afford it or should even ask for it. Far too often taxpayers get asked for double digit increases, it gets voted down, then a budget is "cut" but a sizeable increase still gets applied.

    Originally posted by Eddie Famous

    I hope you realize how incredibly selfish and insane this is. You could save even more money by not letting any kid in your school district get past second grade and keep 'em workin' down on the farm. Barefoot. Besides, what grade school has entire courses on space exploration?

    Education is what keeps countries civilized. Boo-hoo it also costs money.



Of course education costs money. But the money spent HAS to have limits. When courses are determined, the cost of them has to be considered before they are determined acceptable.

I am NOT trying to suggest we cancel all school programs that cost money. I am only trying to point out that schools that don't consider ALL the costs when developing curriculum are not acknowledging the impact to the taxpayer.

My analogy on space exploration is useful primarily to show how ridiculously extreme both sides can get. This is not a rehash of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" nor is it a request for the moon, then settling for the stars.

We cannot save money by keepin the young-uns barefoot down on the farm because of the No Child Left Behind Act (which has many problems of its own), nor would I want to.

I'm not suggesting we spend nothing on education, but I am in favor of spending responsibly.
messenoir
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#23 Posted on 2.6.05 1408.44
Reposted on: 2.6.12 1412.27
On the contrary, I would say school officials do consider all the costs to taxpayers their programs cost, because every time they want to spend a dime, some angry taxpayer is standing up and yelling about it.

Our school officials in Columbia, MO (a college town, and this one that should be more concerned about our schools) are pretty much permanently gun shy about spending any tax money brought about by the repeat attacks of people who's mantra is "well, I support the schools and all, but they spend to much of my money" but who seem to be really saying "it's money come hell or high water and I don't care what school programs are cut."

I've gone line by line through the spending of our schools, and I can say it's very pared down, and yet people still complain. Hell, in Eldon, MO, voters approved a multi-million dollar city water park, yet turned down a tax-increase to expand the high school library. Having been in that library, I can attest to its utter crapiness and feel sorry for any child trying to find a book.

This is the sort of me-first mentality schools must deal with on a consistent basis, and I would therefore feel very confident in saying they think very much about you the taxpayer before they try to start any new program.
too-old-now
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#24 Posted on 3.6.05 1522.37
Reposted on: 3.6.12 1522.40
I have had the fortune to be able to make a living in 4 different states for periods exceeding 3 years, and in each of them I have become increasingly attentive to the local government/boards of education etc. From my limited experience, it varies dramatically depending where you live. Some towns/counties do what you suggest, and are very attentive to all the costs. Others don't seem to have a clue - all projects run over budget

It is simply too dismissive to suggest that those that advocate fiscal responsibility - spend only what the community can afford - are anti-education. Nobody likes to pay taxes, but people tend to accept the reality that education costs money when the school board communicates the requests to the community, and justifies the needs. The Boards that try to appeal to all of the diverse needs of the community, proposing reasonable compromise, tend to do better than those that try to appeal only to the segment of the population they think they can motivate to go out and vote.

drjayphd
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#25 Posted on 3.6.05 1645.59
Reposted on: 3.6.12 1648.17
Well, I think it's also an issue of average people generally not thinking about the effects of budget cuts. That just came up here (we don't have that section online, but out of five people, one or two actually gave a semi-coherent answer to the question of what they'd cut). It all seems to be an issue of thinking that money for education's good, but no one puts any thought into specifics.

Well, except for building the new high school. Think that's actually on time and under budget.
sweetroll
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#26 Posted on 3.6.05 2115.00
Reposted on: 3.6.12 2115.13
First Amendment issues aside -- FWIW, this probably checks out constitutionally -- I kinda got a kick out of this story. I haven't totally ruled out the possibility that these faculty members are just trying to push some buttons. If you know anything about South Florida, you know that Boca Raton might not be the first place Bible studies would go over well.

Disclaimer: I am a member of the implied demographic.
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