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The 7 - Movies & TV - Star Wars Memories
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Whitebacon
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#41 Posted on 13.5.05 0317.38
Reposted on: 13.5.12 0317.42
Padme is Padme, she was using a stand-in to look like the queen while she was around as one of the servants. I think.
Wolfram J. Paulovich
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#42 Posted on 13.5.05 0438.05
Reposted on: 13.5.12 0438.12
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Didn't know who cloned the clones, or what their purpose was.


Supposedly the clones were ordered by a Jedi Master named "Cipher Dias" or something. (Nice to see Lucas using that cool formula of Noun+Ethnic Name. I hope Episode III features characters like Master Oblivia-Chen.) But the Jedi Council never heard of this order. So here's my theory.

1. The clones are ordered created by a Jedi Master presumed dead. The Council doesn't know about it. It's a HUGE clone army.

2. The Trade Federation makes a big droid army. Their advisor? Darth Sidious, a.k.a. Senator Palpatine or Emperor-to-be.

When the droid threat becomes so bad that the Republic needs help, they call in the Clone Army. The thing is, both army's were Palpatine's to begin with.

To me, being a history wonk, this seems like a direct rip-off of the old hoary story of Hitler's rise to power. The story goes that some of Hitler's Brown Shirts (on orders) set fire to the German Parliament building (the Reichstag). Only they did so in a way that made people suspect that they were communists. Horror! Communists tried to burn down the Reichstag! Who will stop them? Well, who has always hated communists more than anyone else? Hitler! We must put him in charge immediately — and grant him emergency powers that strip away democracy!

So the way to read the Star Wars plot is this: Palpatine somehow sent out the order to create a clone army. Then he built up the droid threat against Naboo, creating an uproar that made him Chancellor. (What was Hitler's first governmental title? Chancellor of the Reichstag.) Then he had his own droid army threaten the Republic so badly that his own Clone army would be called in to defend, and he would be given even more power. So basically the military threat to and defense of the Republic is something he created. And he's in control.

There you go. At least, that's how I read it. I know my reading might seem a little tedious, but Lucas has often talked about how one of his purposes in creating this story was not only to talk about the Hero Myth but also to talk about how democracies are created and destroyed — indeed, how people in democracies often give up their freedom happily. I know I might be a little too fond of thinking this way, but there's a reason why they're called stormtroopers for God's sake. There's a reason why the Empire's three colors are gray, black and some silver. For a space cowboy serial, all the coloring and iconography come straight out of Triumph of the Will.

(edited by Jeb Tennyson Lund on 13.5.05 0546)
Spaceman Spiff
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#43 Posted on 13.5.05 0725.39
Reposted on: 13.5.12 0726.24

    So the way to read the Star Wars plot is this: Palpatine somehow sent out the order to create a clone army. Then he built up the droid threat against Naboo, creating an uproar that made him Chancellor. (What was Hitler's first governmental title? Chancellor of the Reichstag.) Then he had his own droid army threaten the Republic so badly that his own Clone army would be called in to defend, and he would be given even more power. So basically the military threat to and defense of the Republic is something he created. And he's in control.

That's exactly it. Palpatine's pulling all the strings to orchestrate his rise to power (right under the noses of the Jedi, even!), and it's been the most interesting storyline (IMO) in the prequels. Ian McDiarmid has been the MVP of the prequels (followed closely by McGregor). And, judging by the previews for Ep. 3, he looks to only be getting more awesome.

"Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?" D.A.M.N. Palpatine is the new Vader (so badass evil, he's cool).
JayJayDean
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#44 Posted on 13.5.05 0805.31
Reposted on: 13.5.12 0808.06
    Originally posted by The Thrill
    he showed remarkable ability for a 9-year-old w/ a bad haircut


Too bad it wasn't ACTING ability...
Greymarch
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#45 Posted on 13.5.05 1039.58
Reposted on: 13.5.12 1041.14
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
    Padme is Padme, she was using a stand-in to look like the queen while she was around as one of the servants. I think.


Or more completely: Padme is Queen Amidala. Padme Amidala. She used a decoy much of the time so that assassination attempts against her would fail, and so she could keep an eye on those pesky jedi.
Hogan's My Dad
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#46 Posted on 13.5.05 2110.48
Reposted on: 13.5.12 2110.51
Thank-you, sirs.

So did Anakin boink the actual queen or just the queen's stand-in/decoy.
Jaguar
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#47 Posted on 13.5.05 2149.23
Reposted on: 13.5.12 2151.00
The actual Queen.

-Jaguar
Freeway
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#48 Posted on 13.5.05 2227.49
Reposted on: 13.5.12 2227.52
SPOILERS AHOY, KIDDOS!


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read


Sidious (Palpatine) got together with the Trade Federation folks and told 'em to blockade Naboo. The Republic (headed by Chancellor Valorum) sent Qui-Gon (and his apprentice, Obi-Wan) to settle things. Sidious told the Trade fellas to off the Jedis and invade the planet.

Now, IF the killing order had actually worked, then Palpatine (the Senator from Naboo, mind you) could decry in the Senate the need for new leadership and become Chancellor THAT WAY, especially since (as Count Dooku says in Episode II) that the majority of the Senate is under Sidious' influence anyway. So, if the Jedis survive or not, Palpatine made himself Supreme Chancellor. And if the Trade Federation folks actually succeed in making Amidala sign the treaty, Palpatine can STILL decry the situation and become Chancellor with an even larger sympathy vote.

At this point, Dooku leaves the Jedi Order (but not after erasing the location of Kamino, the location of the clones, from the Archives). Dooku/Tyranus locates & recruits Jango Fett for the cloning process, and it's on. Flash forward to ten years later and Dooku/Tyranus has used HIS Sith influence to get others to join his Confederate group, while Sidious/Palpatine uses his to get the Senate to do what he wants. All Sidious/Palpatine has to do is to get Dooku to get Fett to hire the female bounty hunter from Episode II to try to kill Amidala. This causes the most vocal opponent to the clone army (and Palpatine's basic unbridled power) to head home to hide out, and allows Palpatine to basically railroad Jar Jar into making the whole "emergency powers" measure look like HIS idea.

And it's arguable whether or not Palpatine knew of Anakin's affections for Amidala. Since they became close over the friggin' DECADE Anakin was Obi-Wan's padawan, it's pretty much a sure thing that they shared some personal stories and such, and since Anakin said in Episode II that he'd dreamt of Amidala every night since Episode I it's pretty damn possible that he mentioned it in passing to his mentor Palpatine. So, in putting the hit out on Amidala and forcing her to go back to Naboo with Anakin, Palpatine not only removed his political opposition...but also put his pupil in a situation that'd most likely involve him breaking strict Jedi rules, and eventually heading down the road to the Dark Side.
Sean Carless
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#49 Posted on 14.5.05 1739.51
Reposted on: 14.5.12 1743.38

    SPOILERS: don’t read if you don’t want the plot ruined for you


    Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read


    From what I've heard, Anakin knows that Padme is pregnant. His whole issue with turning to the darkside in the first place is to prevent Padme's death,(during child birth) which he keeps having premonitions about.(And as in AOTC, his visions usually come true.)

    It's through this paranoia of losing Padme that he is apparently seduced to the Darkside by Palpatine, who convinces Anakin that he, as a Sith Master has “learned” the power to prevent death, and will teach Anakin this power. It's through this revelation that Anakin becomes conflicted.

    And that's the irony of Vader. He's always been about "control." Almost completely obsessed with it, really. This is what make's Yoda's original words of "I sense much fear in him" so prophetic. Anakin fears loss of control. Loss of his mother, and Loss of Padme. And it’s also why he truly believes in the politics of the Empire itself.


Freeway
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#50 Posted on 14.5.05 2321.09
Reposted on: 14.5.12 2322.14
Just finished watching A New Hope again.

Some thoughts on the two trilogys.

[1] There's a LOT of parallel storytelling. The entire original trilogy is about the rise of Luke Skywalker & the return of the Republic (and the Jedi), while the prequels are about the fall of Anakin Skywalker and the rise of the Empire (and the return of Sith).

[2a] Final scene in Episode IV is a celebration/medal ceremony with all the good guys in attendance. Final scene in Episode I is a celebration with all the good guys in attendance.

[2b] Final shot in Episode V is Luke, Leia and the droids on a spaceship looking at a nebula. Final shot in Episode II is Anakin & Padme getting married (with the droids in attendance) and the four of them look off towards the sunset in pretty much the exact same scene composition.


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read

[3] Final scene in Episode VI featured the ghosts of Anakin, Obi-Wan & Yoda standing side-by-side. Final scene in Episode III reportedly features Vader, the Emperor and Tarkin in almost the same composition as the last scene in Episode VI.


[4] Of course, the titles are neatly paralleling, too. The Phantom Menace & A New Hope, Attack of the Clones & The Empire Strikes Back, Revenge of the Sith & Return of the Jedi.

I get to see this on Wednesday night. I'm jacked.
Stilton
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#51 Posted on 15.5.05 1253.14
Reposted on: 15.5.12 1259.01
A nerdy questions about Star Wars:

How is it that they can replace Annakin's severed arm with a cybernetic hand, but they couldn't reattach the arm with micro-surgery? Wouldn't it be more complicated to integrate the living tissue with mechanical/electronic components, than reattach the original arm?

In "Empire" when Luke loses his hand, I imagine the hand is truly lost, as it fell down that large shaft beneath Cloud City, but Annakin's arm, when Dooku cuts it off in "Clones", would have been just lying on the ground in the hangar. They could have salvaged it, no?
Pizza Delivery Jones
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#52 Posted on 15.5.05 1516.08
Reposted on: 15.5.12 1518.19
JTL: "Supposedly the clones were ordered by a Jedi Master named "Cipher Dias" or something."

It's Sifo-Dyas. And I always thought the name came from the fact that the aliens on Kamino couldn't properly pronounce Sidious. Most of the speculation has Sifo-Dyas being an alias that Dooku used...
Freeway
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#53 Posted on 15.5.05 1540.04
Reposted on: 15.5.12 1540.43
    Originally posted by Stilton
    A nerdy questions about Star Wars:

    How is it that they can replace Annakin's severed arm with a cybernetic hand, but they couldn't reattach the arm with micro-surgery? Wouldn't it be more complicated to integrate the living tissue with mechanical/electronic components, than reattach the original arm?

    In "Empire" when Luke loses his hand, I imagine the hand is truly lost, as it fell down that large shaft beneath Cloud City, but Annakin's arm, when Dooku cuts it off in "Clones", would have been just lying on the ground in the hangar. They could have salvaged it, no?


I was always of the mind that lightsabre wounds are cauterized, so that it would be extremely painful/unsafe to try to forcefully open them in order to reattach limbs.

Of course, watching the old films (especially Empire) I noticed that some wounds from sabres spray blood, so either they're inconsistent or my guess is wrong.
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#54 Posted on 15.5.05 1610.05
Reposted on: 15.5.12 1610.43

    Of course, watching the old films (especially Empire) I noticed that some wounds from sabres spray blood, so either they're inconsistent or my guess is wrong

You're right, only they didn't decide on that until the prequels. They went back and got rid of the blood in the Cantina scene to match up.
Wolfram J. Paulovich
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#55 Posted on 15.5.05 1705.25
Reposted on: 15.5.12 1706.41
    Originally posted by Pizza Delivery Jones
    It's Sifo-Dyas. And I always thought the name came from the fact that the aliens on Kamino couldn't properly pronounce Sidious. Most of the speculation has Sifo-Dyas being an alias that Dooku used...

I assumed that the last explanation there was the case. And thank you for the spelling. I feel better about the name now. I kept hearing it as "cipher" and was counting it as part of the grand sci-fi tradition of nouns and adjectives being used as "clever" names. "Cipher Dias," get it? He's a cipher carrying out someone else's orders. Maybe they're Darth Sidious' insidious orders! I sure hope that Chancellor Valorem doesn't pass an ad valorem tax!

God, I hate that crap. For every polysyllabic name like that in science fiction, there ought to be a really simple counterpart name inserted in the plot. "Salacious Crumb... meet my associate, Boring Loaf. I am the pilot of the Year Bird. That's the ship that once made a beer run in about 15 minutes. In TRAFFIC."
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#56 Posted on 15.5.05 2040.51
Reposted on: 15.5.12 2042.20
I did a search on it online, and there are several theories, but the most reasonable says this. Sifo-Dyas was a real Jedi. This backs up the fact that Obi-Wan recognizes his name. Sifo-Dyas couldn't have been a Sith pretending to be Jedi, because someone would have noticed that. According to the book "Labyrinth of Evil", Sifo-Dyas was killed by Count Dooku in order to prove himself to Darth Sidious, probably right after Darth Maul died in TPM. That's all that matters about him, really. Then, after he was dead, someone pretended to be him while talking to the cloners on Kamino. Probably Dooku, since we know that he (calling himself Tyranous) was the one who recruited Jango Fett to be the clone host.

Other, more oddball theories suggest that either Qui-Gonn or Darth Maul (before they died) were the ones who ordered the clone army.
Those who mention Qui-Gonn point out that maybe Dooku was telling the truth at the end of episode 2, that Qui-Gonn was on his side.

But that's nothing in comparison to seeing people argue about whether or not the Storm Troopers in the original trilogy are clones.
GRL
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#57 Posted on 15.5.05 2212.56
Reposted on: 15.5.12 2222.29
So, my Star Wars memories, as Episode III inches closer.

It was the opening night of "Return of the Jedi," and my birth mother and I went to see it. I was... 5, maybe? I loved it, loved every single minute of it, and when we were leaving the theater, the local news was there interviewing people on what they thought of the film, and somehow they asked yours truly to give some thoughts. So somewhere there exists a videotape of a five year-old GRL telling the evening news that RotJ was "Great!"
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